Shimbori explains why they changed break blows on Marie, Honoka and NiCO

Macca Beam

Well-Known Member
i'm sorry, but why is "following one's own philosophy" worthy of note when that's what every director/creator does? itagaki has his own philosophy. hayashi and shimbori, their own. you can disagree with them, but i don't see why it's made out to be an outstanding trait when it comes to itagaki.

However todays TN takes that to a whole new level by presenting sex appeal of children. Arguments like "game says shes 18!" or "she acts mature" do not appeal to me when its obvious they were designed with underage appearance in mind, and the rest is to just have a argument aganist potential charges / law troubles.
no, what they did was poking their head out of the pile of anime porn in their office one day and realized oh fuck not everybody looks the exact same! and this is the result. marie rose's design passes as both an underage girl and a small-framed girl of age, so regardless of the intention, it serves the purpose of breaking up the repetition in the roster.

and yes, the core problem is this repetition, not the sex appeal. when you do it just once or twice for representation, fine. when you go ham on that clone button so that everybody looks perfectly identical regardless of things that normally should introduce a fuckton of variation in a person's physical appearance like race or age, there is a problem. and then there's the infinitely idiotic implication that there can only be one appealing form, ever. sure, people who go several weeks eating the same thing over and over exist, but they always have all of my pity and their opinions aren't worth shit.

Reputation with such negative sound youre bringing up comes heavily from other fighting games communities that would assault DoA with empty arguments like "this game is all about boobz" etc.
now imagine my soul when i have to read empty arguments from within its own community like "this game is all about the sexualization of X, Y, ... see, it's m-more disagreeable!!" on top of all that, eh? do any of you want to treat this as a fighting game or are you just looking for the nearest most convenient thing to pin some blame on?
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Since "minor" encompasses any and all ages up to 18, it's important to be clear that I'm not accusing anyone of pedophilia, here or otherwise. I'm not really making any moral judgments at all. What I am saying is given that general anime media includes so few 18-year-olds or older, especially when it comes to moe designs, clearly that's not where the money is. And there hasn't been any sort of push from the overall fanbase to change that. So, I'm concluding that there wouldn't be a constant need to make these characters 18, 18, 18, 18 (which looks stupid) without that fear of getting the banhammer abroad. And that's the main reason why TN keeps going with 18, even if it looks stupid, and even if the character design they made would cause some doubt.

I'll take back "prefer" and bring back "wouldn't care if" if that works better.


These have been some really busy days, so I'm sorry for the late response.

I'm glad to know you weren't accusing anyone since it's something really common lately, so I'm sorry if I sound too categorical.

As I said, if they feared to been banned and people calling these characters minors, then they would opt for more ages above 18. I mean, yes, Dimensions happened and Marie Age birthday (not only her age) is a literal "fuck you" to them but that's what I see with every other of these girls, they being controversial at porpose. Being controversial have been a marketing tool for them sometimes.


Because they generally do. We've studied enough about human physiology at this point as a world to know what's common and what's not. For example, the average height of a Swedish woman is 5'5"/167cm. Marie is well below that at 4'9"/147cm. An outlier. Even the people whom this applies to in real life know they are outliers. She is not the first thing you'd design when trying to depict a Swede. You have to intentionally go for that outlier, or be basing it on a specific person who is that outlier.

So, you designed someone not just super short, but also very young in the face, and whom acts like a young child in personality and mannerisms, but then say that they're of majority age. People might doubt it, but okay. It does happen sometimes in real life. But, if you keep doing that over and over, you're unintentionally (or intentionally) saying that this is the norm when it's not. (Or maybe you're saying that it's the ideal, which I don't think works overall.) If you were to run into these people in real life over and over in quick succession, you would think it was slightly weird. So, lo and behold, when TN keeps introducing these unconnected people from differing countries, but all outliers in the same way, one after the other, people think it's weird. It would draw attention even if it were a different attribute that doesn't feed into the whole "Is it okay to sexualize them?" dilemma. If TN had the next 3 characters all be redheads, people would also think it was odd. And, the next step for people would be to wonder why they did it.

The thing is, I don't think they wanted to design the average Swede, like when they design Japanese girls they don't even try to design the average Japanese woman due, you know, their body sizes.

Also, the "when you do it over and over" is just Marie Rose and NiCO and only in body structure, not even in personality. Honoka and all these other Xtreme girls are just in another whole league where you have to use terms like "oppai loli" to try really hard to incluse they as lolis/minors.

That's the thing. TN has full control over how Marie comes off to others. They could've given her a more "self-aware" type personality. Like, she's playing up the kid angle as a great deception. But, when it came time to flesh her out and give her some story time...yeah, she pretty much just is the kid, tantrums and all. They choked. They can't choke. lol


Mmmmmmm, I doubt it. It's not that she's "different". I'd say her popularity is because she's a kawaii, blonde, twin-tailed goth loli. She comes right from that modern moe aesthetic. Something that Honoka and NiCO were also designed to fit into. Marie is...Marie, Honoka is a ditzy airhead, and NiCO is a chunibyo (a flavor of immaturity). The moe aesthetic is 95% of the time a child-like cuteness, immaturity, or helplessness meant to evoke a protector mentality in the audience. Coming off as super-mature and adult goes against that feeling. Ergo, moe characters usually aren't adults.

So, in agreeing with, or choosing to give in to, those fans who think that Marie, Honoka, and NiCO need that special protection during a Break Blow, they're further infantilizing them. Which is extra awkward given their physical designs and controversial age. I'm saying they shouldn't feed into it, lest the discourse surrounding them and possible bans start to worsen, actual 18 age be damned. The controversy isn't going to help after a certain point. Apparently, the mods on the DOA Reddit are already starting to look over their shoulders.

Even if you say her popularity is just because she's a "blonde gothic lokita", that's not enough reason to being that much popular in this franchise, that was known for her busty female characters. Old fans would expect something totally different. The "moe" fans that you are saying wouldn't just start buying this franchise because there was just one single character that they can like.

Honoka personality in other hand is pretty much the same as Mila with super powers because the obvious reason (being related to that man) and NiCO personality is not even close to being Chūnibyō since she doesn't have anything special (her power is not even a challenge to the Gary Stues and Mary Sues) and her purpose is not that great, it's more mundane than any other rival (even if you can call her that) in the franchise. Diego would fit that archetype much more (age aside), since he's "the best" just because yes, deux ex machina included but you know, people won't question him because he is a man and he is the typical western """"serious"""" archetype.

About break blows, Japanese fans don't ask for them being censored just because they think they are minors, they complained about these characters looking "fainted" in their facial expresions, like American players saying to Shimbori they felt "embarrased" playing with the classic female costumes and being that the reason why these costumes are now just alternative costumes.

Team Ninja (or Koei) listeing to both the most radical sides has nothing to do with characters being minors, it's them ... just wanting money desperately. In my opinion they should just give the middle finger to both sides and just go in the direction they want.
 
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werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
As I said, if they feared to been banned and people calling these characters minors, then they would opt for more ages above 18.
The other part of my conclusion was that they really can't do that either. Going up in age would further stretch the suspension of disbelief in how the characters look and come off, and because otaku culture is so obsessed with youth, it would likely compromise their popularity. They wouldn't be as young and vulnerable, which goes against moe.

Honoka and all these other Xtreme girls are just in another whole league where you have to use terms like "oppai loli" to try really hard to incluse they as lolis/minors.
Well, there's a difference between being a loli and not seeming quite fully grown. Just adding boobs to a character doesn't quite stop them from not being 18. Obviously people develop far before 18. People are also including Honoka's short height (even for a Japanese person) and her high-pitched voice to add to the accusation. Luna in DOAXVV seems to be the same way. Again, under 5 ft. Again, none of these things individually mean anything. But all together? When it's only the large boobs that make them seem mature in any sense of the word, you're not going to fully escape questioning.

Even if you say her popularity is just because she's a "blonde gothic lokita", that's not enough reason to being that much popular in this franchise, that was known for her busty female characters. Old fans would expect something totally different.
Why do you think everyone is always fighting about it? lol

The "moe" fans that you are saying wouldn't just start buying this franchise because there was just one single character that they can like.
I mean, I don't think that Marie et al's popularity is really coming from older fans, though. The popular trends have shifted. It would have to be newer/younger people driving the popularity. Marie was first introduced with the release of the arcade version, which would've likely attracted some new people. And with the advent of the free version of DOA5, pretty much anyone could jump in and sway opinion.

NiCO personality is not even close to being Chūnibyō since she doesn't have anything special (her power is not even a challenge to the Gary Stues and Mary Sues) and her purpose is not that great
Shimbori used the word himself to describe her, though. It's about having grandiose delusions about or acting like you have powers and an obsession with looking cool or edgy. Hence NiCO's poses and such. The term literally translates to "8th Grader Sickness" because that's about the age the behavior is tied to and it's seen as kind of embarrassing if you never matured past that once you got to high school. She's not the creation of someone with chunibyo (which would be an overly edgy and Mary Sue catastrophe), but someone who has it.

Team Ninja (or Koei) listeing to both the most radical sides has nothing to do with characters being minors, it's them ... just wanting money desperately. In my opinion they should just give the middle finger to both sides and just go in the direction they want.
Definitely. It does seem like they're being pulled in too many different directions, so a stronger central vision for the franchise is needed. I don't think they really have that.
 
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Kuga

Active Member
1. Im not Itagaki fan, just like his design choices better.
2. Still like this game, and respect people who like and play these girls...
3. ... But i hope Raidou didnt rape more women. Horny bastard.
 

Macca Beam

Well-Known Member
that's not enough reason to being that much popular in this franchise, that was known for her busty female characters
i'm confident the fact that a franchise known for a certain habit did something radically different is reason for the popularity. you can easily observe how similar designs elsewhere aren't as immensely popular, because they're no longer the special snowflake in those contexts.

older fans contributing to that is possible, if they're bored of the stagnation or just part of the elusive "i love them all" crowd lol
 

Ninoasker

Well-Known Member

Kasumi-Phase-X

Well-Known Member
Sorry for bringing this topic again and for using a oneangrygamer.net site but I just stumbled upon this PC cheat to reenable the Break Blows on the three characters on topic.

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/...ow-facecams-for-nico-honoka-marie-rose/80918/


There is no need to apologize for bringing stuff up especially if info has been updated or there is a cheat to restoring the camera shots of break blow face cams. You don't need to apologize on what site your using, especially if you happen to find something related to this topic or other DOA stuff to post on FSD.
 

SaihateDYNAMO

Well-Known Member
Sorry for bringing this topic again and for using a oneangrygamer.net site but I just stumbled upon this PC cheat to reenable the Break Blows on the three characters on topic.

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/...ow-facecams-for-nico-honoka-marie-rose/80918/

literally no expression whatsoever... lookin like
disappointed-face.png
disappointed-face.png
disappointed-face.png
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Well they probably decided half way that they were going to censor those 3 so they never finished doing the animations on those face models for those hits.
 
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