Fantailler
Well-Known Member
Hitomi's
-8ppk
-8ppp
-8pp2k
Seems pretty legit to me.
-8ppk
-8ppp
-8pp2k
Seems pretty legit to me.
Princess Kasumi said:Hitomi does not deserve any buff regrading her low pokes. She has way more lows than the other characters.
Princess Kasumi said:She has safety
Princess Kasumi said:and she can reach much better than other characters.
236K has reach: 2.86m. 18f. high damage (35damage). It is a safer option than her 26KH.
2KH has reach: 1.93m and 19f. This move is more better than Kasumi's 24K and Marie Rose's 2KH
Marie Rose's 2KH has reach: 1.48m and 23f. This move is the worst low in the game and Hitomi's beats it by miles. (Marie Rose lacks in range, speed, low pokes and safety. Sure she has "expert holds" which Hitomi doesn't have.)
Kasumi's 24K has reach: 1.65m and 20f. This move gives more plus, if done up-close. (Kasumi has faster speed than Hitomi.)
Hitomi's
-8ppk
-8ppp
-8pp2k
Seems pretty legit to me.
Fantailler speaks the truth. Hitomi is a mix-up character. She can change the follow-ups of each of her strings. She is far away from being a low & bottom tier character.
I am just now realizing how confusing numpad notation must be to PC players.26kh???? You mean 3h+k?
Hitomi's BS.
Fantailler said:Honestly Raansu you make her look trash tier character.I don't know what else to say nothing seems good enough for you.
Fantailler said:-Fast walkspeed helping against WuK
Fantailler said:-crazy forward dash
Fantailler said:-good spacing 46p 66k2k
Fantailler said:-9H that covers both high punch and middle punch leading to 50/50
Fantailler said:-6T for 50/50 and loop/reset
Fantailler said:-has access to many lows/sitdown/launcher Within her strings.
Fantailler said:-GBs
Fantailler said:-expert Holds(not that great i admit but 46H is good for environmental damage)
Fantailler said:-3kpk and variants for guaranteed 46P
Fantailler said:-8ppk/p/2k for sitdown/launcher/frame advantage covering three different holds.
Fantailler said:-Many moves sending your opponent flying good for one hit raw damage and wall bounce.
Fantailler said:Her framedata is not the best but her strings are 4 to 5 hits often covering 3 heights.If there's a followup, even at-9/-13 i consider a move "safe" forcing your opponent to respect it especially in DOA where any stun could cost you a lot.
Fantailler said:She's a Jack of all Trade and Master of None for sure,but in the hand of a good, patient and knowledgeable player with enough experience she shines imho.
Fantailler said:If she really brothers you at high level pick an other one,it's easier to do it in DOA more than any other game.
Raansu tries his hardest to make her look like a trash tier character. She has safety, GREAT range, strings with many hits, a lot of low pokes and her throw 6T.
All this together means, she is not in need of buff, as she got the stuff to win a battle in high level play.
Princess Kasumi said:That is the point of the Hitomi BS video. I don't play her and I can still get away with her BS by doing the 6K string and the 6P string, this alone explains and shows, she is strong and of course in the right hands, I play also Tekken besides DOA, so I've enough experience with 3D fighters.
Princess Kasumi said:The problem is, you make Hitomi look like a trash tier character, while she is able to win in high level play. A character who deals decent damage, GREAT range and strings with options is what most characters do not have. Expert holds is not needed when she has these elements in her game-play.
Princess Kasumi said:Playing Marie Rose with short range, mostly 2 hits strings that hardly has an low poke option and her expert holds does not do her any favour while she is struggling to reach her opponent. So be thankful, Hitomi does not suffer like Marie Rose does in DOA5LR.
with doa5 most of her nerfs were system changes.
Her lows have the same properties in 5 as they did in 4
This is EXACTLY how I use her because it's the most effective way to survive. Using her like she some sort of VF character gets you nowhere.What BS am I supposed to see here other than a mediocre Hitomi player spamming 6pk against an equally worse player in a pretty below average match? I mean just from this short video I can tell you don't really know how to play her.
That's because there's two people in here that don't really play at a high level thinking a mid tier character is super good and misreading what I'm saying. I don't think she's trash tier and nothing in my posts suggests she's trash tier. What I am saying is she's NOT what you all are making her out to be. She's not some low poking crazy good character. Her lows are slow, unsafe, and give little advantage and can be staggered to be a disadvantage. Ya'll are making it out to be this amazing mind game trap when someone who is half decent at fuzzy guarding can stop all of it easily. That's not how you're supposed to play her. You're supposed to play her at mid range and going for whiff punishment because her general neutral game is mediocre and she doesn't have good crushes or even good NH stuns. She HAS to counter hit to open people up.
KBD is a thing, so that's not really a plus. The entire roster can space wake ups well.
Again, KBD and crouch dashing kind of make that a moot point.
Ya I'm not denying that. Again my core argument has always been that's she's very strong at zoning and whiff punishment due to many of her moves having very long reach.
Ya, that's great and all, but even at +7 is still a 50/50, which is not great. Meanwhile, Leifang's version gets a guaranteed stun follow up.
Again, not ideal. +10 frames is great and all when people mash out, but it should be +15 on hi-counter throw like it was in DoA4 giving her an unblockable follow up.
-All of her lows are terrible. They knockdown in stun and only do a small stagger on NH that doesn't even given frame advantage thanks to stagger escape.
Her sit down stuns are equally terrible and give no real advantage. She gets only 6p and 6k guaranteed off of it. If I'm going to go for max threshold I might as well do a stun that will give a real payout for the risk over the high risk of a sit down stun that gives no real payout.
She does have a variety of launchers. Too bad only 33p is able to give max juggle potential even at max threshold thanks to pp6pk ending in a high kick now whereas in older DoA's it ended as a mid kick. And yes I know her best max juggle is 4kk pp4ppp but that wont connect on anything but 33p launcher and obviously the mid kick hold.
Ya you do that charged GB. I will thank you for the free hold damage.
It used to be a standard hold, but whatever, still fantastic.
Meh. String can't be used even in the lightest stun. Just knocks them down. Most people are not going to get hit by that in neutral.
Sit down is worthless. 8ppp is ok. 8pp2k is the only sweep she has that keeps frame advantage after a stagger escape at +7 instead of +13. Fuzzy guard covers all of that.
Again, I've always stated that's her strong point with zoning.
Ok stop....respect what now? -9 is -9. No one is going to respect that. Either you finish the string and get thrown or free cancel and enjoy the counter hit or play her correctly and start zoning.
She's not a jack of all trades, she's a master of zoning and she's dangerous with whiff punishment and pushing you into a wall. She just simply needs some mechanics added to her tools to help her in the close range neutral game. As I said in my initial post, simple tools that she had in the past (which btw still left her at mid tier, she just had more options) and some other simple changes like making 6f+k cause a back turn. Its a side spinning kick, makes complete since to have it cause a BT. Just more options in general to open up the stun game, something she can't do well right now.
Also, I used to be a top 3 Hitomi player back in the day, so I got the experience and knowledge down. I know this character inside and out and most veterans here will attest to that.
Why would I do that? I've been playing her since DoA3/2U days. She's my main, she always will be and I take pride in knowing that the community for years acknowledged me as one of the top Hitomi players. There's nothing wrong with wanting her to be as good as she was back then. She got stripped down pretty hard in DoA5 to the point where she's very basic and has little to work with.
She's middle of the road. She can win in high level, but she has to try 10x harder than most due to her limitations. I never once said she's trash tier now am I making her look like trash tier. I'm simply correcting you on things that are flat out wrong. You're over estimating tools that are not that great. No offense, but you're not a high level player, you're basing things on experience of playing other mediocre players.
She is dominate on the zoning/whiff punishment. Her wall threat is terrifying. However she is not a mix up queen, she is not a low poke queen. Playing aggressive with her is just going to get you fuzzy guarded, counter hit and blown up. You have to play her conservatively and at mid range.
She definitely needs some buffs, at the very least some mechanics added to some of her tools to add threat to them and open up the neutral game a bit instead of making her a one trick wonder.
Edit:
This is extremely old footage, but here's an example.
See how I constantly stay at mid range looking for whiff punishment? When I'm forced up close I use 2p whenever I can to keep my +1 to make my 6p and 6k 12 frames and my jabs 9 frames, but I'm staying at mid range as much as possible.
Again, its old footage, I don't upload anymore as I don't play much anymore and xbox community is dead, but the core idea is still the same even if I play slightly different now to adjust for changes like the new juggle setups and obvious 3f+k doesn't guaranteed a force tech anymore (worst change ever, give me that back!)
Really ?