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The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

NightAntilli

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
TakedaZX said:
Speaking of Ryu's crushes, He's got hop overs, like all the ninja's do...

OH WAIT. Hayate doesn't. The fuck is this shit man. -.-
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Hayate's :214::P: jumps over everything, including some highs. You can use it to avoid both wake-up kicks for example, although the timing is strict.
:3::F+K: crushes lows
:214::K: also crushes lows, but it takes a while and is not instant, so, it's less reliable.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Jann Lee: RED is what can be countered.
F+K > 1PK > 6P+K CB!
6PP > F+K > 6P+K CB!

These combo's can't even be slow escaped. Why does Jann Lee get to completely by pass the stun game and guarantee huge damage after so few hits? This character is pure fucking laziness. I don't know how Jann Lee mains can say he is overrated and MID Tier at best!?

Then again Busa mains wouldn't admit their character was BS in DOA4 and DOA5 Jann Lee is a hell of a lot better than he was. TN should not buff every character up to Jann Lee's level, it's great you can't counter out of everything but one missed counter and you're guaranteed to lose over half your health bar? That's taking it too far.
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
NightAntilli said:
Hayate's :214::P: jumps over everything, including some highs. You can use it to avoid both wake-up kicks for example, although the timing is strict.
:3::F+K: crushes lows
:214::K: also crushes lows, but it takes a while and is not instant, so, it's less reliable.
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Ah that is indeed true, then again you are risking Hi counter damage combos off of that wake up kick if you do :214::P:. The other ninja's hop overs are more solid because if you get over them, you get a free attack because of the disadvantage + backturned disadvantage.
 
J.D.E.

J.D.E.

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
quote="Jefffcore, post: 70031, member: 308"]Zack has none of those.[/quote
None of what?
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
Jann Lee: RED is what can be countered.
F+K > 1PK > 6P+K CB!
6PP > F+K > 6P+K CB!

These combo's can't even be slow escaped. Why does Jann Lee get to completely by pass the stun game and guarantee huge damage after so few hits? This character is pure fucking laziness. I don't know how Jann Lee mains can say he is overrated and MID Tier at best!?

Then again Busa mains wouldn't admit their character was BS in DOA4 and DOA5 Jann Lee is a hell of a lot better than he was. TN should not buff every character up to Jann Lee's level, it's great you can't counter out of everything but one missed counter and you're guaranteed to lose over half your health bar? That's taking it too far.
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LOL I call bullshit. He's high tier because of that damage mixed with those stuns, on top of the fact that he's got a some what adept mixup game with them guaranteed setups.
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
HiguraShiki said:
I take it Brad sucks then? You pretty much described Brad to the fullest.
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-sigh- Brad isn't single strikes, he's 2 at the worst for his mixups and lets stop ignoring the mid crushing madness that goes down.

Stop bringing our argument to other topics, it's getting annoying. If you wanna talk about it, there's a messaging system for you.

HiguraShiki said:
I honestly just can't see Zack having any favorable matchup at all. Everything he does in general is just done better by a majority of the cast.
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Favorable... I'd say he's favored against Ryu, probably 6-4. Pretty much all of Ryu's linear options or aerial options can be stuffed by Zack's any of zack's moves, preferably 6p or 7k because 7k will put 8p and 8T to shame while 6p will quickly dispatch 8k ON REACTION. Those options can be sidewalked anyway.

Only thing Zack can't stuff from Ongyion is 6P+K and he has a bit of trouble with 6k at times but for the most part Ongyion 6k will still lose.

Zack is also quicker than Ryu, his fastest mid coming in at 10 frames, mid comes in at 11, and 13 frames for his lp which can transition right into duck. You sit there and underestimate Zack's speed, you're gunna have a bad time. Also Zack's best attacks are kicks, so the izuna hold isn't exactly always a factor, considering I can reach Critical Burst with Zack with JUST kicks and knees.

Where Ryu can take over is with the deep stuns. That pretty much puts anyone into a must hold situation. Also Ryu has easy ways into guard breaks.

I'll take 5-5 on most matchups, probably even this one but it's very apparent where Zack shines.
 
MasterHavik

MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
Jefffcore said:
Jann Lee's 1p can be held after H+K. Or you can just SE and 1p puts him at disadvantage I believe (if not the follow up is unsafe). Best option is H+K, 6k, H+K, CB.

Zack has no parries or sabakis.
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Geez really? I didn't know...man you're so smart Jeff....


OF COURSE HE DOESN'T YOU FOOL! Did you just figure that out?

But here's the thing, while it would be cool for him to have one and such . He doesn't really need it to be awesome an OH is more useful than a parry or sabakis(Which is only good if your lei fang or Gen fu) .
 
Allan Paris

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Ok, anymore post that are not talking about character match ups will be removed. take it to the PM's.

I'll help some of you out.

Eliot Vs. Zack: 5-5?

Hayate Vs. Hitomi: 5-5?

Leifang Vs. Bayman: 6-4 (Leifang)?

Feel free to discuss these or speak on the ones you know about. Facts are key, not what you think or feel is right.
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Allan Paris said:
Ok, anymore post that are not talking about character match ups will be removed. take it to the PM's.

I'll help some of you out.

Eliot Vs. Zack: 5-5?

Hayate Vs. Hitomi: 5-5?

Leifang Vs. Bayman: 6-4 (Leifang)?

Feel free to discuss these or speak on the ones you know about. Facts are key, not what you think or feel is right.
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Interesting take on Zack vs Eliot. In theory, it seems just about right, Zack takes Eliot in speed but can be easily parried. His backturned sweep is also quick so on a mid punch/mid kick hold the partially guaranteed 7p would be damn near completely useless. I'll look into it. Can I get some matches on your Eliot sometime over the the christmas season?
 
U_C_A_F

U_C_A_F

Well-Known Member
im going from personal experience since i have yet to fight a high level zack player yet and the small few i did fight i deal with easily since they mostly tend to spam his mid/low rapid kicks which are easy to counter/block. zack is overall faster but eliot is well-equipped to deal with in your face rushdown characters like him. 7p will shut down zacks jab pressure and his parries deal with his mid attacks. zack doesn't really have any way to stop eliots pressure other than blocking/holding, he also doesen't have decent mid/long range game which is eliots weakness so he pretty much has to get in eliots face to do anything which is what eliot player wants.

damage-wise eliot has the upper hand since he specializes in damaging juggles and gets easy access to maximum launch height with a simple 236h+p throw into his bnb juggles, throw in a hi-counter and dangerzones which he easily has access to with instant 3p refloating opponents across the stage then its clear eliot deals more damage than zack with easier access to that damage.

evasive characters are eliots kryptonite and zack doesn't have much going for him in that category, all his transitions in to sway stance are easily interruptable. overall eliot has the tools to deal with zack while having higher damage output without having put up with being easily evaded/crushed/outspaced which is eliots main weakness

so my final answer for eliot/zack 6-4 eliot
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
U_C_A_F said:
im going from personal experience since i have yet to fight a high level zack player yet and the small few i did fight i deal with easily since they mostly tend to spam his mid/low rapid kicks which are easy to counter/block. zack is overall faster but eliot is well-equipped to deal with in your face rushdown characters like him. 7p will shut down zacks jab pressure and his parries deal with his mid attacks. zack doesn't really have any way to stop eliots pressure other than blocking/holding, he also doesen't have decent mid/long range game which is eliots weakness so he pretty much has to get in eliots face to do anything which is what eliot player wants.

damage-wise eliot has the upper hand since he specializes in damaging juggles and gets easy access to maximum launch height with a simple 236h+p throw into his bnb juggles, throw in a hi-counter and dangerzones which he easily has access to with instant 3p refloating opponents across the stage then its clear eliot deals more damage than zack with easier access to that damage.

evasive characters are eliots kryptonite and zack doesn't have much going for him in that category, all his transitions in to sway stance are easily interruptable. overall eliot has the tools to deal with zack while having higher damage output without having put up with being easily evaded/crushed/outspaced which is eliots main weakness

so my final answer for eliot/zack 6-4 eliot
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I agree that Eliot does have a high damage output but he can easily interrupt Eliot's 6ppp strings (6ppp, 9pppp, 3pppp, 4ppppp, 6pppppp) with high crush moves and duck specifically, . Also like everyone else he can Sidestep P the last hits off eliot's combos.

His 7 frame grab is basically the same as Hitomi's except it guarantees zack a 6p and on CH you do not want to deal with that. There's also the mix-up factor that comes with the advantage, and it can punish just about any of Eliot's string enders. Basically as Eliot you're hoping to hit him with a 7p on CH to get the stun game going on and to trap him with 66P+K to get the advantage.

The parries are a really useful addition to this but you really have to pay attention and watch what's coming. Just in Sway and Duck there's a plethora of moves to fake you out and dodge your moves. So, I still think it's 5-5.
 
iHajinShinobi

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Looking over the Tier List from the OP. I thought I had Ayane vs Brad Wong listed as Good (6-4). That match-up is defintely 6-4 in Ayane's favor. If further explanation is needed, I'll be glad to elaborate on the match-up.
 
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