Rachel nerfs

[StrikerSashi]

It crouchs so you will be using it as a block string tool or counter poke. Everything is all situation? I covered literally every option they have, including doing nothing. It's not an invisible mixup, but that's expected 'cause it leads to a instant launch.

So what you're telling me is that what Rachel gained from the nerfs was this godlike online setup/mixup that is totally reactable and easy to deal with (not to mention it's easy to hold and punish)

Easy to hold? I just said to throw them. I didn't say she gained anything from 1.03. She got nerfed. Get over it. I'm just saying she's not linear.

IMO it's actually kind of dumb to hold 1PP now. You'd almost certainly get more damage by blocking and punishing.

If you're expecting 1PP, you're getting thrown either way.


EDIT: By the way, Tina's 1P doesn't even open up stun game. You can't connect ANYTHING after it if they know to slow escape it. Even if they don't slow escape it, they can still hold. Surprise, it's not a sitdown stun in the way that matters.

 

[Lyn]

Tina's 1P doesn't even open up stun game. You can't connect ANYTHING after it if they know to slow escape it. Even if they don't slow escape it, they can still hold. Surprise, it's not a sitdown stun in the way that matters.

What?

If they hold AFTER the sitdown, they will be even more negative than just letting the animation run through. What are you talking about; or are you just mashing mindlessly? Are you sure you know how sitdown stun works?

I almost feel as if I'm being trolled.

If Tina lands CH on 1P, she's at +19 with a SITDOWN STUN. Just to do yourself the favor; take a quick glance at all of her moves that are -18 or lower.

just to name a few, Tina's 4K, 6P can all be used as an extender on the sitdown. Yeah it's going to jump the stun state by a level but you're guaranteed the follow-up in exchange for a few points more of damage.

If the opponent immediately holds afterwards; he/she will be so negative that Tina will be free to do whatever she wants.(preferably her high damaging throw on Hi-Counter.)(+49 for Tina if opponent is brainless.)

So yes, it's a true sitdown stun AND it works in the same fashion as you stated for Rachel's 1P instead; she has better options than running a +22 stun game.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Spoilers, slow escape is a thing. It's +12.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

What?

If they hold AFTER the sitdown, they will be even more negative than just letting the animation run through. What are you talking about; or are you just mashing mindlessly? Are you sure you know how sitdown stun works?

I almost feel as if I'm being trolled.

If Tina lands CH on 1P, she's at +19 with a SITDOWN STUN. Just to do yourself the favor; take a quick glance at all of her moves that are -18 or lower.

just to name a few, Tina's 4K, 6P can all be used as an extender on the sitdown. Yeah it's going to jump the stun state by a level but you're guaranteed the follow-up in exchange for a few points more of damage.

If the opponent immediately holds afterwards; he/she will be so negative that Tina will be free to do whatever she wants.(preferably her high damaging throw on Hi-Counter.)(+49 for Tina if opponent is brainless.)

So yes, it's a true sitdown stun AND it works in the same fashion as you stated for Rachel's 1P instead; she has better options than running a +22 stun game.

Tinas 1P isnt a sitdown stun... Its a stun that looks like a stidown animation wise, but you can hold everything at any time... Tinas only sitdown stun (that grants her unholdable advantage) is 8P

 

[StrikerSashi]

Yep. Tina 1P just trips. They sit, but it's not a sitdown stun. Slow escapable to +12 (which guarantees nothing) and your 6P is holdable even if they don't slow escape.

EDIT: But, you know, it's real nice of you to question me in that obnoxious manner when you don't even know how the game works. Really shows your character.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

Well after 1p on counter hit your best options are 3p (need to perfect SE to escape it) or 64T and since shes on croughing state her most powerfull unbreakable throw comes out

 

[StrikerSashi]

Oh, I just meant that the guaranteed 6P and 4K he listed don't work. Tina does get FC 3P and FC 64T as a mixup after CH 1P.

 

[MasterHavik]

Her nerfs?Hmmm...I hope you like defense since that is what Rachel is becoming.

 

[Lyn]

Yep. Tina 1P just trips. They sit, but it's not a sitdown stun. Slow escapable to +12 (which guarantees nothing) and your 6P is holdable even if they don't slow escape.

EDIT: But, you know, it's real nice of you to question me in that obnoxious manner when you don't even know how the game works. Really shows your character.

Ironic I'm sure.

6P has to be read. Situational. I'm not here to theorycraft every scenario that comes into your head. It makes even less sense for me to sit here and explain to you that holding after Tina's 1P will open an even bigger window for opportunity for her to do whatever she wants.

I honestly have no idea what's preventing you from wrapping your head around this however I digress since you did believe Rachel to be in need of ridiculous nerfs that really didn't solve anything beyond destroying a character.

Edit: I've already said that you have to mash the hold in previous post. Not a good idea.

 

[Viper Excess]

Just to be clear, Tina's 1P on CH causes a stumble stun IIRC, so that nobody gets confused. This stun can be SE'd and countered out of immediately, but it still allows frame advantage since it will most likely force blocking.

It's infamous in water and ice because it will stun on normal hit. Sry if this is repeated info.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I asked for Rachel buffs. I never wanted her nerfed except her launchers.

6P is situational? WR 3P is also a mid punch that is both faster and gives a much better stun. Holding 1P is dangerous? No kidding. Holding Rachel's 1P is dangerous too. Plus, Rachel's 1P stuns long enough that 3P actually extends the stun game.

 

[Lyn]

I asked for Rachel buffs. I never wanted her nerfed except her launchers.

6P is situational? WR 3P is also a mid punch that is both faster and gives a much better stun. Holding 1P is dangerous? No kidding. Holding Rachel's 1P is dangerous too. Plus, Rachel's 1P stuns long enough that 3P actually extends the stun game.

Once upon a time.

EDIT: I'd personally like her damage to be nerfed, 'cause she has okizeme and a good stun launch game when a lot of the cast have neither. That said, I'd much rather have Rachel stay the way she is or even be buffed a bit to guarantee stomp and have the rest of the cast buffed so they also have something they excel at.

So what exactly are you trying to say? At first she has a good stun > launch game(which a lot of characters already has.)

Then 180* turn and say the VERY SAME THING SHOULD BE NERFED.

Hahahahahahahahaha!

You laugh obnoxiously to another member due to failure to understand where he's coming from despite being understood by others here; yet get sore when it's done to you?

Irony.

Like I said earlier, You CAN mash out against 1P after stun but that would be extremely dangerous to anticipate Tina's 6P since her 6324T on counter literally eats your health.

Theorycrafting. :/

 

[StrikerSashi]

Right, I said that she got good damage from stun launch and that she didn't need it when she already has a good okizeme game. I don't want one character to have both in the game as it is now. I don't see the contradiction. I always wanted to nerf her damage from stun launch. And I always wanted to buff her stomp and her okizeme game.

I laughed due to failure of understanding where he's coming from? No, I laughed 'cause he's a chronic liar.

Like I said earlier, You CAN mash out against 1P after stun but that would be extremely dangerous to anticipate Tina's 6P since her 6324T on counter literally eats your health.

Are you saying that mashing mid hold against Tina is dangerous? That's obvious. I already mentioned that she has a WR64T option after CH 1P. You don't need to mash hold, though, 'cause you can slow escape and block it. It also loses to WR64T, but it'll do like half the damage 'cause it won't counter and also won't do her big throw. Rachel has the same mixup off of CH 1P, but it stuns for longer which means Rachel's 3P is guaranteed unless they hold, which means they have to eat CH throw damage instead of normal throw damage if they guess wrong.

 

[Itz King Beebop]

ARE YOU TRYING TO COMPARE TINA HI-COUNTER THROW DAMAGE TO RACHEL'S? WTF kind of community to we have twaddlefuckking around on here where people cry, whine, can't do math (basic math for that matter,), can't understand MUs (even when the people who main the characters tell you how) You people try and trash talk your way to proving someone wrong rather than going to the lab and using brain power; and on top of that you're trying to trash people that not only play a more difficult game than you people, but the father game of DOA(I'm referring to all of the VF players in here.) What I'm getting at now is no longer a debate of whether Rachel should be nerfed or not. This thread has come down to people who are able to use comon sense, and simple minded dumbasses, I can use common sense and simply disprove all of the dumb shit that the dumbasses say in this thread, and it's the same thing all of the VF players have been doing in this thread since the getgo. Japanese players, Mamba, and several other players in no way felt that Rachel was OP now TN just has turned the DOA community into a band of button mashing bitches... I was playing TT2, Injustice/MK, SSFIVAE, and KoF, and a lot of the players from those gaming communities feel that many DOA players are just perverts and button mashers... shouldn't you want to prove them wrong, rather than adding crybaby fan service to the already bad community reputation as well? C'mom let's grow up MK community 2.0...

 

[KidArk]

I never thought Rachel was OP I just thought if she missed the stomp that she should not be + idk why they fixed anything else, she was solid aside from that xD. She was almost as good as gen fu now she's no where near him yet people complain about rachel and not gen fu.... sure doa community knows where its priorities are, I'll just keep practicing then , Leon air throw... soo good now..

 

[FatalxInnocence]

What they need to do to Rachel now, is make her guard breaks plus frame. It is weird right? That all her guard breaks are negative frame, apart from 66K.

PPP, 6PKP, 6KP and 236P should have altered frames so that they're at least +1 on block like 66K.

Least that'll give her some way of keeping the pressure on.

~ On a side note, I still don't think she's as terrible as everyone is making her out to be lol. Sure she's not as strong, but she's still useable.

 

[MasterHavik]

she is useable, but man she has to play lots of defense.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Truth be told, her 1PP is worthless when playing against someone with decent reaction. The same applies to Bass' 1PP, Bayman's KK, Leon's 2H+KK, Ryu's 6KP, Akira's 6KP, and various other moves that have highly telegraphed animations. Offline, at the very least. Even online most attacks like those are easy to counter, but again, it depends on how observant and quick the opponent is.

Back to the main point, however. Rachel is still a useable character. Her style was changed, yes, but that's simply because people grew reliant on a move everyone knew would be nerfed. Her stomp had issues, they were dealt with (though the additional start up frames confuse me a bit).

The nerf to 1PP was unnecessary, but I suppose it helps people with poor reaction times punish her more easily. The 4PP nerf I don't quite understand. It's slower, sure, but I've not seen anyone react to it, and why it needs to be fast anyways - since it's a tracking move following a tracking move - doesn't make sense to me. Not that it needed to be slower, but I can't really picture a situation where the second hit being a little slower will make a world of difference. If anything, I think it's quite interesting, since the slower startup equals a longer string delay, and a longer string delay means players may be waiting for the second punch and will instead be thrown. That's just a hypothetical, though, so no need to say yes or no to that.

Also, to clarify, it wasn't Rachel that was OP, it was her stomp. The only time in which a move like that would be fair game is if every character received their old FTs back. Even then, it was vastly superior to a FT since it didn't require proper timing nor specific setups to ensure you were left with an advantage. It was basically a free + frames button that everyone would spam all the time. Without it, yeah, she's not top tier, but to imply that she's horrible is going a bit far.

 

[Argentus]

Her nerfs?Hmmm...I hope you like defense since that is what Rachel is becoming.

It's what she shoulda been to begin with, as a power character.

 

[Argentus]

Truth be told, her 1PP is worthless when playing against someone with decent reaction. The same applies to Bass' 1PP, Bayman's KK, Leon's 2H+KK, Ryu's 6KP, Akira's 6KP, and various other moves that have highly telegraphed animations. Offline, at the very least. Even online most attacks like those are easy to counter, but again, it depends on how observant and quick the opponent is.

Back to the main point, however. Rachel is still a useable character. Her style was changed, yes, but that's simply because people grew reliant on a move everyone knew would be nerfed. Her stomp had issues, they were dealt with (though the additional start up frames confuse me a bit).

The nerf to 1PP was unnecessary, but I suppose it helps people with poor reaction times punish her more easily. The 4PP nerf I don't quite understand. It's slower, sure, but I've not seen anyone react to it, and why it needs to be fast anyways - since it's a tracking move following a tracking move - doesn't make sense to me. Not that it needed to be slower, but I can't really picture a situation where the second hit being a little slower will make a world of difference. If anything, I think it's quite interesting, since the slower startup equals a longer string delay, and a longer string delay means players may be waiting for the second punch and will instead be thrown. That's just a hypothetical, though, so no need to say yes or no to that.

Also, to clarify, it wasn't Rachel that was OP, it was her stomp. The only time in which a move like that would be fair game is if every character received their old FTs back. Even then, it was vastly superior to a FT since it didn't require proper timing nor specific setups to ensure you were left with an advantage. It was basically a free + frames button that everyone would spam all the time. Without it, yeah, she's not top tier, but to imply that she's horrible is going a bit far.

Its standard.fgc.attitude.
"They arent the best in the game anymore? They suck now!"