He's doing the jerk off animation. That's b+F for you.
I'm guessing he's doing it with Bayman. He sounded pretty rough.
OOMPH!
I'm guessing he's doing it with Bayman. He sounded pretty rough.
OOMPH!
Team Ninja Twitter
- Thread starter Raansu
- Start date
They're specifically talking about spamming the hold.
I've also asked a friend of mine to translate the text regarding DOA5 that Mr. Wah made an article. I'll post it when I get it.
I've also asked a friend of mine to translate the text regarding DOA5 that Mr. Wah made an article. I'll post it when I get it.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
For a frame of reference, Jann Lee'staunt/hold is 14/30/46 in 3.1. Fourteen initial frames for a hold in a DOA game?! My goodness.
14/30/46? I'd prefer not.
14 frame execution is a bit much, even if it inflicts a ton of damage. I don't think any of the counters should have more than 10 frames of execution. 30 frame active window is a big no. I don't want to see any counters with more than 10 active frames. Even 46 recovery frames seems like a bit much. Maybe if you can take 50% damage with the counter, but in any other scenario, I don't think you need more than about 30 recovery frames at the most. That's more than enough time to punish with whatever you want.
Do you mean it sounds like how Tekken counters work? If so, that's not the case at all. The average Tekken counter is 3/4/0 (the recovery could be off, but it's definitely less than 4 frames). Using a counter in Tekken is generally considered safe unless the opponent is attacking at a different height right as you counter. If you whiff a counter in Tekken, you're not going to get punished, but you also have a very small window to connect the counter, and even if it connects, the opponent can still escape.
I wasn't suggesting that be the actual frame data for the holds in DOA5; I was merely posting that to give people a perspective as to what the one hold that doesn't come out instantly looks like.
I would like holds to have maybe 9 or 10 intial frames. My thought process is that you wouldn't be able to hold punches for 50+ damage and only hold slower attacks for damage after recognizing their intial animations. 9 or 10 though is still a bit much and obviously we'd need to test this to see if it would work.
How about bringing back the parry as well and giving that 3, 4 or 5 intial frames? You could still throw off your opponent mashing punches and other fast moves but you would gain minimal return at the same time. Again, this would need testing to determine if it's even plausible.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
That'd be pretty disfunctional. I think that kind of system would actually instigate MORE guessing, since basically nothing could be reacted to... but you would still get this huge window that'd make people want to use it.
Anyway there are quite a few ways to properly fix the hold.
I kind of want to try them all, just to see how DOA 5 would play with severely gimped active windows.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Ohhh
I thought people were actually talking about throws in where it's around 12-15 frames and 14 for break window. I think doa throws are somewhere around 6-8 frames. It was a bad joke anyway.
Regarding counters, elbows and knees cannot be countered. When I see an Asuka player holding her counter for long, as a Heihachi player, I can do f+3 to take advantage of that mistake and there's always chickening if I'm paying attention to previous inputs. Really, only a few characters can fully take advantage of countering, like the Kazamas (Jun & Asuka as of Tag2) who have a weak punishing game. That makes counters something you'd use to put your opponent off jabbing back your jabs or just doing the same string. In doa it's different, since everyone can deal massive damage and you get badly punished by even the scrubbiest players if they guess right and take half your life throwing you into explosives and all kids of shit that ruin your day.
Now, this kind of thing in doa wouldn't sit well with players if you could chicken out of counters, unless it's a really small window like a just frame or something. Having a universal counter system seems to attract Soul Cal players apparently, who are in turn put off by Tekken having a universal low parry but no universal counter.
-I wouldn't mind if you can chicken, only if you receive some type of damage(minimal) for being caught......or....chickening out could result in the hold becoming a parry, with the escapee being in medium disadvantage.
R4712-VR88
Active Member
What do you mean by chicken? Is that like a way to cancel out of something?
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
The way DOA works, throws should not be breakable. As it stands, the only way you get guaranteed punishment is a throw. If you can break that, then the game loses any form of punishment. Now if that changes so you can punish unsafe attacks with a launcher, then I agree that all throws should be breakable. I'd prefer to see a VF-style break system though. The way Tekken's throw break system works, throws are not viable in high level play. I don't want to see DOA's throws no longer viable... unless it's Busa (he can die in a fire with that Izuna off the bridge).
Chickens are already pretty much just frame timing. You have to buffer the chicken into your attack if you want a high chance of escaping the counter. And I'm sorry, but from a competitive standpoint, SC players do not prefer the DOA counter system over Tekken's counter/low parry system. I play SC and Tekken at a competitive level and while you see the universal low parry fairly often in Tekken, you don't see Guard Impacts in SC nearly as much. In fact, in an average high level match, you can probably count the number of GIs on one hand.
So... I chicken your counter and I'm at disadvantage? If I chicken, I should either be at advantage or we should be neutral. Why would you reward the person countering for being read by the other player?
"Chicken" in Tekken is the term used to escape a counter.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
That would work, but I'd still like to see punishment other than throws and counters. If I block an attack, I want to launch you... or at least start a combo.
-Risk vs reward. Unlike TK every character has a universal hold set, is severely punished by throws and more than likely a hold will be used defensively. What skill would it really take to enter a chicken command during an attack's recovery? Every player would just buffer a chicken after an attack making Holds useless. Giving the holder a little amount of damage or some frame advantage would allow holds to have some type of defensive/strategic use.