The DOA5U "Casual" thread. ^__^

[Brute]

When i say buff i don't mean make them horrendously op u__u
for helena as an example in bokohu instead of tapping 22 for it to be evasive you just hold 2

That's OP. Think about this for a second. Comapre evasive stance options.
Bokuho always crushes highs. It can crush mids with a tap. This tap has a fast initiation and quick recovery. It cannot be thrown, let alone HiC thrown, or snagged with standing OHs, mids or highs. Ducking a move in this manner leaves you at positive frames, in range for any number of follow-ups for retaliation.
Hayabusa's ongyoin crushes high in very few frames. Ongyoin H parries mid/high. Often, the recovery on the move IF SUCCESSFUL still leaves him at negative frames, and the distance may leave him unable to follow it with anything. It also has huge recovery frames in addition to the active frames. It can be HiC thrown or Counter OH'd.
And now you want you to be able to hold 2 for as long as you damn well please? Risk free? No. You have to factor in risk-reward. You already have minimal risk for high reward, and you want to send it into overdrive. That's crazy.

Rachel has no way to open people up other then throws and mids/highs, if she has a quick low that made a trip stun without going into the stance it would be a lot better for her

lets go with our favorite ninja hayabusa again

Hayabusa has JACK SHIT. 3K2K is too slow to ever work, and it sends to opponent too far to actually follow it up with any real pressure. Also it's +0 with stagger escaping. 1P2K has no mix-up, only +7, sits the opponent far away, meaning any follow-up is wasted on frames walking over there. you literally get bunked out of any option if the opponent goes the ninja 7K route. At BEST you're attacking a guarded opponent again (that place Ryu really struggles?). 2H+K is same thing. You don't get these from jab strings or whatever. They're just there and stupid. Oh, and you have 33K (lolz).

Rachel's lows are GODLY compared to Hayabusa's.

 

[Klts3]

If there really are new moves, I hope that Rachel's Hot Zone jumping kick finally can be normally performed. I would be or .

 

[FatalxInnocence]

Can't you PP F 3T and shut down Kokoro SS K?

Koko's SS P would also work against Rachel, since I'm fairly sure her SS P has high evasion properties... and that damn heichu hahaha. I know 33P with Kokoro has sometimes evaded specific highs. So I'm not sure if it's a high crush, or if it's just beats out certain highs.

That's OP. Think about this for a second. Comapre evasive stance options.
Bokuho always crushes highs. It can crush mids with a tap. This tap has a fast initiation and quick recovery. It cannot be thrown, let alone HiC thrown, or snagged with standing OHs, mids or highs. Ducking a move in this manner leaves you at positive frames, in range for any number of follow-ups for retaliation.
Hayabusa's ongyoin crushes high in very few frames. Ongyoin H parries mid/high. Often, the recovery on the move IF SUCCESSFUL still leaves him at negative frames, and the distance may leave him unable to follow it with anything. It also has huge recovery frames in addition to the active frames. It can be HiC thrown or Counter OH'd.
And now you want you to be able to hold 2 for as long as you damn well please? Risk free? No. You have to factor in risk-reward. You already have minimal risk for high reward, and you want to send it into overdrive. That's crazy.


This is a joke, right? She has PP2K, 2H+K, 8P+KK, 1P (delay), etc.

Hayabusa has JACK SHIT. 3K2K is too slow to ever work, and it sends to opponent too far to actually follow it up with any real pressure. Also it's +0 with stagger escaping. 1P2K has no mix-up, only +7, sits the opponent far away, meaning any follow-up is wasted on frames walking over there. you literally get bunked out of any option if the opponent goes the ninja 7K route. At BEST you're attacking a guarded opponent again (that place Ryu really struggles?). 2H+K is same thing. You don't get these from jab strings or whatever. They're just there and stupid. Oh, and you have 33K (lolz).

Rachel's lows are GODLY compared to Hayabusa's.

Are you... suggesting Rachel is better than Ryu? or am I mis-reading this... o_o;;

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

Brute thinks everyone is better than Ryu mechanics wise

 

[Brute]

Are you... suggesting Rachel is better than Ryu? or am I mis-reading this... o_o;;

I'm not getting into a tier war here.

What I am saying is that opening someone up is much easier with Rachel than it is with Hayabusa.\

Brute thinks everyone is better than Ryu mechanics wise

No I don't.

 

[Klts3]

The problem about Rachel&Ryu match-up is that Ryu loves countering Rachel's OH with Izuna. It's so mean!

 

[Brute]

The problem about Rachel&Ryu match-up is that Ryu loves countering Rachel's OH with Izuna. It's so mean!

This isn't a match-up discussion. I only used Ryu as an example to demonstrate that Rachel has ways of opening people up that certain other characters can only dream of.

Oh, and that Helena doesn't need an indefinite bokuho duck.

 

[Yurlungur]

That's OP. Think about this for a second. Comapre evasive stance options.
Bokuho always crushes highs. It can crush mids with a tap. This tap has a fast initiation and quick recovery. It cannot be thrown, let alone HiC thrown, or snagged with standing OHs, mids or highs. Ducking a move in this manner leaves you at positive frames, in range for any number of follow-ups for retaliation.
Hayabusa's ongyoin crushes high in very few frames. Ongyoin H parries mid/high. Often, the recovery on the move IF SUCCESSFUL still leaves him at negative frames, and the distance may leave him unable to follow it with anything. It also has huge recovery frames in addition to the active frames. It can be HiC thrown or Counter OH'd.
And now you want you to be able to hold 2 for as long as you damn well please? Risk free? No. You have to factor in risk-reward. You already have minimal risk for high reward, and you want to send it into overdrive. That's crazy.


This is a joke, right? She has PP2K, 2H+K, 8P+KK, 1P (delay), etc.

Hayabusa has JACK SHIT. 3K2K is too slow to ever work, and it sends to opponent too far to actually follow it up with any real pressure. Also it's +0 with stagger escaping. 1P2K has no mix-up, only +7, sits the opponent far away, meaning any follow-up is wasted on frames walking over there. you literally get bunked out of any option if the opponent goes the ninja 7K route. At BEST you're attacking a guarded opponent again (that place Ryu really struggles?). 2H+K is same thing. You don't get these from jab strings or whatever. They're just there and stupid. Oh, and you have 33K (lolz).

Rachel's lows are GODLY compared to Hayabusa's.

2+h+k trades a lot, You can be knocked out of a random sidestep, pp2k doesn't open you up
1p is only good on counter and a lot of people would rather do 1pp instead of using it for a counter hit.
If rachel's lows are considered godly, then i suggest you ask them to buff ryu's lows

as for helena
Then why is okay that brad wong gets one, he can crush just as good as helena? You can be low thrown out of bokuho so it doesn't matter how you low profile you still will get low thrown from that stance. You're still a victim at that point to true mids and lows so no, it's not risk free at all. I'm not saying that it should be a get out of jail free card but an evasive stance should be evasive. The only thing she should be able to do is 2k from holding 2.

 

[Klts3]

I know, but we don't have anything to talk about. Phase 4 trailer needs to come out or this thread will become combination of 30 other threads.

 

[FatalxInnocence]

I'm not getting into a tier war here.

What I am saying is that opening someone up is much easier with Rachel than it is with Hayabusa.

It's not as easy as you're making it out to be. Her stuns on NH are resets. They aren't enough to give her the upper hand since she doesn't have speed on her side. She's a slow strike based character. No crazy counters, her only good throw is 236T. She might have 2 lows which may be better than Ryu's.... however she doesn't have Izuna throws, counters and great mobility. She can be out poked a lot of the time, and a lot of her moves leave her in negative frame on block. So you're forced to use her strings- which limit you to 3PPP and 4PP - both mid punches and I guess you could go for a PP string if your heart desires... but that's all she has in her block string variety... which is not much at all.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

then i suggest you ask them to buff ryu's lows

LMFAO yeah Brute why dont you and the other Ryu players ask for better lows. might help im not sure why youve never thought of it before.

Bayman still doesnt have great lows, but combined with 1pp and you can mess someone up without them dropping their guard.

 

[Brute]

It's not as easy as you're making it out to be. Her stuns on NH are resets. They aren't enough to give her the upper hand since she doesn't have speed on her side. She's a slow strike based character. No crazy counters, her only good throw is 236T. She might have 2 lows which may be better than Ryu's.... however she doesn't have Izuna throws, counters and great mobility. She can be out poked a lot of the time, and a lot of her moves leave her in negative frame on block. So you're forced to use her strings- which limit you to 3PPP and 4PP - both mid punches and I guess you could go for a PP string if your heart desires... but that's all she has in her block string variety... which is not much at all.

This isn't a match-up discussion. I only used Ryu as an example to demonstrate that Rachel has ways of opening people up that certain other characters can only dream of.

^

LMFAO yeah Brute why dont you and the other Ryu players ask for better lows. might help im not sure why youve never thought of it before.

This is sarcasm, right?

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

This is sarcasm, right?

naw were online sarcasm doesn't exists on here remember?

 

[FatalxInnocence]

This isn't a match-up discussion.

This has nothing to do with match ups. You're the one who decided to originally compare Ryu to Rachel, not me. The idea that Ryu has less to work with than Rachel is ridiculous.

 

[Klts3]

Looking at this I have no idea why all Rachel threads are dead.

 

[Brute]

naw were online sarcasm doesn't exists on here remember?

If that were true I wouldn't post nearly as much as I do.

This has nothing to do with match ups. You're the one who decided to originally compare Ryu to Rachel, not me. The idea that Ryu has less to work with than Rachel is ridiculous.

That's not what I said. Again, you're comparing tools that are entirely outside the case in point, which is, as a reminder: how to open some up. That's all I'm discussing. Ryu has a godly stun game, but I'm not here to talk about any of that shit. Neutral game. Opening someone up. Lows. String mix-up. Hit levels. That's what I'm talking about. Ryu was just an example to illustrate how other characters are coping with the neutral game, not some point of focus.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Hey. It's a 17f low that gives frame advantage. Don't push your luck. You can complain when the next patch makes it -8 on hit.

 

[Brute]

Hey. It's a 17f low that gives frame advantage. Don't push your luck. You can complain when the next patch makes it -8 on hit.

What attack are you talking about?

 

[FatalxInnocence]

Looking at this I have no idea why all Rachel threads are dead.

Hmm, I generally don't view the character threads unless I have advice to give or if I need help with something. Everybody knows how to play Rachel, and I don't need help with her gameplay so I don't really go there much xD

If that were true I wouldn't post nearly as much as I do. That's not what I said. Again, you're comparing tools that are entirely outside the case in point, which is, as a reminder: how to open some up. That's all I'm discussing. Ryu has a godly stun game, but I'm not here to talk about any of that shit. Neutral game. Opening someone up. Lows. String mix-up. Hit levels. That's what I'm talking about. Ryu was just an example to illustrate how other characters are coping with the neutral game, not some point of focus.

Hmmmmmkay. My brains blank at the moment, so I'll give you this one.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Rachel's 2H+K. It's 17f isn't it?