Something I'd like people to start testing...

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I've yet to try this out, but it sounds fun. And from the why Rikuto describes it, it reminds me of MVC2. lol!

It's not THAT overkill lol.

It feels more like VF5FS damage, but with the DOA hold system included. Getting stunned is not a happy thing. You can easily win matches by ignoring the stun game completely and just going for environmental damage too.


Also, because your opponent is dying faster... fewer wakeup kicks you have to deal with :). if you ask me, wakeup kicks probably aren't even worth using on smallest. If you just took a big ass combo into a wall, are you really gonna bank everything on a wakeup kick not getting countered on reaction? Probably not the safest move.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
How often are you actually being caught in those situations?

If you are, did you deserve it? it's not exactly common to just be perfectly lined up for that kind of situation if you're actually paying attention to the environment. Problem currently is that most people simply aren't paying attention to the environment, because its irrelevant... they have too much health to bother giving a damn.

Depends on the characters ability. A character that can do 50-60% is going to be a lot more potent than one that does 15-30%. The game just wasn't balanced around small health, so more balance issues are likely to arise.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Depends on the characters ability. A character that can do 50-60% is going to be a lot more potent than one that does 15-30%. The game just wasn't balanced around small health, so more balance issues are likely to arise.

The game wasn't balanced to begin with. Putting the fear of god behind every single attack does tend to give the mindgames some substance though.

And if we want to get technical, historically lowering the life settings has, actually, made DOA more balanced in past iterations. Mr. Wah actually proved this mathematically. I believe he has a chart somewhere.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
The game wasn't balanced to begin with.

You'd know more than I would, but small health is like high health. They're both extremes that alter character balance.

Being able to scare to damage the jesus out of someone with offense isn't difficult in normal health.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
You'd know more than I would, but small health is like high health. They're both extremes that alter character balance.

Being able to scare to damage the jesus out of someone with offense isn't difficult in normal health.

If that was true, why does everyone (much to my annoyance) still complain the game is random? Fear should be keeping player behavior honest.

See, the mechanics are solid, but its the total disregard for someones own lifebar that leads to random decision making. Obviously, people are still playing randomly. So, take away their ability to make excessive bad decisions, and you take away the problem.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Also, to put things in perspective....

If Jann lee has a setup that does 50%, and it now does 75%, he still needs two good reads to win.

If Hitomi has a setup that does 40%, and it's now doing 50%+, she went from needing three good reads to two good reads.

Thats a very tight hypothetical example, but it shows you how this kind of solution actually helps out lower tier characters.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
If that was true, why does everyone (much to my annoyance) still complain the game is random? Fear should be keeping player behavior honest.

See, the mechanics are solid, but its the total disregard for someones own lifebar that leads to random decision making. Obviously, people are still playing randomly. So, take away their ability to make excessive bad decisions, and you take away the problem.

I've seen how most people play(in fact that's why I'm dumping the PS3 version in favor of 360 for more competition), and they've got quite a ways to go.

That's probably why people hate tools like Jann's dragon gunner because it forces the opponent to regard their health and position.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I've seen how most people play(in fact that's why I'm dumping the PS3 version in favor of 360 for more competition), and they've got quite a ways to go.

That's probably why people hate tools like Jann's dragon gunner because it forces the opponent to regard their health and position.

When you get it, let me know. This is something you should experience with a good player first hand =)
 

Prince Adon

Best in the World!!!
Premium Donor
I've seen how most people play(in fact that's why I'm dumping the PS3 version in favor of 360 for more competition), and they've got quite a ways to go.

That's probably why people hate tools like Jann's dragon gunner because it forces the opponent to regard their health and position.

I'll eventually most likely be doing the samething when I get a new 360. Also hoping the online is better for me.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I'll test it this weekend in out in-house session. Might actually end up being more fun. I'm getting super bored with this game, so I need something to spice things up.
 

FakeSypha

Well-Known Member
I don't want to sound like a close minded person, but think I'll stick with 'normal'. I respect the foe enough. If anything, I need to start going more into offense. It's just a personal thing, I guess.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Problem currently is that most people simply aren't paying attention to the environment, because its irrelevant... they have too much health to bother giving a damn.

Now that you mention it, I have been shrugging off environmental damage a lot. Someone kicks me off a cliff, and I just think to myself "meh, I'll live". Sometimes with power blows too for that matter, but not that often.

Thats a very tight hypothetical example, but it shows you how this kind of solution actually helps out lower tier characters.

I'm willing to try anything that helps out the little guys.

If you're the host in ranked does it set the match to your versus settings? If so, I'll switch my max health setting to small.
 

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
I was actually thinking about this while driving the other day. Will gladly test it out. If Erik is right then even pieces of crap like Helena might get a fighting chance and I don't even want to imagine Alpha's damage. The thing is that it's gonna make me fear Bass, Bayman and Hayate even more but well. So be it.
 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
I notice a big difference between DOA4 and DOA5 in terms of health, and, I prefer the DOA5 health system to play in general. Even though you can argue that a lower health bar helps out lower tier characters by them needing two hits instead of three, you can also see it the other way around, as in, bringing the higher tier characters that need two hits up to three hits like the lower tier ones. That also helps the lower tier characters... Hypothetically.

In any case. The less first hits you need to win, the more prone to luck the matches are and the less the reading of your opponent plays a role. The more first hits you need to win and the longer the matches take, the more the difference in skill and adaptation will be apparent, since a lucky blow will have less consequences. It's the same reason I prefer three rounds over two rounds. If you have three rounds combined with two first hits per round to win, you have to get six of them, versus nine of them if you need three hits. Whoever reaches 9 hits first is a better measure of skill difference than whoever reaches 6 hits first. You can compare it to say racing or whatever. 24 laps is a better measure of skill of the drivers than 12 laps on the same track. Or, 9 innings is a better measure of team quality in baseball than 6 innings. Whatever example you want to use. There's a reason you need to win more matches in later stages of a tournament.

The main good point I agree with is the environmental damage playing a bigger role, but that can also be fixed by increasing its damage rather than lowering health. Just my thoughts. There's no harm in testing though... So go for it.

And now I'll go get my flameshield.
 

MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
I'll keep it normal, but I'll test this. I just feel there could be a lot of problems with setting it to small i.e. Bayman.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
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My previous doa4 chart showed that both low and high tiers benefitted from the reduction to smallest. The high would go from 3 to just a bit more than 1 and the low would go from 3 to 2. The fact to keep in mind was doa4s smallest was 180 and Doa5s is 240. Seems relatable in concept but with juggles averaging 90 dmg it can make a difference.

Basically, don't use a chart for a different game to validate this one. Provide damage numbers for hicounter juggles and combos to compare the various values.
 
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