The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I doubt it's harder than Hitomi.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
You don't have to worry about dropping combos with Hitomi, that and she can actually play the spacing, whiff punish game.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
How exactly does Kokoro bypass the stun game? She has still has to guess.
Murakame
Active Member
I just wanted to let you know I understand what you are saying. But you seem to have misunderstood me. I didn't say Kokoro can't compete with those two, I meant to say she has a harder time applying pressure against those two than against characters in her speed tier. If Kasumi or Christie is in Kokoro's face all she can do is block or hope she hits that counter poke 6P or P, take a risk and hold or use a high crush or SS. Idk how much tracking Christie has but Kasumi doesn't give a shit about SS. She has tracking moves in the main strings a player should be using with her. As far as holding as a defensive option goes I can't speak for Christie, but with the amount of free canceling a Kasumi player has to do it's possible for you to whiff a hold right in front of my face and take a hi counter throw or succeed. Kokoro's options for defense aren't exactly Ideal in this situation regardless IMO.
As for what to do vs Kokoro's offense Nightantilli and Flamingmuffin provided alot of information. Kasumi doesn't have the SS that Christie does but she does have parries. And with how often Kokoro players seem to use complete strings its not out of the question to for her to use those in addition to SS to escape Kokoro's offense despite Kokoro having string grabs. Again I'm not saying Kokoro cannot compete with these characters. I am saying in a close quarters situation, Kasumi and Christie have the edge over Kokoro due to their speed and tools to stop her offense. Therefore the Kokoro player has to play a bit more cautiously vs these two. That's all.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I don't know about v1.03 since I don't know how the changes to Christie will work out, but in v1.02 I'd go as far as to say that the Kokoro/Christie matchup is around 7-3 in favor of Christie, if not worse. Christie has the speed, the range, the crushes, and is very evasive with her stance. Christie probably is the best counter-pick to Kokoro.
If anyone agrees, I'll gladly hear it ^_^
If anyone agrees, I'll gladly hear it ^_^
Murakame
Active Member
Lol give Kokoro some credit. 6-4 IMO. The reason JAK is such a threat is that it is a SS and a duck coupled into one. Kokoro can't do anything but watch as Christie sidesteps and goes into the JAK mixups because as you guys have stated already her tracking is limited to highs and throws. That one tracking mid she has is only going to be used in a spacing situation. I've heard 6P6P is a "step-killer" but I've yet to see it so who knows? Maybe that will help her against Christie lol. Regardless Kokoro has the damage output she needs to make her hits count so I feel like that is enough to make it 6-4.
Something-Unique
Active Member
I'll refrain from posting anything else temporarily because 1.04 didn't just fix the SE glitch like people were expecting but added some stealth nerfs/buffs.
For example Mila has fuqing returned. P+K into mount is back as well as her FT from what I can tell at the time of this posting so far.
Hayate got his 3K SDS removed just after preaching how many SDS's he had like a page ago. When all is said and done i will get back to u
Zeo
Well-Known Member
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Tokkosho
Well-Known Member
wait WTHJF I WAS TALKING ABOUT 66H+K WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE... DAT SHIT BETTER GROUND BOUNCE OR IMA BUST A FUCKIN TIT.....
and SDS is sitdown stun.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Nope no ground bounce from either. I'm not sure if I'm doing the right combos, but she has no GBs from either move.
EDIT: 46 F+K does gb after launch.
Tokkosho
Well-Known Member
Something-Unique
Active Member
In all seriousness though something needed to give. He had free stun with no ability to counter anything once you got caught into free CB or Max threshold into mix up. Completely shat on everyone elses stun game.
literally if u got hit by p+k or ssp or 3k within that setup or 3pp u were fuqed as the following was free.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
And the tradeoff was that he was crazy unsafe and just as sidesteppable as the next fighter. He didn't need any nerfs. The fact that they nerfed a character that was previously bottom tier and gave back tools to characters that were already better than him is infuriating. I can't even begin to describe my anger.
Something-Unique
Active Member
I can only imagine. It's a bit funny how messed up it is. He flew all the way to the top in one patch only to get dropped all the way back down to the bottom in one patch.
Though that really remains to be seen as he still does have all the buffs except 3K. It seems like they wanted the SDS into SDS thing removed as 3K was the factor that tied them together.
Free stun all the way completely through the entire stun game is a tradeoff that's leagues better than unsafety though. 3K is still guaranteed but now you have to risk "one more" non guaranteed hit within the stun where as you risked nothing before.
Not a single other character in the game had an entire free stun. The logic makes sense.
Technically he now is what Jann Lee used to be in concept when it came to stun where as before he surpassed him.
Edit: Well except Lei mid k counter.
Though that really remains to be seen as he still does have all the buffs except 3K. It seems like they wanted the SDS into SDS thing removed as 3K was the factor that tied them together.
Free stun all the way completely through the entire stun game is a tradeoff that's leagues better than unsafety though. 3K is still guaranteed but now you have to risk "one more" non guaranteed hit within the stun where as you risked nothing before.
Not a single other character in the game had an entire free stun. The logic makes sense.
Technically he now is what Jann Lee used to be in concept when it came to stun where as before he surpassed him.
Edit: Well except Lei mid k counter.
Something-Unique
Active Member
As good as SSP, 3K, 7P or P+K, 3K, 7P or 3PP, 3K, 7P?
The instant you were hit from any of the above everything was free from the very first initial hit.
The instant you were hit from any of the above everything was free from the very first initial hit.