The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Dr.Bhup]

Sorry guys -just had to; irony incoming:


A slightly different thing I love about the tier listing is the letters used to describe the different tiers. It's so arbitrary. It was the same thing in Tekken also. I've seen so many weird tier listings it's starting to lose it's meaning.

The puropse is to show how characters are in relation to each other, the letter itself doesn't mean anything! But it's hilarious how people just go overboard with the categories. Now I just saw an U tier. What the hell does that even mean? "Ultimate tier"??

We could of course just say category 1,2,3,4, 5 and so on... or A, B, C, D, E, F. We all are familiar with grades in school so we know A is the best and so on.. But nooooo... It always goes something like this:


U: these are the best characters, and they deserve their own spot at U tiers! This is how new letters are invented!

SSS: Triple S tier, that's right! When one S just doesn't cut it.

S+: Forget SS, there's no such thing as two S's. Don't be stupid!

S: Some great characters here. S tier, man!

A+++: Oooh yeeaah! Tier A plus plus PLUS!!! Just slightly under S. Got it?! Good!

A: Your average A tiers. You should always pick characters from A and above if you want to have a shot at competing!

A-: The third A category. All these A-characters are basically equal, but isn't it more fun with 3 different A groups?

B: Not as good as A. And A minus minus would just be retarded!

B/C: Nope, not B minus, nor C plus. These are exact at that sweet spot between B and C.

C: You just don't like to win, do you? Or you can win due to unfamiliarity. Bad characters go here. Usually the ones I can't win with!

Shit tier: All the characters no one eveolved and gives a rats ass about!


How about that? 11 beautiful and logic categories!

 

[StrikerSashi]

I had a fifteen minute discussion with someone about whether CRoa was S tier in Melty Blood. Turns out, he meant that CRoa wasn't S tier 'cause he was SS tier.

 

[David Gregg]

Now I just saw an U tier. What the hell does that even mean? "Ultimate tier"??

Ha ha yeah I think it stands for ultimate but who knows. XD As far as the proposed tier list goes...that would be very tricky trying to rank the characters into 11 tiers and have the majority agree with it. Hell we can't even agree when there's only 5 tiers. lol.

 

[Crext]

How about that? 11 beautiful and logic categories!

Makes me wonder what is the highest of AA and A+++.

The purpose is to show how characters are in relation to each other, the letter itself doesn't mean anything!

Aye, that is really the end goal. Some people are like "My character is higher tier than yours, nanananah!", and then makes it seems like it is always the better pick compared to some other characters, while truth is that vs certain characters they could have enormous weaknesses still. Just take the the Kokoro vs Christie example, where Kokoro is a very strong character in general, where it would be pretty much only against Christie she has a really hard time. Maybe that makes her S tier, or even higher ranked than Christie, but that does not help her at least in that match up. ^_^

Ha ha yeah I think it stands for ultimate but who knows. XD As far as the proposed tier list goes...that would be very tricky trying to rank the characters into 11 tiers and have the majority agree with it. Hell we can't even agree when there's only 5 tiers. lol.

Well, if everyone agreed with a tier list, that means we've reached perfection, which means that everything there is to know about a game has been figured out by every single players. This again means that the game is so simple that it beats the purpose of having a tier list to begin with, as it should have been perfectly simple to state from the getgo by everyone.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Kokoro's a weak character in general. She's very strong against people who don't sidestep. Let me just remind everyone that outside of wakeup kicks, she has 4 tracking moves. The second kick in 3KK, the second punch in 6PP, the second punch in 46PP, and H+K. Three of those four are high. All are slower than 17f.

EDIT: I just got another message a few days ago telling me that Kokoro was broken 'cause 66P+K~P+K 2P was overpowered. It's ridiculous.

 

[Crext]

Kokoro's a weak character in general. She's very strong against people who don't sidestep. Let me just remind everyone that outside of wakeup kicks, she has 4 tracking moves. The second kick in 3KK, the second punch in 6PP, the second punch in 46PP, and H+K. Three of those four are high. All are slower than 17f.

EDIT: I just got another message a few days ago telling me that Kokoro was broken 'cause 66P+K~P+K 2P was overpowered. It's ridiculous.

Well, when you sidestep you are completely exposed, and most people's sidestep moves are quite slow and will be beaten out by any 17 frames. What is special about Christie's sidestep is that she enters crouching state which makes most of Kokoro's tracking move miss. Also it is not that hard to hit sidestepping targets with regular moves if you manage to time them correctly. Sidestepping does not automatically beat linear moves unless you throw them out in a frenzy. If I had a penny for every time I hit Christies with the second punch in 4pp (First 4p tracks, the second p don't) with Hitomi I'd be rich by now.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Are you assuming that the one doing the sidestep does so randomly and the person striking does so carefully? That's no way to evaluate things. Obviously crouching sidesteps are stronger than regular ones, but that doesn't make sidesteps any weaker as an option to escape from Kokoro. Also, that 17f tracking high is her H+K, which is -9 on block. It's not an option that's gonna be thrown out as part of pressure and it's impossible to clip sidesteps on reaction with it. As long as you watch for her tracking strings and time your sidesteps well, you can get away with a lot.

 

[David Gregg]

But then the argument can be made that a knowledgeable Kokoro player will be a good predictor of when the opponent will likely sidestep and can then delay/punish them for it. Kokoro may not be as threatening as she was in 5 but she is by no means a weak character in 5U.

 

[StrikerSashi]

That's a heavy burden. During a blockstring, the one blocking has many choices of when to sidestep. As the one doing the blockstring, you'd have to predict which one the enemy is going to chose. Basically, if they both choose the same spot, the attacker wins. If they choose different spots, the blocker wins. Waaaaay in the blocker's favor. Plus, you can sidestep AFTER a strike is initiated. You can't stop a strike after it already started (unless you're a VF character/Mila/etc).

 

[Brute]

Oh no, a tracking move is -9 on block? This is intolerable!

 

[Crext]

You have the option to delay after a tracking move, which most times guarantees follow up or can be canceled into a tracking throw if you expect a follow up SS. Right there you have a > 50% odds for success. Then you have the fact that all SS moves have very high frame rate, so if you attack as you see the SS you will get the hit in most of the time.

Also moving forward has the same tracking effect, so if you step forward as you see a SS you will get the hit in if you time it right.
Important underline is to understand that SS does not automatically beat out linear moves, the one doing the SS must have very good timing.

Also, just to make it even more in your favor almost all SS moves will be unsafe on block, and guarantees a throw punish. There are only a few characters that have SS throws.

Also most character only has 2 options on SS, of which both is none-lows and unsafe. This makes blocking very easy. And holding would be a possibility as it could be easy to spot and react to because of their high frame rate (but tbh, throw punish is often more ideal).

There is so many ways to get around this issue. And yes, some characters like Bayman or Christie are more difficult to deal with as they got crouching state, SS throws and low attacks and the whole package, but for most other characters in general the options are so poor that it really shouldn't be an issue for a skilled Kokoro player. If you tunnel vision on SS you will get smacked in so many different ways that only the imagination sets the limit.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Option to delay after tracking move? Kokoro only has one string where the tracking move isn't at the end of the string. It's a terrible worst place to sidestep and everyone knows it. Both in locals and online, I've never had someone sidestep it, 'cause the followup is arguably her best stun. Or you can just free cancel and throw, which is even more devastating. The animation has a distinct twitch when she does the last punch in the string, so it's actually sidesteppable on reaction, though, especially if you use the sidestep macro instead of 22/88. Like I said before, you're picking bad spots to sidestep and going, "Look, see! Sidesteps are easily beat!"

Also, sidesteps don't always beat linear moves, but you're going with the assumption that the sidestepping one is just doing it randomly without thinking and the person striking is doing it with absolute focus. I never said that random sidesteps beat Kokoro. Good sidesteps beat Kokoro.

Plus, it's precisely because you can't tunnel vision on sidesteps that they're so strong.

You shouldn't assume that someone is always going to do a sidestep followup from a sidestep, either. If the person doing the pressure is free canceling, the person escaping the pressure can do it too!

 

[iHajinShinobi]

This last page is so funny, lol.

 

[Blackburry]

I have skimmed through a few posts and am a little disgusted in people debating whether or not Kokoro is a good or bad character. She is pretty damn terrible. I mean she got hit in DOA5 in 1.03a, but myself and the other top Kokoro players still stuck it out with her, but in 5U she got hit even more to the point where she is too inconsistent of a character.

She is so bad that Artemis and myself have taken on new mains/secondaries just to get by, and E-mann just dropped her completely. She seriously needs some help in this game.

 

[Blazeincarnated]

This thread still up? *ignores*

 

[Brute]

damn it, Hajin, why'd you have to resurrect this damn thread?

 

[Blackburry]

Lmao I didn't even notice those posts were a month old.

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

SOO, should some knowledgeable people start a new tier debate soon for 5U? Match-up style? Don't get mad now, just asking...

 

[Brute]

SOO, should some knowledgeable people start a new tier debate soon for 5U? Match-up style? Don't get mad now, just asking...

sounds like an imminent disaster

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

I have skimmed through a few posts and am a little disgusted in people debating whether or not Kokoro is a good or bad character. She is pretty damn terrible. I mean she got hit in DOA5 in 1.03a, but myself and the other top Kokoro players still stuck it out with her, but in 5U she got hit even more to the point where she is too inconsistent of a character.

She is so bad that Artemis and myself have taken on new mains/secondaries just to get by, and E-mann just dropped her completely. She seriously needs some help in this game.

Yet, she's pretty much still better off than Ein

Ein is just awful since his 2 best tools being nerfed to the ground.