Just for the record, I never said Rachel was broken. And I doubt anyone thinks she's anywhere near top tier after the nerfs. Also I play Vanessa in FS. :v
Rachel nerfs
- Thread starter vINv
- Start date
Argentus
Well-Known Member
Slightly off topic, i also used Vanessa during the short time I tried vf. Loved her, but...what is, low, top, middle? What's her reputation?
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
I don't got a problem with it though, since at the core of things I like to play defense in fighters. I need to work on holding better if I wanna keep playing her though.
And this same community, not just DOA, tries to talk balance and how this game is broken while this other game isn't. Our most popular game is a broken mess. I laugh at people trying to talk balance for it like they are some expert.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
I would have been down for the Rikuto nerf ideas ('cause Rikuto, 12+ yrs of experience, yeah he knows what he's doing) The stomp should have been made a just frame, that was only +8-9 on wake-up, the follow-ups would have been easier to see, and then... then the move would have been moved to -5 or -6 on whiff, so she can't follow-up, but she doesn't get completely blown up for doing one of her moves that make it easier to keep offense up... 'cause idk if you've noticed, but she struggles A LOT if you're not on offense. And the just frame wouldn't have been some easy mode swap and shop just frame, we're talking 1-2 frame just frame,so not only would her vortex not be so absurdly braindead, but she also would not have been rewarded for doing something so simple... What did you guys think about that compared to the other nerfs. Oh yeah, and btw they nerfed the 4PP because if you didn't delay the string, you got both hits for free, now I guess the addition of letting someone counter the string gives her an additional setup/mixup so it is kind of a nerf depending on how you played Rachel.
BIG CORRECTION(my bad): Rikuto only said that the whiff stomp should be made negative enough on frames where it can't be followed up on, not the just frame idea, that comment was made by someone else iin reaction to Rikuto saying that Rachel's offense was braindead... but still what do you guys think of that compared to gimmick Rachel 2.0, 'cause that's kinda what you're doing, if you not TRYING to turtle with her sack of shit spacing, and lackluster defensive options....
Last edited:
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
That nerf sounds better than what TN did.
o_YUE_o
Well-Known Member
I was picturing it in my mind. I'd have to agree.
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
eh just frames. Never been much for arbitrary execution barriers or using them for balance.
TBH the situation Rikuto described is what we have now actually. Aside from Rachel having no real down attack, if you go for airthrow, 9P, 2K, and you whiff, you're only -3. I need to calculate how much damage you miss out on by not finishing the combo, but I'm sure it's miniscule and I need to start using it in the future.
I try to play Rachel like Leon- get in close, and stay in close. I wish her guard breaks were all + on block, but from what I see everybody and their momma loves to mash out after those guard breaks (psychological thing I guess?) so I'm thinking there's definite hold or step opportunities there, I've just never got around to implementing them.
Dash-in 2H+K works well as a replacement for 66K.
I still land plenty of stomps, too... I don't think things are so bad.
o_YUE_o
Well-Known Member
You might wanna help the guy I fought yesterday then...
Guy: I'M THE BEST RACHEL! No one can escape the stomp of doom.
Me: *my turn is up*
Guy: Pfft... this guy's a fake B-Rank...
Me: *says nothing and back techs every stomp cause he didnt set up for them correctly.*
Me: So... what was that thing about your "stomp of doom"?
Guy: *leaves*
KingGhidorah
Well-Known Member
He would have quit mid match if he were in my lobby lmao. The power of WATAHHHHH!!!! IS... TOO... DAMN... STROOOONG!!!!
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
You can't patch stupid.
Nobus3r1
Member
What are we defining as minuscule damage differences? For example:
NH 8K 7P T 9P 2K (whiff) = 58 damage
NH 8K 7P T 6PKP = 74 damage
41236T 6PP T 9P 2K(whiff) = 68 damage
41236T 6PP T 6PKP = 84 damage
Just finishing the combo is 16 more damage (haven't tested every possible variation; obviously) and leaves us at neutral vs. less damage and likely (against opponents with a functioning brain) being left at disadvantage. I mean obviously if the person is never tech rolling you should stomp them out like a brush fire but I don't see that working against competent competition.
I play her and I'll still say that she's top tier. She's just amazing.
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
That's why you don't stomp them... once they start back teching you 9P and then you just walk forward. (Ooh, I love Rachel's forward walk animation.)
The only issue I could probably think of is if the stomp is so slow that it can be back teched on reaction... but from what I've heard people say (and from what player Beautiful-Nature has hit me with before) it's straight up 50/50, stomp or walk forward, and you only need to go after that 16-18 damage if you need to finish it.
4P is still fast. 4PP was slowed down. As said before that's a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
I actually do this lol. If they think you're going to stomp they back tech so she's still got the advantage to do what she used to do with the stomp.
The threat is still there, it's just not definite anymore.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
The only downside to the stomp, is the fact that the move is vastly reactable offline... 21i while you're on the ground removes the fears once caused by the ol' 16i stomp. I was playing with my friend from Japan a few days ago, and the matches were HELL; Rachel is so absurdly reactable offline that I almost quit playing... I actually did the setup that most Rachels use (9P -> 2K) and it basically got watched out for... online it may be harder to spot, but TBH all you have to do is watch as Rachel lifts her big ass leg (looking like she's trying to shake a kid off) before she stomps you and you're good... but that doesn't mean we can still try I guess, but boy... when I tell you nothing worked, I MEAN NOTHING WORKED... you can't free cancel if you expect to win, or keep offense up, against any character with a viable mid, and let's not forget that you can't do anything about lows but try to parry and punish all of them in hopes that you don't get caught with too many 50/50s.
I think to play Rachel now, you have to literally know everything in the game, you have to constantly and consistently punish and parry everything, to keep up on damage output, your movement has to be well polished so that you don't take any unnecessary damage while trying to get in, you have to do a lot of single poke-to-grab setups (P->T, 6P->T, 3P->T), and you also have to play kinda... gimmicky (with a straightforward character with, no gimmicks I might add... well, maybe not, you can start up some gimmicks with the special SS.) I'm not saying that Rachel is unplayable, it's just that you literally have to be better than everyone else to play her...
Last edited:
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
You didn't record it? 
I would have liked to see...
The tick throwing I thought was essential since 1.03... CH 3P, 3P is very fast, too (though I know I'm saying to just rely on one thing...)
I'm used to memorizing punishment (though not having all the frames up on the wiki makes things a little harder). And you have 2H+K too! There's a move just like that in SC, and it bugs the crap out of everyone...
Well if anything it's a good experience to have. A big stimulus for adaptation... so playing Rachel makes you stronger! mirite guys?
guys?
I would have liked to see...The tick throwing I thought was essential since 1.03... CH 3P, 3P is very fast, too (though I know I'm saying to just rely on one thing...)
I'm used to memorizing punishment (though not having all the frames up on the wiki makes things a little harder). And you have 2H+K too! There's a move just like that in SC, and it bugs the crap out of everyone...
Well if anything it's a good experience to have. A big stimulus for adaptation... so playing Rachel makes you stronger! mirite guys?
guys?
Lyn
Member
Her matchups definitely aren't easy and unfortunately majority are just uphill battles against the most populated characters to date.
We can all cry about Rachel's MUs now since shes been hit with the nerf bat. My condolences to the actual Rachel mains out there.
I still believe Rachel vs Ayane is hopeless...