Sidestepping

[Virtua Mima]

Exhibit A

ew
I'm sure there are lots of punks on FSD i see them everyday, but your arrogance makes you no better.

 

[ScattereDreams]

IMO it's extremely one sided for half the cast. Not every character can utilize it as well as the next character, which I think is a problem. Some characters have good follow up attacks that're either good for crushing, or fast enough to interrupt the next attack during an opponents string. Other characters ss attacks are so slow it's completely useless. Compared to Soul Calibur, and VF, DOA has the worst IMO...

But atleast we have true sidestepping, right? =/

 

[Brute]

1) The offline scene for DOA5 isn't as big as we'd like, so a lot of people judge how the game is played online.

2) The game plays like shit online and of all the things that go wrong with the bad netcode, sidestepping is one of the things that gets hit hardest due to the precision in timing required.

3) Thus, online side-stepping, like many other things (throw punishing?), becomes useless/next to impossible to do, and so people don't use it, and people don't know any better due to the smaller offline scene.

4) If an attack is so telegraphed that you can get the timing right for a sidestep, most players just opt to counter it instead. While I would think sidesteps come in handy is against unholdable moves.

5) Sidestep is used frequently to cancel power blows.

 

[DrDogg]

What irritates me is when people low hold out of certain high attacks and grabs. You shouldn't be rewarded for guessing wrong (since holds are guessing). If you felt a high attack was coming, you should either block it, hold it, or just duck. Low holding kind of ruins things, since the recovery is also just too fast, but that is a different topic.

To be fair, ducking takes an eternity in this game. It's much faster to low hold. Not saying that's a good thing (I'd much rather ducking be faster), but there are reasons to low hold instead of duck (especially online where low holds are virtually unpunishable).

ew
I'm sure there are lots of punks on FSD i see them everyday, but your arrogance makes you no better.

Exhibit B

IMO it's extremely one sided for half the cast. Not every character can utilize it as well as the next character, which I think is a problem. Some characters have good follow up attacks that're either good for crushing, or fast enough to interrupt the next attack during an opponents string. Other characters ss attacks are so slow it's completely useless. Compared to Soul Calibur, and VF, DOA has the worst IMO...

But atleast we have true sidestepping, right? =/

I can't think of any characters that actually have "bad" sidestep attacks. I'd prefer every character have at least one safe SS attack, but even the characters with unsafe SS attacks I can use very effectively (from a strictly sidestepping point of view).

1) The offline scene for DOA5 isn't as big as we'd like, so a lot of people judge how the game is played online.

2) The game plays like shit online and of all the things that go wrong with the bad netcode, sidestepping is one of the things that gets hit hardest due to the precision in timing required.

3) Thus, online side-stepping, like many other things (throw punishing?), becomes useless/next to impossible to do, and so people don't use it, and people don't know any better due to the smaller offline scene.

4) If an attack is so telegraphed that you can get the timing right for a sidestep, most players just opt to counter it instead. While I would think sidesteps come in handy is against unholdable moves.

5) Sidestep is used frequently to cancel power blows.

1. Agreed.

2/3. I have minimal issues stepping online. It's a little bit harder, but one of the few things I don't think is impacted significantly by the latency.

4. I still prefer to step, and that strategy works well for me, even online.

5. Which leaves the opponent at -28, yet no one punishes this.

 

[Prince Adon]

To be fair, ducking takes an eternity in this game. It's much faster to low hold. Not saying that's a good thing (I'd much rather ducking be faster), but there are reasons to low hold instead of duck (especially online where low holds are virtually unpunishable).

This is the only reason I use low hold to evade in this game. Ducking is just too slow(especially online). I do it less offline since it's not as necessary(being able to duck and block is much better offline).

 

[Chaos]

This is the only reason I use low hold to evade in this game. Ducking is just too slow(especially online). I do it less offline since it's not as necessary(being able to duck and block is much better offline).

Man I really wish TN increase the speed for ducking (duck faster)

 

[ScattereDreams]

To be fair, ducking takes an eternity in this game. It's much faster to low hold. Not saying that's a good thing (I'd much rather ducking be faster), but there are reasons to low hold instead of duck (especially online where low holds are virtually unpunishable).

I've said this before but people thought I was joking. Compared to Tekken where I can instantly crouch on reaction when I see a high at coming (both online and offline) makes ducking in DOA look bad.. Countless times I've tried to duck Ayanes 6k high kick follow up and got kicked in the face..

I can't think of any characters that actually have "bad" sidestep attacks. I'd prefer every character have at least one safe SS attack, but even the characters with unsafe SS attacks I can use very effectively (from a strictly sidestepping point of view).

Maybe it's just me or the online =/

 

[Virtua Mima]

Exhibit B.

You're not clever.

 

[DrDogg]

You're not clever.

You're providing the perfect example of my initial statement. Thank you.

 

[OldsmoBuick]

This is the only reason I use low hold to evade in this game. Ducking is just too slow(especially online). I do it less offline since it's not as necessary(being able to duck and block is much better offline).

How many frames does it take to enter a crouching state? Also, at what point during the transition from standing to crouching, do we avoid highs?

 

[Virtua Mima]

You should also look at it from the good Doctor's perspective.

There are A LOT... and I mean A LOT of people on FSD who think they know everything and pretty much ignore the advice of the elder members simply because they don't know enough to understand what we're talking about. I'm not saying you fall into that boat, just that at this point, it's the first thing most of the veteran members think of when they're questioned, even when we're just trying to help.

It's one of the reasons why I barely post in the character forums. You can't say anything without some newcomer questioning what you said like he's the foremost authority on the subject and there's no possible way he could be wrong.

How am i a perfect example, i never questioned your knowledge of the game anywhere
look I'm just saying being an arrogant prick about knowing more abt doa than others doesn't help anybody it's just disgusting.

 

[OldsmoBuick]

I've said this before but people thought I was joking. Compared to Tekken where I can instantly crouch on reaction when I see a high at coming (both online and offline) makes ducking in DOA look bad.. Countless times I've tried to duck Ayanes 6k high kick follow up and got kicked in the face..

How likely do you think it is, that the input latency for movement is contributing to this problem? What I'm getting at is; Since 2 is FS, -- and in order to crouch we need to use 2+6 or 2+4 -- how often are we FSing just before the crouch? I don't mean intentionally, but rather due to the input latency. Couple that with actual ducking frames, and avoiding highs can get choppy, especially on reaction.

I know this is the SS topic but since it came up...

 

[dawnbringer]

How likely do you think it is, that the input latency for movement is contributing to this problem? What I'm getting at is; Since 2 is FS, -- and in order to crouch we need to use 2+3 or 2+1 -- how often are we FSing just before the crouch? I don't mean intentionally, but rather due to the input latency. Couple that with actual ducking frames, and avoiding highs can get choppy, especially on reaction.

1 always implies that 2 is pressed; in other words, 1 = 2+4, and 2+1 = 1. If you press 1 cleanly there won't be any stepping to side.

However, it's possible to move to side if you use 2+H to crouch. If you press H a little bit later, a character will step a little and then crouch. If I remember correctly this makes crouching come out later.

I know this is the SS topic but since it came up...

 

[HiguraShiki]

To be fair, ducking takes an eternity in this game. It's much faster to low hold. Not saying that's a good thing (I'd much rather ducking be faster), but there are reasons to low hold instead of duck (especially online where low holds are virtually unpunishable).

That's what I'm trying to say. I don't understand why they would make low holds have speedy recoveries. It's pretty difficult to grab a low hold on reaction, since by the time you notice it, they have already recovered.
But eh, I'm not much of a balance tester, just the way I feel.

 

[OldsmoBuick]

1 always implies that 2 is pressed; in other words, 1 = 2+4, and 2+1 = 1. If you press 1 cleanly there won't be any stepping to side.
However, it's possible to move to side if you use 2+H to crouch. If you press H a little bit later, a character will step a little and then crouch. If I remember correctly this makes crouching come out later.

I'm sorry, I didn't post what I thought I posted. I meant 2+4 and 2+6 are used to enter crouch, which result in 1 and 3 respectively. Hitting 1, 3, 5 or 7, w/o hitting a cardinal direction, doesn't seem likely to happen consistently -- especially on reaction. So, I posed the question -- I think it was a question -- because the speed of crouch was already called into question, and something like a brief moment of FSing would only exasperate the problem.

 

[DrDogg]

How am i a perfect example, i never questioned your knowledge of the game anywhere
look I'm just saying being an arrogant prick about knowing more abt doa than others doesn't help anybody it's just disgusting.

I was explaining why a certain reaction came about (one I was not involved in). You decided to jump on me adding nothing of merit to the conversation (which is why everyone else ignored you). You assumed you knew the situation better than I did and therefore felt it necessary to call me out randomly in this topic.

In short, I attempted to help the situation, then you interrupted the conversation with some random bitching. And thus I give you...

Exhibit C

That's what I'm trying to say. I don't understand why they would make low holds have speedy recoveries. It's pretty difficult to grab a low hold on reaction, since by the time you notice it, they have already recovered.
But eh, I'm not much of a balance tester, just the way I feel.

You are not alone sir, you are not alone.

 

[Gill Hustle]

That's what I'm trying to say. I don't understand why they would make low holds have speedy recoveries. It's pretty difficult to grab a low hold on reaction, since by the time you notice it, they have already recovered.
But eh, I'm not much of a balance tester, just the way I feel.

Agreed.

I hate this get of jail free card and EVERYBODY DOES IT! I take pride when I do get a successful duck.

Moar recovery please! To twitter I go!

 

[ScattereDreams]

That's what I'm trying to say. I don't understand why they would make low holds have speedy recoveries. It's pretty difficult to grab a low hold on reaction, since by the time you notice it, they have already recovered.
But eh, I'm not much of a balance tester, just the way I feel.

Agreed as well. I've been wonder why TN insist on keeping it this way. I'm beginning to believe they actually like the fact that DOA is 70% guessing >.>

 

[Awesmic]

Virtua Mima...

As much as you can't stand DrDogg's attitude at times (I can't either, personally), it's safe to say he wasn't trying to be an asshole based on his explanations.

What he says, despite how it came out, is true in a sense. Some people really do act like they know everything, and when that clashes with someone who's already tested a situation numerous times, well... you can see how frustrating that can be when someone won't understand no matter how much it sinks in.

 

[Virtua Mima]

I was explaining why a certain reaction came about (one I was not involved in). You decided to jump on me adding nothing of merit to the conversation (which is why everyone else ignored you). You assumed you knew the situation better than I did and therefore felt it necessary to call me out randomly in this topic.

In short, I attempted to help the situation, then you interrupted the conversation with some random bitching. And thus I give you...

Exhibit C



You are not alone sir, you are not alone.

all i see is you bitching like the annoying shit that you are, and me telling you to get over yourself. i did not assume anything, read your posts not just here but everywhere you sound like a dick.
And JUST by the way, i dont care i got ignored, i didnt even want anybody else involved. "DOA stardom" is probably the most pathetic thing to strive for in my eyes.