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Brad Wong is a fuckton better than Marie Rose.
Oh yay, gameplay. My favorite subject.
Well, the essence of Marie Rose is that she is basically 100% safe. Throw punishing her will happen once in a blue moon. Now, that would be extremely threatening, except that her strings don't have a bunch of delay capacity or mix-up (her only valid low trips are PP6K2K / 6K/2K which is actually reactable offline with 6K being 17 frames, and the low P from flower wheel). This means that for the most part, she's crutched with finishing strings. For example, aside from a charged PB, she has nothing that leaves her neutral or +frames on block. Her mid is 12 frames, so even if you're a 13 frame midder, offline she can't just toss out some shit and then mash out of it.
Now, what her goal is is to trick you into thinking she's helpless when she's not. Since she's so safe, after she finishes a string, she has a few options:
1) Rondo
2) More mash
3) Tick throws
4) BT T OH
5) Minuet
Okay, so:
1) Rondo is kinda one of those gimmicky things that might trap you if you mash P/6P, but let's take a real look at it. Note that her transitions into this stance are slight negatives on guard. So her immediate mid from it (K) is 17 frames and won't really be CH poking you unless you react terribly slow, due to the inherent sinking negative. Her other options are PP and BT transition into T. The first Rondo P is a high and so is the BT T, as all standing throws/OHs are). So basically, if you see her enter Rondo, immediately go with a quick-ish crush (almost everyone's 2P will do fine), ideally one that's not a mid or high P (due to the rondo sabaki) and you'll shut down Rondo every time.
2) More mash doesn't work for obvious reasons described before and below (same way tick throws are blown up). Especially given that she's very heavy on the highs, and likes to remain using the same few strings, as they have the lowest sinking negatives. For most characters, this means you can crush her (for Hayabusa it means you get Izuna holds for days).
3) This is a favorite of a lot of Marie Rose players, and there are two ways it can work: 1) Against noobs 2) In lag. In an honest fight this will never work and here's why: Like I said before, her string delays and mix-ups against a standing guard just aren't that formidable. So she's either going to use a fairly obvious free-cancel, or is going to try a tick throw after finishing a "safe" string. The former should be stopped at "obvious," and the latter is only going to work if you view "safe" as "neutral/+" But remember, she has no neutral/+ frames on block. So why you would just sit there and let yourself be tick thrown could only be explained by lack of frame knowledge. Remember, she is safe but negative. When you block a string, you should be attack retaliating. She won't mid crush you or any crazy shit like that. And if she keeps trying tick throws after finishing strings, she'll get HiC struck all day long. And with a brain, she'll stop.
To elaborate further, with Hayabusa, if I do PP4P, my string options from there are a high punch, mid punch, silly mid kick and a tracking low punch (- on NH but +trip on CH and crushes high). Now, I have a nice delay window here after 4P for each of these attacks, but all of them are unsafe and can be soundly beaten with a standing guard. Thus, due to the fact that I can delay attacks and you can beat all these options with a standing guard, you want to block. Thus, a tick throw here is a valid option (obviously fuzzying is the proper response here, but fuzzy beats everything Hayabusa has 100% of the time anyway, so eh). Marie Rose doesn't have these delays/mix-ups in her strings, nor does she after her strings. So tick throwing with her doesn't work as well as it does for other characters.
4) One of her only two threatening options from neutral. Online this can be a bitch, but I explained in point 1 how you should be dealing with her if she transitions backwards.
5) And alas, here were are. Her only really threatening option that you really do have to validly look out for. This shit evades everything. As a standalone attack it moves her about 75 degrees around her opponent. If she evades an attack you toss out, it magically changes into 180 degrees and she's at your back. This really is a bitch to deal with, but all things considered, her best neutral game mix-up is a 50/50 of "is she gonna Minuet?" But look at other characters and imagine that their most threatening options from neutral are a 50/50 between mash and a command sidestep. Not too scary, eh? Bayman alone's got that and a bunch more. So yeah, Minuet is a valid option, but she's crutching on it. Big time.
So, it is true that once she opens you up (ie: you're stunned!) she does have pretty straightforward, braindead ways to net impressive damage. Her damaging combos are pretty braindead and universal among weight classes (with only slight alterations), and she gets nice guarantees. And this is nice except she has another weakness: her spacing is horrible. Her range options are as follows:
A) 236P
B) Flower Wheel
C) Minuet / Minuet Butt Battle
A) This is a high. And throw punishable. Derp.
B) Chances are your character has some universal way to shut this shit down (2P, certain 7Ks, 3T OHs etc.) You can get trapped into a CH if you time/space yourself wrong, but if you're on point, Flower Wheel should not be hitting you, and is really only a threat as an oki tool.
C) Honestly, this is her best long-range option as well as her best close range option. She wants you to charge in, and then she'll minuet you, like always, and try to retaliate, often with a butt slam given that gap-closing attacks generally have enough recovery frames and distance lurch that the butt slam becomes a valid punish. And honestly, this is a valid strategy. But again, she's relying on the damn Minuet, and your approach in neutral can be simplified to "Will she Minuet?" and this 50/50 can only get her so far.
In this game, the ability to excel in the neutral game, the ability to blanket the opponent's options and the gift of mix-ups really dominate. She doesn't have these. Her neutral game is ass. So it's not like she's unplayable, as once she options you up, she's got some nice junk to work with. But characters who stink in the neutral game are those who wind up lower with this game's tier list.
So yeah. That's why Marie Rose is one of the worst characters in this game.
