Strongest Strategy Thread in the World: Leon Strategy/ Best moves

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
It's tight enough timing just to get a normal air throw. This one is also before knocking people over the wall, thew helicopter knocks them into the air just long enough to get a dash in.

I'm just gonna go through the various environmental interactions and see what can be optimized. Like right now I just found you can air throw off the Scramble car for the double DZ. Gonna see if you can combo into it.

Edit: Lol this new found combo damage is insane.

Edit 2: Totally optimized this one.

May be onto something with the top portion.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
YES. At the very least I found a no ground throw Scramble Cliffhanger combo.

Alpha - Gen Fu
Stun/CH 8PPP > WRK > 3P > 66PPP
That preview image looks badass

These aren't optimal damage but remove the breakable ground throw versions of the previous combos for only 12 points less damage:
Stun/CH 8PPP > 3P > 4K > 2T41236T.

Now we gotta find one for those non 8P starters. Bed time for me for now.

Also noticed that you have some time to free step upwards after the generator and pull off 66PPP to put your opponent into a "must run" situation. If they don't move they get knocked around by falling debris, if you run up to them too close you will get knocked around too. Not quite a Haybusa combo but it can get close (lack of relaunches can be frustrating). WRK won't get you anything on anyone there so either the 4K 2T normal or FS 66PPP for positioning.


I'll record a new unoptimized kill combo I found on Hotzone later. Tired.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Some notes about Leon's 33P 7P setups before I forget.

2 guess setup: 4PK into air throw.
3 guess setup: PP6P 4K 2T 41236T. PP6P breaches the threshold and puts the opponent into an unmoving bound that you can 4K into Dervish ground throw.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Who likes Leon's One Guess setups?
I think you all do.
On any breakable object get close 3K > 7P into his One Guess Setups. Riskier than the guaranteed breakable damage but you get to play the One Guess Game (for a bigger mindfuck than normal). You can substitute 33P for 3K if you are feeling confident for 1 more point of damage (I would recommend keeping 3K used on run ins).
If you are close against an unmoving breakable you can net the high damage with P+KT into air throw, using the One Guess lets you net over 20-30 extra damage if you can net a CB and go from there (which can net up to 80+ points of extra damage with a PB or PL in an area without a ceiling).

For Example (on NH and assuming full hit on a wall and no ceiling):
Desert Falcon > P+KT > Ait Throw to nearest wall gets 185 damage.
Desert Falcon > 3K > 7P > P+K CB uncharged > PB gets 195.
Desert Falcon > 3K > 7P > P+K CB uncharged > PL > 8PPP > WRK > Air Throw gets 228 (timed for 8PPP, upwards to 287 on HCH if you use Dervish Throw instead).
In Home or Temple:
Desert Falcon > 3K > 7P > P+K CB uncharged > PL > 3P gets 210 damage (also a no timed combo).
Desert Falcon > 3K > 7P > P+K CB uncharged > PL > P6PK gets 224 (tight delay window for P)
Keep in mind the P+K is uncharged in these situations so you can get even more damage by baiting a hold.

Also his Back Turned game isn't all that good. Best combos I can come up with (outside PL) are:
BT PP> 3K > 46P (Can only be SE'D at BT PP on Fastest)
BT 2K >3K > 46P (Can be SE'd out of BT 2K)
It's all about that Fork Maneuver.

If you are feeling lucky hitting a crouching opponent with BT 4K gets you 46P.
He doesn't get an SDS on his CH BT 4K, which is disappointing. Rachel is the only other SH who doesn't get one but she gets more advantage (+16) than Leon (+2) which is also very disappointing. But Leon has been a, for lack of better wording, very straight forward character throughout all the installments.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Get a Critical Burst? Close to the Stun Threshold? Don't feel like risking a WRK for a 3K or just a normal K launch? Feel like just messing with someone's head?
Then I have the solution for you.
Standing resets. That's right, standing resets.
Leon has them, you play Leon, so now you have them.
Let's start at the top. The optimal thing to do with Leon when he gets himself a Critical Burst is to examine his surroundings and either 8PPP or WRK into his juggle of choice. Optimal? Yes. Damaging? Even more so. Absolutely soul crushing? Not unless you are standing next to a table. Often times we have strong doubts about getting that WRK or we might not have the timing necessary to get a buffered dash for the 8PPP. With standing resets you won't have to risk dropping combos, only risk maintaining pressure in a way only Leon can. If you get yourself a Critical Burst you have multiple options available for you.

1) 33P. Yes, our #1 most useful strike ever. It crushes highs, is an i16 frame mid strike, deals 28 damage, and puts our opponent into a Sit Down Stun. All on Normal Hit. It leads to His one Guess Setups with a 7P followup, a Pseudo Unblockable setup with 3K into 46P that grants good advantage, and is just plain awesome to view from the front. So what does this wonderful Cross Slash do and how do we optimize it?
Try it out. Get a Critical Burst, hell just do two in a row. Very soon you could find yourself... in a much, much...worse situation than calls for. This strike does provide a standing reset against an opponent who has been put into a Critical Burst, knocking them a meter away from you and leaving you at...-3 or down to -7 based on Stagger Escaping. It's a reset but not a very good one. NEXT!

2) 4P. Bet you didn't see that one coming. 4P, the 16 frame tracking high punch. It has two followups, 4PK and 4P6K, deals 24 damage and leaves you at +8 to +3 on all hit types except against an aerial opponent. As a combo you are forced to guess a followup of either a high or mid kick, at higher thresholds you can get air throw in off the 4PK. Off 4P6K you are at +15 to +9 and the strike itself is semi safe at -5.
So how does this work? You can't get 4P to combo into itself so you have to go to the end of the Stun Threshold to find out. If your opponent doesn't see it coming you just nailed yourself a fairly well earned +3. If your opponent sees you scoping them out, you could be as low as -1 (which is still fairly good might I add).

3)And finally, I present his best standing reset available. The one, the only, 2P. Yes, 2P. Everybody has a standing reset 2P so this might not be as such a unique thing to be amazed at but think about it. A Critical Burst reset by a 2P from Leon. It has to be the biggest mindfuck he has next to breakable object One Guess Setups (a Leon who doesn't Air Throw might actually be a bigger one now that I think about it). But seriously, 2P. +1 on hit, leaves him crouching (an easy beginners WRK practice session), and is safe on block at -4.
Use it, abuse it, and learn to have a third standing reset at +9! That's right, +9. But what about Slow Escaping? +5 if they are on point. Not bad at all though you do knock your opponent back 1 meter. At this kind of advantage you have many options available aside from standing throws.

I may be crazy in saying these are good options to consider in the proper settings, but sometimes all Leon needs to be at is +.

Next time, what does Leon actually do in his spare time away from the ring? Does he trek across deserts in hopes of proving his worth? Does he plant flowers? Eat pizza? And though we may joke about it, is he truly a home renovator? Many questions and it is our goal to seek the truth and deliver to you, our fans, the information you desperately ask for.
I'm XZero264, and this has been another session of "Leon's Desert Tech," see you next time.
 

SweetSauceBoss

Well-Known Member
Get a Critical Burst? Close to the Stun Threshold? Don't feel like risking a WRK for a 3K or just a normal K launch? Feel like just messing with someone's head?
Then I have the solution for you.
Standing resets. That's right, standing resets.
Leon has them, you play Leon, so now you have them.
Let's start at the top. The optimal thing to do with Leon when he gets himself a Critical Burst is to examine his surroundings and either 8PPP or WRK into his juggle of choice. Optimal? Yes. Damaging? Even more so. Absolutely soul crushing? Not unless you are standing next to a table. Often times we have strong doubts about getting that WRK or we might not have the timing necessary to get a buffered dash for the 8PPP. With standing resets you won't have to risk dropping combos, only risk maintaining pressure in a way only Leon can. If you get yourself a Critical Burst you have multiple options available for you.

1) 33P. Yes, our #1 most useful strike ever. It crushes highs, is an i16 frame mid strike, deals 28 damage, and puts our opponent into a Sit Down Stun. All on Normal Hit. It leads to His one Guess Setups with a 7P followup, a Pseudo Unblockable setup with 3K into 46P that grants good advantage, and is just plain awesome to view from the front. So what does this wonderful Cross Slash do and how do we optimize it?
Try it out. Get a Critical Burst, hell just do two in a row. Very soon you could find yourself... in a much, much...worse situation than calls for. This strike does provide a standing reset against an opponent who has been put into a Critical Burst, knocking them a meter away from you and leaving you at...-3 or down to -7 based on Stagger Escaping. It's a reset but not a very good one. NEXT!

2) 4P. Bet you didn't see that one coming. 4P, the 16 frame tracking high punch. It has two followups, 4PK and 4P6K, deals 24 damage and leaves you at +8 to +3 on all hit types except against an aerial opponent. As a combo you are forced to guess a followup of either a high or mid kick, at higher thresholds you can get air throw in off the 4PK. Off 4P6K you are at +15 to +9 and the strike itself is semi safe at -5.
So how does this work? You can't get 4P to combo into itself so you have to go to the end of the Stun Threshold to find out. If your opponent doesn't see it coming you just nailed yourself a fairly well earned +3. If your opponent sees you scoping them out, you could be as low as -1 (which is still fairly good might I add).

3)And finally, I present his best standing reset available. The one, the only, 2P. Yes, 2P. Everybody has a standing reset 2P so this might not be as such a unique thing to be amazed at but think about it. A Critical Burst reset by a 2P from Leon. It has to be the biggest mindfuck he has next to breakable object One Guess Setups (a Leon who doesn't Air Throw might actually be a bigger one now that I think about it). But seriously, 2P. +1 on hit, leaves him crouching (an easy beginners WRK practice session), and is safe on block at -4.
Use it, abuse it, and learn to have a third standing reset at +9! That's right, +9. But what about Slow Escaping? +5 if they are on point. Not bad at all though you do knock your opponent back 1 meter. At this kind of advantage you have many options available aside from standing throws.

I may be crazy in saying these are good options to consider in the proper settings, but sometimes all Leon needs to be at is +.

Next time, what does Leon actually do in his spare time away from the ring? Does he trek across deserts in hopes of proving his worth? Does he plant flowers? Eat pizza? And though we may joke about it, is he truly a home renovator? Many questions and it is our goal to seek the truth and deliver to you, our fans, the information you desperately ask for.
I'm XZero264, and this has been another session of "Leon's Desert Tech," see you next time.

I was just starting to mess around with that too! Gotta try 2P x,D.
 

SweetSauceBoss

Well-Known Member
Soooo... Was messing around with his 7P on back turned opponents, which is fucking savage. Guaranteed combo, fastest stagger on. 7P, 2K, 2P+K, 3P, Air throw. Works on heavyweights. Probably can get wrK on lightweights. That 2P+K bounce tho. XD Open stance tho. Closed after 2P+K you can 4K into dervish.
 

SweetSauceBoss

Well-Known Member
Found that little combo when doing Stage Combos on sweat. The combo was 66PP, 8K, 46P into ropes, 7P on them back turned, 2K, 2P+K, 3P, Air Throw. 66PP puts him in Closed stance but then 8K brings it back to open LOL.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
I need to check that out. I've been strictly doing 4K into Dervish after 2P+K. Is this all back hit? Hopping on to check because that almost sounds like an entire back hit combo.

Edit: Holy crap, if you do it as fast as possible it IS a back hit 2P+K. You sir just won the back turned combo maker award.
So to escape the combo you have to SE at fastest AND Hold at the fastest possible time. The Holding part is extremely tricky to get but it get's you a 4K into Dervish if they hold too soon and your air throw if they don't hold at all.
You win indeed.

They have to hold correctly on this one. Panic Hold get's 4K Dervish, no Hold gets Back Hit 2P+K, proper Staggering into Hold is the only option and it all depends on how well you can buffer the 2P+K. They have to SE Fastest and Hold in an extremely tight window to Escape it. There is barely any wiggle room in this one.
 
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SweetSauceBoss

Well-Known Member
I need to check that out. I've been strictly doing 4K into Dervish after 2P+K. Is this all back hit? Hopping on to check because that almost sounds like an entire back hit combo.

Edit: Holy crap, if you do it as fast as possible it IS a back hit 2P+K. You sir just won the back turned combo maker award.
So to escape the combo you have to SE at fastest AND Hold at the fastest possible time. The Holding part is extremely tricky to get but it get's you a 4K into Dervish if they hold too soon and your air throw if they don't hold at all.
You win indeed.

They have to hold correctly on this one. Panic Hold get's 4K Dervish, no Hold gets Back Hit 2P+K, proper Staggering into Hold is the only option and it all depends on how well you can buffer the 2P+K. They have to SE Fastest and Hold in an extremely tight window to Escape it. There is barely any wiggle room in this one.

I tell ya man, working on the ultimate Leon guide. XD I'll send you what I've been working on soon.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
God forbid I find this now.

On Counter or Higher (must be this way) knock opponent into a breakable > run up really close (not joking about how close you have to be) > 3K > P+K for guaranteed CB. There MUST be a strike involved in the combo so you can't just normal throw or Dervish into it. This means strike knock back or launch into Air Throw.
It can be staggered out of at fastest but can't be held.
 
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SweetSauceBoss

Well-Known Member
God forbid I find this now.

On Counter or Higher (must be this way) knock opponent into a breakable > run up really close (not joking about how close you have to be) > 3K > P+K for guaranteed CB. There MUST be a strike involved in the combo so you can't just normal throw or Dervish into it. This means strike knock back or launch into Air Throw.
It can be staggered out of at fastest but can't be held.

Speaking of breakables, if you Desert Falcon them into one, just use 2P+K as a follow up for a guaranteed launch. DF into an object leaves them in a... backwards SDS?
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Yeah, if you get a BT Desert Falcon you can just do things normally. I just wait it out until they are about halfway turned around before I start further sit downs. More damage but you have to have the patience for it.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Regarding the Zack Bomb DZ in Fireworks. I really believe you can get an air throw off it but the timing is absolutely ridiculous like the chopper in Hot Zone. Right now the optimal combo I can get is run up and 3PP into a full wall hit.
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
Discovered a damn good follow up after knocking opponents over the barrier dangerzones found in hotzone and ends of the earth

after knocking them over do :P:,:3::P:,:4::H+P: its a must hold set up that requires them to time it since if they hold too fast the attack still connects. It works on all weight classes except super heavies.

 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Okay, breakable > 3K > 8PPP > Air Throw does not work on Super Heavies. Interestingly 8PPP > Air Throw after a breakable doesn't work at all on Super Heavies after any strike after a breakable (normal effects on everybody else). The only time it works if 8PPP is used immediately after the breakable as the followup and the third strike is holdable.
3K > 214P > Air Throw optimal for Super Heavies.

You can get a 3P in after 8PPP on Alpha and still be able to air throw her. Pretty neat how many things you can sneak in a 3P against her.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
7P 2K 7P into MULTIPLE options.
First, you have Limbo, into BT Sitdown, into another Limbo. Can he held after the 2K at fastest hold but you only get one shot otherwise opponent is put into the limbo or forward facing 7P stun based on stance. Following options assume you get the limbo, for forward stuff go nuts (can't do 66PP into air throw).

2K gets you +25 at fastest stagger.

Option 1: 9K/214P for 100/98 points NH.

Option 2: 2K into another sitdown which has it's own options-
3K for the falling bound, 66PPP for followup (95 NH) BTW I can't help but feel that 66P had its range increased at some point, you used to have to delay the P to get it but now you can go crazy with it.
CB (67+ based on if you charge and your opponent holds inside the stun window, use appropriate CB combo)
9K/214P Air Throw (106/104 respectively, 214P for Super Heavies) based on stagger you can get a BT launch.
8PPP (Air Throw if they are forward facing, 3PP if you get them back facing. Hard to tell the difference at times but keep distance in mind, closer when launched air throw).
Punish a panic Hold.
Can also use Sweet Sauce's 2P+K shenanigans after 2K as well. Either launch or bound, respond accordingly.

Option 3: Mind is fried, your turn.



Don't go for 2K if you get a normal Desert Falcon on a breakable, knocks them down.
 
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SweetSauceBoss

Well-Known Member
@Gurimmjaw found out that 1P after 2K gives +19-20 on fastest stagger escape which guarantees 3P, 214P, 9K and I forget what else. But no SE only gives +15 XD, care to explain your findings?
 
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