RISE UP! Street Fighter V on PS4 and PC

[d3v]

It is contradictory because it literally makes no sense. I'm not trying to make @d3v look foolish or anything but it's like he really doesn't understand the point of what we are arguing or how ultimately the tourney scene and Capcom's overall goals fuck each other in the ass.

I'll explain it myself and I'll also post this video as a backup:

Riot makes money because they made certain that they will have a game that will appeal to a majority of the people and improve upon it time after time to the best of their ability. They didn't have a game rushed through the door to be released to the tourney MOBA community.
It's the same with Starcraft, Blizzard didn't rush that either nor Hearthstone and definitely not Overwatch...

But the content is "free", they aren't going to be that invested in buying costumes or characters if they aren't being competitive. They'll probably get enough fight money for the characters they care about and that's it. Only pro and online warriors seriously care about unlocking everyone. I bet you if they made a Core Fighters version of Street Fighter V like Team Ninja did with Dead or Alive 5, you would be seeing people pay for 2-3 characters tops(and that's pushing it with how many be complacent on a single character and just play Ryu or Chun who will definitely be free characters by default).

But where is that money coming from? Because it's definitely not coming from the casuals...
I said this before and I'll say it again: If the Dead or Alive competitive scene can barely keep the game afloat compared to the casual side, what makes you believe Street Fighter's can when it's numbers for EVO can barely touch Smash, which has WAY more competitive players than Street Fighter can dream of...and that's not counting it's casual side nor how dedicate it's community is even compared to Street Fighter.

Casuals means alot in ALL games and outnumber the hardcore fans way more than people think they do. Throwing them under the boss to tend to the minority seems dumb no matter how much you rationalize otherwise.

I fully get you want to represent Street Fighter, I seriously do, more than you believe(I STILL want to get Street Fighter V...LATER)...but I cannot fathom this level of ridiculousness just to appease a faction of their market and the defense of the fans and the journalists, not a single bit.

Money will come from the same place it came to support SFIV, which is from the core community. The video, and most arguments here come from the belief that a game's revenue comes mostly from the sales of the game itself. However, that's not been the case for the past couple of years.

Here's some publicly accessible data. Last year, EA reported that, out of the $2.2 billion they made from games, nearly $1 billion ($921 million) was from post launch content. If I break it down into a pie chart, this is what it looks like.

That's nearly half of their revenue coming from DLC content.

Also, according to the same report, core game purchases are on the decline but supplemental purchases by dedicated players are on the rise. People in general are buying less games these days in the AAA space. AAA game design these days has shifted to a model that's designed to encourage players to spend more and more time on them than back in the day. This is why we tend to see either big, open world games, or games with a large focus on multiplayer.

This is why Capcom is gambling on this calculated risk. Because it see's this trend and believes that the data supports them focusing on competitive multiplayer and eSports.

One other thing related to this. Let's take a look at last generations games. While Street Fighter IV was the marquee title of that generation, it wasn't the biggest selling one. Mortal Kombat 9 actually outsold it by a huge margin. Yet, which one had more support poured into its competitive circuit - definitely not the one with Fatalities.

P.S. Dead Or Alive's problems have much more to do with the game's reputation and it's momentum in the competitive scene. Things that were ruined by Dead Or Alive 4. Yet at the same time, Team NINJA is still supporting the competitive scene. I mean, the 2017 Battle Royal was just announced after all.

 

[VirtuaKazama]

Forgot to post this, but Daigo was streaming SF5 last night.

I thought it was really interesting that he invited Fuudo, Tokido, Nuki, Haitani, Sako, and Kichijoji Ken on stream to learn their characters. They spent an equal amount of time on training mode to find new tech and versus mode to try it out, all while having fun at the same time.

Replay of this is right here: http://www.twitch.tv/daigothebeastv/v/48402560

 

[Tyaren]

Money will come from the same place it came to support SFIV, which is from the core community. The video, and most arguments here come from the belief that a game's revenue comes mostly from the sales of the game itself. However, that's not been the case for the past couple of years.

Here's some publicly accessible data. Last year, EA reported that, out of the $2.2 billion they made from games, nearly $1 billion ($921 million) was from post launch content. If I break it down into a pie chart, this is what it looks like.

That's nearly half of their revenue coming from DLC content.

Also, according to the same report, core game purchases are on the decline but supplemental purchases by dedicated players are on the rise. People in general are buying less games these days in the AAA space. AAA game design these days has shifted to a model that's designed to encourage players to spend more and more time on them than back in the day. This is why we tend to see either big, open world games, or games with a large focus on multiplayer.

This is why Capcom is gambling on this calculated risk. Because it see's this trend and believes that the data supports them focusing on competitive multiplayer and eSports.

One other thing related to this. Let's take a look at last generations games. While Street Fighter IV was the marquee title of that generation, it wasn't the biggest selling one. Mortal Kombat 9 actually outsold it by a huge margin. Yet, which one had more support poured into its competitive circuit - definitely not the one with Fatalities.

P.S. Dead Or Alive's problems have much more to do with the game's reputation and it's momentum in the competitive scene. Things that were ruined by Dead Or Alive 4. Yet at the same time, Team NINJA is still supporting the competitive scene. I mean, the 2017 Battle Royal was just announced after all.

First of all, who in here said that DLC didn't bring in a sizable amount of profit? No one.
Secondly, even if "core game purchases are on the decline but supplemental purchases by dedicated players are on the rise." that still doesn't mean the profit from dedicated players comes even close to the profit that the core game purchase combined with supplemental purchases by casuals brings in. Casuals might not purchase as much and they may drop the game after some time altogether (who's fault is that?) but they still are in such a big majority, about 80%-90%, that telling me Capcom earns most from dedicated players and tournaments is, I repeat, BS.
Last but not least, Street Fighter 5's model is actually breaking with the current model and does things a little different. You can earn all (or most) of the DLC by just playing and gameplay mechanics will update and expand for free. Do you know what will happen? The small group of dedicated fans will earn the DLC by playing the game, that's what they like and that's what they are good at, and the much larger casual crowd will spare itself the hassle and just buy the characters and costumes with real money. And Capcom knows this very well. I for example planned to do exactly that. I never could amass enough Fighting Money for all new characters and costumes. The season pass it is then. Well, not anymore...now that I feel so scammed by Capcom. And I am not the only casual feeling this way. They shot themselves in the k̶n̶e̶e̶ foot with this casual unfriendly release.

Do want to know how delusional they actually really are? Here's a quote from a recent interview of Street Fighter's Ayano:
"The training mode tutorial when you first boot up the game helps casuals players a lot, and that if you can beat hell mode in survival, it means you're ready for online play."

And regarding DOA: They are not supporting the competitive scene because they earn so much cash from them (they earn cash from bikinis and fetish costumes, they do it because it brings prestige. Yes, companies actually pay extra for a little bit of prestige. Even I would find it very sad, if DOA completely falls to the casual crowd and it truly becomes just the "Titty Fighter". .__.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

@d3v Okay, I get what you are going for and again, I seriously do because funny thing Dead or Alive 5 Last Round is still going strong because people fund the DLC market which is keeping the game alive and yes, that also lead to not only this year's Battle Royal and next years'.

I also get that Dead or Alive competitive circuit has improved MASSIVELY but was held down to what it should have been because of Dead or Alive 4, I also get that. But my point is that again, most competitors of Dead or Alive do not buy the DLC for the game(or used to) in FSD. It's mainly the casual base who continues to buy the DLC which further helps the game including tourney wise.

The problem with Street Fighter V going the route you are talking about is that it's basically ignoring the huge part of the casual base unlike what EA and Dead or Alive has done(in fact, Ultimate is basically going back to the Japanese level routes DOA mainly missed going full Western with Vanilla). Yeah, some of them are waiting in June or March but again, how many of them are going to buy it New again? How many of them are even going to remember the game in time for others like Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator or Killer Instinct Season 3 or Mortal Kombat XL Edition? Releasing the game this early to capitalize on their fiscal year and for the tourney goers sake is backfiring on an unprecedented level that Street Fighter will have a huge level returning to, especially since we only have Capcom's word on WHEN we will get the features we are supposed to get.

And remember, other games have done models like this and guess what? They got lambasted in the reviews and died in record time or are slowly dying(Battlefront IS successful but it has been blown to pieces reputation wise and from what I've heard and seen, not many people are even playing it compared to how many bought it and Evolve died within 4 months of it's release and was savaged hard). That's what you need to remember because as you said yourself this is a risk...the problem is that the risks are actually lower than the rewards.

 

[synce]

Bro it's Street Fighter, it's not going to fail. I know casuals and they don't care about broken or unfinished games. The people bitching are the people who preordered and will continue to preorder even though many publishers are content to ship unfinished games (because you keep preordering them).

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

i feel so much happier since i obtained Poland. i just sit back and eat sausages while playing SF5.

because of how little each character requires work to use i can honestly see myself playing just about everyone to some capacity.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Bro it's Street Fighter, it's not going to fail. I know casuals and they don't care about broken or unfinished games. The people bitching are the people who preordered and will continue to preorder even though many publishers are content to ship unfinished games (because you keep preordering them).

No shit. I never stated Street Fighter was going to fail, no one ever stated that. But it's pretty obvious Capcom's reputation is going to take another hit and yeah, I didn't say all casuals either. But if you are pretending the bad press will mean nothing, you got to be mad.

 

[crapoZK]

Review season is over anyway so I guess...
SFV took a medium-sized L-sandwich in terms of reviews and press statements. Other than that, this game is healthy.

Evolve died within 4 months of it's release and was savaged hard

Nah fam Evolve died because it was a piece of shit with literally 0 content. Single vs. Multiplayer (and vice-versa), and 1 map. Don't forget that even though you paid £45 for the game, you got nothing and you had to pay £15 more for the shit you should've got from the beginning. Even with the content, the game was trash.

(Don't atttack me pls)

 

[Rubbish Radish]

So... any idea when they'll release the rest of the modes in this game? I have no intention of buying this game in it's current state. I hear the gameplay is probably the smoothest the series had, but the missing features makes dropping 60 bucks difficult.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

So... any idea when they'll release the rest of the modes in this game? I have no intention of buying this game in it's current state. I hear the gameplay is probably the smoothest the series had, but the missing features makes dropping 60 bucks difficult.

March

 

[Tyaren]

So... any idea when they'll release the rest of the modes in this game? I have no intention of buying this game in it's current state. I hear the gameplay is probably the smoothest the series had, but the missing features makes dropping 60 bucks difficult.

It depends on what you are looking for in a fighting game. A couple of modes will be added in March, as Russain said, but it's uncertain if it will contain an arcade mode or a versus CPU mode. The two modes the game lacks most sorely. Then there will be a second big update in June with a cinematic story mode (the now existing story mode is a joke) and probably some other smaller additions. So it's either March or June. Really depends on what you think should be in a full priced game.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

i strongly expect they'll include the arcade and vs CPU in the March update if not sooner. i certainly cant see it coming any later.

 

[d3v]

@Xhominid The Demon Within fiscal year ends in March. If that was the reason (and not the fact that Winter Clash is next weekend, and Wizard World had their first tournament this weekend) then they would have released it then.

There's also the fact that SF has much more competitive stock than DOA. It's as much part of the series DNA now as jiggle physics are part of DOA's and blood and gore are part of MK's. The dude who holds the Guinness World Record for tournament wins? SF player. The guy who has a book deal and even a manga about him? SF player. The most watched competitive gaming video on YouTube? An SF video.

In the EA report, there was mention of "dedicated players", the difference between DOA and SF is who these dedicated players are. The franchise's closer identification with competition means that for SF, it is those who play the game competitively whereas DOA has more who're just in it for the T&A.

Supporting the competitive scene then for Capcom isn't just about prestige - it's part of their whole business model. You don't just drop more than half a million into a 72 event season just for prestige.

 

[Argentus]

"The producer also briefly touched on how the game’s first post-launch character, Street Fighter III protagonist Alex, will play. Ayano stated that, since he’s younger, his moves will be different than folks are used to and that his V-skill will “embody” his grappling combat style. This is interesting news for fans of the character, as his previous incarnations focused more on using pokes and meter to push his opponents to the corner over pure grappling."


That sounds...really bad.

Suddenly I'm getting the feeling he's gonna get the same treatment as kof xiii Clark: abandoning his wide variety of grapples in favor of turning him into a zangeif style single command grab character.

Also on that last sentence? Bullshit. In both 3rd strike and TVC he was designed in a way he could be played purely with grapples, as I've repeatedly demonstrated. Its just that most players prefer to poke and pressure rather than actually grapple.

 

[Rubbish Radish]

It depends on what you are looking for in a fighting game. A couple of modes will be added in March, as Russain said, but it's uncertain if it will contain an arcade mode or a versus CPU mode. The two modes the game lacks most sorely. Then there will be a second big update in June with a cinematic story mode (the now existing story mode is a joke) and probably some other smaller additions. So it's either March or June. Really depends on what you think should be in a full priced game.

I'm in the camp that thinks arcade mode and VS cpu modes should be standard issue. I like to try to get the hang of a character by practicing against the cpu before I embarrass myself in public.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Nah fam Evolve died because it was a piece of shit with literally 0 content. Single vs. Multiplayer (and vice-versa), and 1 map. Don't forget that even though you paid £45 for the game, you got nothing and you had to pay £15 more for the shit you should've got from the beginning. Even with the content, the game was trash.

That's why I compared Street Fighter V to Evolve. No, SFV won't die but to say that it won't take a hit is ridiculous...which is why I made the point I did(I don't know why people only went with Evolve and not Battlefront which fits SFV's situation alot more).

@Xhominid The Demon Within fiscal year ends in March. If that was the reason (and not the fact that Winter Clash is next weekend, and Wizard World had their first tournament this weekend) then they would have released it then.

So that leaves it being rushed for the sake of being tossed to the competitive scene asap then? Either way, not helping your overall case.

There's also the fact that SF has much more competitive stock than DOA. It's as much part of the series DNA now as jiggle physics are part of DOA's and blood and gore are part of MK's. The dude who holds the Guinness World Record for tournament wins? SF player. The guy who has a book deal and even a manga about him? SF player. The most watched competitive gaming video on YouTube? An SF video.

Okay...I never ever said anything about Street Fighter being less or Dead or Alive having more or anything like that in terms of how people see them competitively. I KNOW that people still have the dumb stigma of jiggle physics being the whole game and MK's being blood and gore. I know of Street Fighter's recognition. NONE OF THOSE ARE MY POINT. It doesn't matter the pedigree of Street Fighter V, that doesn't excuse it of being shipped and sold the way it is at full price. And FYI, MKX is one of the most successful Fighting games in a long ass while, surpassing SFIV. So has Smash and Smash 4 and even Brawl and they have a stigma attached to them too, just saying.

In the EA report, there was mention of "dedicated players", the difference between DOA and SF is who these dedicated players are. The franchise's closer identification with competition means that for SF, it is those who play the game competitively whereas DOA has more who're just in it for the T&A.

Okay...how does that help your point again? I know this because I have been playing the series myself. And let's not forget that most of the people who may want to be competitive with Street Fighter may only really attend just one or two tournies, let's not forget about that okay. And again, Melee, Brawl and Smash 4 can easily garner MORE people PER GAME than SFIV so as an overall franchise you can use that too.

Supporting the competitive scene then for Capcom isn't just about prestige - it's part of their whole business model. You don't just drop more than half a million into a 72 event season just for prestige.

Apparently you can for Capcom because they don't seriously care at this point.

I'm going to let another, more fair looking video also speak for my points:

Before anyone ultimately gets the wrong impression...again, I'm lambasting Capcom releasing the game at 60$ with such barebone features. And no, waiting a few weeks for more modes and waiting a few more months for the cinematic story and not making a true effort to get that out or even explain that you don't even get VS CPU or Arcade with it is inexcusable. Charging it for 60$ and rushing it only for the pros is inexcusable.

I don't care if you want to play Street Fighter V now, Releasing the game in such a shoddy state should not be praise worthy, no matter if it gets fixed down the line and no, using that other AAA titles do the same thing should NEVER be accepted. That's my point, you like the game fine, you want to continue playing it fine. But don't tell people that they should accept it ultimately and pretend this is how all fighting games should be released, this should be hammered down hard that this is a terrible practice period. If they made it a Tournament Edition and be 30$ or released it as a F2P like Killer Instinct, NO ONE would have been like this.

 

[Tyaren]

I'm in the camp that thinks arcade mode and VS cpu modes should be standard issue. I like to try to get the hang of a character by practicing against the cpu before I embarrass myself in public.

We're in the same camp then. I would advise you to wait a little longer until they patch these modes in. Right now I have nothing to play in this game other then Training, which gets boring quickly, and Survival, which just doesn't emulate the 2-3 rounds of usual Street Fighter matches.

i strongly expect they'll include the arcade and vs CPU in the March update if not sooner. i certainly cant see it coming any later.

I wish I could be this optimistic. XD

 

[Tyaren]

Street Fighter V had a disappointing first sales week.

First numbers are out from the UK:
[Week 07, 2016] STREET FIGHTER V (PS4/PC) > 24,300 / NEW
(Steam digital copies not included)

For comparison the sales of Street Fighter IV:
[Week 08, 2009] STREET FIGHTER IV (CAPCOM) > 88,000 / NEW
STREET FIGHTER IV (PS3) > 47,000
STREET FIGHTER IV (360) > 41,000
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/stree...s_than_street_fighter_iv_in_opening_week.html
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1188035

 

[Argentus]

FYI Battlefront's problem is more that it shouldnt have been called Battlefront at all. It would have done just fine if it hadn't compared itself to those original Xbox games, which just blow the new game out of the water in every possible aspect.

So no not the same as SFV's problem, which was that they released the game unfinished, just so people could practice and play it in the upcoming tourney

 

[VirtuaKazama]

Speaking of tourneys... Street Fighter V broke EVO records in less than 4 days for registrations. http://twinfinite.net/2016/02/street-fighter-v-breaks-evo-record-in-4-days/