Team Ninja Twitter

[Einzelkind]

There are 'higher ups' in a free community?
2) I personally don't care whether it's 3-point or 4-point. It makes no matter to me. I just think it's easier to not second-guess yourself when thinking "which launcher am I going to use" instead of just reading "Should I launch?". That's just me though, apparently everyone else just wants to play an unnecessary additional guessing game.

I see where you are coming from, but the "Should I launch?"-question still stands even with the 4-point hold. I'm happy about the additional "which one?"-question. I don't think this kind of guessing game is unnecessary if the attacker and, I guess, most characters will benefit from it by being given more offensive options. The positive changes made to the general hold properties hopefully still stand.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I see where you are coming from, but the "Should I launch?"-question still stands even with the 4-point hold. I'm happy about the additional "which one?"-question. I don't think this kind of guessing game is unnecessary if the attacker and, I guess, most characters will benefit from it by being given more offensive options. The positive changes made to the general hold properties hopefully still stand.

Again, it's just a personal thing, because the 4-point leads me to second guess my already potential second guess from launching.

Should I launch? Did I condition him enough? Is he smart enough to be conditioned? Is he just reacting? Does he think I'll throw instead?

Yes.

-3 point ends here-

Which should I use to launch? Did I condition him enough to expect the previous launch? Is he smart enough to be conditioned? Is he just playing the odds? Is he just used to someone launching with a specific launcher of this character? Is he just reacting? Does he think I'll throw instead?

-4 point ends here-

But again, maybe it's just me and I'd rather just end it on the 3-point level as it just increases the chances of me second/triple/quadruple guessing myself.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

You'll never understand at that rate Emperor, you seem to be one of the very few to not appreciate the reason of why both Advance/Normal Holds were added. Hopefully someone will hands on explain it to you and or the E3 build will open up your eyes more and you'll be like..."Now I understand"...that amazing video you made had me thinking you knew a hella lot about DOA and it's Alpha build so with the adding of 4-Point Holds I was sure you'll know the competitive reason as to why it makes since to have both Advance and Normal Holds...but if you didn't understand what people like Rikuto, CW, Grap3, Sorwah, Rannsu, DrDogg, and etc have been saying all this time then I guess you waiting for the E3 build will help you get to the same page as them.......

it seems you didnt get what i was saying ...
mr. wah did tho .. lol

never mind ..
moving on

 

[grap3fruitman]

You should wait a week...

Yeah, that's when VF5FS comes out. =P

 

[Master_Thespian]

You should wait a week...

I still think the change to 4 point hold is unnecessary, but if you say there's good stuff coming at E3 I'll trust you.

Yeah, that's when VF5FS comes out. =P

Ha!

 

[grap3fruitman]

One of the changes I mentioned the other day is regarding holds. We got a lot of feedback on holds from around the world.

The Alpha Demo used 3-point holds: high, mid, low. But the version this time uses 4-point holds: high, mid P, mid K, low.

4-point holds work really well for game balance, but I was worried that beginners couldn't pull off mid kick holds.

But all of the feedback we got from players with the Alpha Demo gave me the final nudge to go with 4-point.

Of course, we will make it so new players can still have fun with 4-point holds.

I had some beginners on the team try it out, and they said that they could use 4-point holds with a little practice.

So I'm thinking of putting in an opportunity that gives that little bit of practice.

Thinking back to my own experience, it wasn't like I was able to do holds perfectly from the start either.

There are a lot of moves, so I practiced by focusing on holding mid punches since they are relatively common.

Once I could hold those, I practiced mid K holds by holding wakeup kicks.

There are also low wakeup kicks, so I could also practice switching between the mid K and low holds.

Now I'm pretty good at holding wakeup kicks, so I know that others can do it if they practice.

And once you get the hang of it, holds make the game a lot more fun.

There are other changes too, but dev work is keeping me pretty busy. Maybe I'll talk about some of the other changes at E3!

 

[Matt Ponton]

 

[Raansu]

Because is so difficult to press?

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Because is so difficult to press?

its not about that its difficult to press ..
this is an issue alot of beginners have with doa ...
when trying out the game for the first time .. you tell them theres high mid and low ... then ...
you tell them mid attacks are punished differently if they're punch or kick ... alot of people get lost with it ... so the question comes up .. why the hell is it just the kicks ? and why is it just the mid kicks ? etc ...

eventually they get the hang of it ...

but 3 point is much easier to understand ... as that issue is never there ...

but like i said i got no issue with both systems ... and I welcome either one .. (if done correctly)

 

[Rikuto]

And the answer is "Because mid attacks are the most common".

There you go, you just silenced every newb who had a problem with the concept behind 4 point holds.

Furthermore you don't balance a game towards newbs... thats TERRIBLE game design that leads a game nowhere competitively. You can make accommodations but you can't design a core mechanic like that.

 

[Kronin]

Furthermore you don't balance a game towards newbs... thats TERRIBLE game design that leads a game nowhere competitively. You can make accommodations but you can't design a core mechanic like that.

This is surely true, but at the same time like it's necessary to create a competitive game for competitive players, it's also necessary don't make the game with an approach too difficult for the beginners. A competitive game considered too complex could persuade many beginners -potential great players- to not play the game with the result of a lack of a competitive/tournament scene in the overview of the fighting games. I't's always necessary to consider also the so called "casual" players, it's an hard bilance to make for the game-producers.

Anyway mine want be a generic speech, not related to the question of 3/4 holds points. In this respecti I read all the post in the topic since the TN tweets and for all your proposed reasons at this moment I think, like before this change, that there isn't a choice totally advantageous than the other but both have own pro and con.

 

[Kronin]

. Until then, recognize that even Emperor Cow who seems to be standing on a lone island with his opinion got his videos front-paged.

For correctness and to give all the deserved credit, I would add also a really big effort by Emperor Cow (there is a valid reason if it took so long to post this series of video)

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Well if you actually put some thought into your posts instead of venomous drivel and made-up bullshit maybe one day you'll actually be able to make that claim. Until then, recognize that even Emperor Cow who seems to be standing on a lone island with his opinion got his videos front-paged.

I AM HAPPY ABOUT 4 POINT .. SHEESH ...

just addressed a few concerns on the matter ...

and i am ok about 3 point ... not fussed ...

im on the same island as u guys .. lol

 

[grap3fruitman]

I AM HAPPY ABOUT 4 POINT .. SHEESH ...
im on the same island as u guys .. lol

Why are you getting upset? Rikuto's merely stating that despite you disagreeing on some points with a lot of the members here, your content still gets put on the front page.

 

[DrDogg]

Heck, even Ratiz was front-paged as well. Not like you really get anything for being front-paged...

I was told you get to be a "higher-up" if you're front-paged.

 

[Rikuto]

Higher-ups get all the bitches. Lower-downs get to be the bitches.

Fact.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Yea, I've got more disagreements with you than anyone recently, even if we're both content with the end product. Point was than you'll get front paged anyway despite those disagreements. Just pointing that out and debunking Relius's nonsense, nothing more.

lol ok .. now wheres my tropical drink? this islands getting kinda warm

 

[Xion]

wait so the 4 point counters are back? cool, I really preferred that. I also like the advanced counters. I personally would like all counters to work that way.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

wait so the 4 point counters are back? cool, I really preferred that. I also like the advanced counters. I personally would like all counters to work that way.

You should play arcade DOA2. Four-point holds that require two directional inputs.

 

[Xion]

Yea I never played on arcade, only on consoles. I cant play with an arcade stick at all. I wouldnt mind making it that way. Just my opinion and of course I love the game as is.