Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
Leon went from shit tier to B tier. That's nice.
What's the deal with Phase 4? I'm pretty surprised she's C tier.
What's the deal with Phase 4? I'm pretty surprised she's C tier.
DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crext
- Start date
Stupid question ...
I'm not sure if I'm reading the spreadsheet the right way. It currently says that Phase's MU with Akira is 4. Is that 4 in her disadvantage or 6 in her favor?
I'm not sure if I'm reading the spreadsheet the right way. It currently says that Phase's MU with Akira is 4. Is that 4 in her disadvantage or 6 in her favor?
Last edited:
If it is red, that's her disadvantage. If you're looking at phase 4's row, that's her advantage.
When I read the spreadsheet horizontally (like I assume one is supposed to), it would be 4 disadvantage, which is alright.
If so, I'd really like to know why she is supposed to have 6 advantage in the Bass and even the Gen Fu MU.
When I look at the row named PHA (meaning I read it vertically), it would be 6 advantage for her, which is not correct imo. It would also mean she has 6 advantage in the Christie MU.
If so, I'd really like to know why she is supposed to have 6 advantage in the Bass and even the Gen Fu MU.
When I look at the row named PHA (meaning I read it vertically), it would be 6 advantage for her, which is not correct imo. It would also mean she has 6 advantage in the Christie MU.
How on earth is kasumi an A? she seems average at best
B and C are average since that's where the majority of the cast is.
I know. Kasumi is still a very good character, but one of the reasons of why she is A tier is probably because of her mix up game. In my opinion, Kasumi is A tier because:
She has very fast pokes.
She can either play entirely aggressive, or she can play slightly passive, and can be a problem if she is very defensive and can hold correctly. Her evasive strategies are very good, and her Hoshinpo ducks under highs and and she can K afterwards to evade a low.
This is my opinion though.
Also, Kasumi has Main Character syndrome. XD
She has very fast pokes.
- Neutral P: i9 High P
- 6P: i12 Mid P
- 2P: i12 Low P
- 4P: i12 Mid P
- 8K: i12 High K
- 7K: i12 Mid K (isn't really a poke, but it is a great disengage)
- 3P: i13 Mid P
- Neutral K: i11 High K
She can either play entirely aggressive, or she can play slightly passive, and can be a problem if she is very defensive and can hold correctly. Her evasive strategies are very good, and her Hoshinpo ducks under highs and and she can K afterwards to evade a low.
This is my opinion though.
Also, Kasumi has Main Character syndrome. XD
So like, there's this thing where not everyone who gave matchup information was in line with each other. Steady provided Jacky's match-ups and simply disagreed with your 5-5 matchup.
Horizontally is how you should ready it: Phase 4 vs AKI is 4-6.
Phase's jab/mid/low attack speeds are a big reason why she has an advantage on Bass as she can easily set the pace. She shouldn't be on the defense in that matchup and has enough tools to play keep out given the proper reads.
Well, then Crazy needs to play my Akira and not garbage Akiras because that match up is even. If he just steam rolls garbage Akiras then that's his misconception. Jackie has no special evasion/tools to get an advantage on Akira. Nor does Akira have any strengths on Jackie. They're even in speed, strikes, and throws.
I'm looking at this list and seeing quite a few things I agree with. Only one S tier character, which everyone knew was Christie -- All the A tier characters are where they belong... Alpha is C tier but is not the worst character.
The matchup I tend to fuck up with when I'm using Alpha is definitely Tina. She's not as fast as Alpha, but she's fast enough to cope. She has tons of ways to get out of all of Alpha's offensive holds (RUSH, BREAK), BURST, and and she has a lot of ways to manipulate Alpha's unique tech-up.
Hitomi being at a disadvantage to Tina still kind of confuses me. Faster, still has damaging throws, more tools, some of the same moves... Nah, it's at least a 5-5.
The matchup I tend to fuck up with when I'm using Alpha is definitely Tina. She's not as fast as Alpha, but she's fast enough to cope. She has tons of ways to get out of all of Alpha's offensive holds (RUSH, BREAK), BURST, and and she has a lot of ways to manipulate Alpha's unique tech-up.
Hitomi being at a disadvantage to Tina still kind of confuses me. Faster, still has damaging throws, more tools, some of the same moves... Nah, it's at least a 5-5.
Ok, thanks.
Sure, her speed is an advantage in that MU, though I'd say it get's neutralized bye the fact that Bass can literally punish everything on block with his 6T. I can only imagine two of her mini-strings which a Bass player should look out for, which are PP6K and PP2K. There is no other tool of which a Bass player should be afraid of, and I'd say that playing keep out on a Bass MU is not a good idea for her because she would straight lose that speed advantage and give Bass more room to play out his offensive holds and good mid range crushes.
Sure, Bass can be interrupted easily by her 2P or PK, but none of those moves grant her the opportunity to start offensive if the Bass player knows how to use just-in-time holds (or how that's called) and generic slow-escaping.
It's still weird that she has the Gen Fu and the Jann Lee MU in her favor.
Steady G
Well-Known Member
If anyone have any concerns about the MUs regarding the Bryants, feel free to PM me. I will try to get back to you as soon as possible. Stay cool guys! 
Just a side note, it is just a list. Opinions would be thrown out left and right about a specific character. People are going to agree or disagree about things and that is okay. It is our job as a community to figure these types of things out. Carry on with the discussion.
Just a side note, it is just a list. Opinions would be thrown out left and right about a specific character. People are going to agree or disagree about things and that is okay. It is our job as a community to figure these types of things out. Carry on with the discussion.
If anyone have any concerns about the MUs regarding the Bryants, feel free to PM me. I will try to get back to you as soon as possible. Stay cool guys!
Just a side note, it is just a list. Opinions would be thrown out left and right about a specific character. People are going to agree or disagree about things and that is okay. It is our job as a community to figure these types of things out. Carry on with the discussion.
I think they'd rather discuss it in this thread than privately messaging as it provides the insight and information to everyone.
Looking at the list and the spread sheet, I mostly agree.
Brad Wong does have a lot of difficulty with the cast, mainly because he lacks priority in his moves. Not to mention, he's slow and his pokes are bad. Fighting with Brad takes a lot of patience and frustration, but he excels in mind games and mix ups.
Eliot is another character that has difficulty with the cast. Everything about Eliot is below average and he doesn't really excel at anything. Very predictable character and most of his strikes can be held, because majority of them are mid. Then again, my Eliot style of play is normally trying to stay on the offensive and using throws and parries whenever I can. But, majority of the cast will blow Eliot out of the water. I am curious to know how Eliot has a more advantageous match up against the Bryants, because they gave me the most trouble when I did main him.
Ayane is one of the trickiest ninjas to use, but that's what I love about her. Majority of Ayane's moves are safe, but where she really shines is in her spacing. She can literally control the space around her and her evasiveness allows her to get in and get out with ease. So long as an Ayane player can control the space and can use her mix up effectively, Ayane definitely belongs in A tier.
Brad Wong does have a lot of difficulty with the cast, mainly because he lacks priority in his moves. Not to mention, he's slow and his pokes are bad. Fighting with Brad takes a lot of patience and frustration, but he excels in mind games and mix ups. Eliot is another character that has difficulty with the cast. Everything about Eliot is below average and he doesn't really excel at anything. Very predictable character and most of his strikes can be held, because majority of them are mid. Then again, my Eliot style of play is normally trying to stay on the offensive and using throws and parries whenever I can. But, majority of the cast will blow Eliot out of the water. I am curious to know how Eliot has a more advantageous match up against the Bryants, because they gave me the most trouble when I did main him.Ayane is one of the trickiest ninjas to use, but that's what I love about her. Majority of Ayane's moves are safe, but where she really shines is in her spacing. She can literally control the space around her and her evasiveness allows her to get in and get out with ease. So long as an Ayane player can control the space and can use her mix up effectively, Ayane definitely belongs in A tier.
Got my exp. back in the lab so I'mma add my opinions on Zack.
I feel like Zack is where he belongs at this point. He is a balanced character, and people have figured out the MU.
In almost every MU, he is equal with his opponents, but can be very predictable at times (Especially with his lows). He is very hard to sidestep, as almost every one of his strings have a tracking variation, or they auto-track onto the opponent if they try to counter with an SS attack. His wall pressure is amazing, and his combos are great, but one of his greatest fall-backs are his hold damage. Obviously, this was a right decision to make, as he is solely a close-range to mid-range rushdown mix-up character, and does not necessarily need damaging holds. In my eyes, his holds are aimed to create a neutral status, and put some distance between the two characters, at his mid range. Another way Zack can lose a match up, is against defensive characters. Of course the mix-up between his 6T and the variations from the stances that originate from it, can break somebody's defense, but if Zack's opponent is spacious and patient (e.g. Leifang), he will have a very hard time in a match.
Despite his speed, I feel like Zack often loses to grapplers, as they can shut him down quite easily. It is quite easy to OH Zack, as he is mainly attack-based, and close-ranged, where grapplers excel in. Tbh, grapplers like Bayman, and Leon eat Zack for lunch. Zack does have very good high crushes though, that can beat these throws because they bring him airborne (3P+K, 66K), but they do have very slow start-ups, and you will likely be grabbed by the time the active frames actually kick in, as mostly he is standing before he hits, and then goes airborne. His duck and sway stances can also be easily OH'd. This text minus the OH part applies to Ayane and Helena.
I'm going to be honest with you, spacing with Zack is not advised, as he is not the best at it. But Zack has a lot of ways to get back in your face from mid/far range, which makes him that much better. Especially with moves like 236P8, 236H, 33KP, 9PP, P+K, 66P+K (EASILY HOLDABLE) and 66H+K, they are all fairly safe, and can get Zack back in his safe zone again. His close range poke is very good too.
Zack's throw game is good too, as they also put him at mid-range, and do a ton of damage on HiC. I think Zack is very good at throwing when he baits a hold, which is probably his strongest point, baiting holds and then HiC throwing.
His combo damage is very high, and can deal 50% or more off of a simple CB setup. Zack's stun game makes this happen. Zack's thresholds are so damn long, and he always has you in a 50-50 guessing situation everytime you get stunned. Saying this, Zack can still get you to the end of threshold really quickly, and probably get the sneaky CB in there, or he could just wait, and bait a hold. He also cannot be slow escaped. Like literally, CANNOT be slow escaped. Every single one of his combos will still work on fastest SE, which means, again, you will have to try and hold his moves.
I looked into this just the other day, but Zack's FT setups and oki-game is probably one if the best in 5U. But if he does miss that one 2K or that one hit that will FT, just be sure that he will get punished as he is -14 always besides stun. Zack has a ton of unholdable setups, that will lead into his mix-up game again. Once Zack is in his momentum, there is not really a easy way out, unless you correctly predict his moves, or catch an unsafe attack, or if you're Ayane, lol.
I feel like Zack is where he belongs at this point. He is a balanced character, and people have figured out the MU.
In almost every MU, he is equal with his opponents, but can be very predictable at times (Especially with his lows). He is very hard to sidestep, as almost every one of his strings have a tracking variation, or they auto-track onto the opponent if they try to counter with an SS attack. His wall pressure is amazing, and his combos are great, but one of his greatest fall-backs are his hold damage. Obviously, this was a right decision to make, as he is solely a close-range to mid-range rushdown mix-up character, and does not necessarily need damaging holds. In my eyes, his holds are aimed to create a neutral status, and put some distance between the two characters, at his mid range. Another way Zack can lose a match up, is against defensive characters. Of course the mix-up between his 6T and the variations from the stances that originate from it, can break somebody's defense, but if Zack's opponent is spacious and patient (e.g. Leifang), he will have a very hard time in a match.
Despite his speed, I feel like Zack often loses to grapplers, as they can shut him down quite easily. It is quite easy to OH Zack, as he is mainly attack-based, and close-ranged, where grapplers excel in. Tbh, grapplers like Bayman, and Leon eat Zack for lunch. Zack does have very good high crushes though, that can beat these throws because they bring him airborne (3P+K, 66K), but they do have very slow start-ups, and you will likely be grabbed by the time the active frames actually kick in, as mostly he is standing before he hits, and then goes airborne. His duck and sway stances can also be easily OH'd. This text minus the OH part applies to Ayane and Helena.
I'm going to be honest with you, spacing with Zack is not advised, as he is not the best at it. But Zack has a lot of ways to get back in your face from mid/far range, which makes him that much better. Especially with moves like 236P8, 236H, 33KP, 9PP, P+K, 66P+K (EASILY HOLDABLE) and 66H+K, they are all fairly safe, and can get Zack back in his safe zone again. His close range poke is very good too.
Zack's throw game is good too, as they also put him at mid-range, and do a ton of damage on HiC. I think Zack is very good at throwing when he baits a hold, which is probably his strongest point, baiting holds and then HiC throwing.
His combo damage is very high, and can deal 50% or more off of a simple CB setup. Zack's stun game makes this happen. Zack's thresholds are so damn long, and he always has you in a 50-50 guessing situation everytime you get stunned. Saying this, Zack can still get you to the end of threshold really quickly, and probably get the sneaky CB in there, or he could just wait, and bait a hold. He also cannot be slow escaped. Like literally, CANNOT be slow escaped. Every single one of his combos will still work on fastest SE, which means, again, you will have to try and hold his moves.
I looked into this just the other day, but Zack's FT setups and oki-game is probably one if the best in 5U. But if he does miss that one 2K or that one hit that will FT, just be sure that he will get punished as he is -14 always besides stun. Zack has a ton of unholdable setups, that will lead into his mix-up game again. Once Zack is in his momentum, there is not really a easy way out, unless you correctly predict his moves, or catch an unsafe attack, or if you're Ayane, lol.
Last edited:
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Kasumi vs Gen Fu 5-5
Safety
Both characters are unsafe but Kasumi is a bit more unsafe than Gen Fu. She is subject to be thrown more than he is but not by much.
Damage
Overall Gen Fu is step above Kasumi with damage. Kasumi has to take more risks in the stun game to net big damage, her string manipulation makes this easy for her but they are still risks. Gen Fu can do a significant amount of damage with half of the hits it takes her to get a great deal of damage.
When it comes to guaranteed damage she is on par with him but her mix up in getting to it greatly exceeds his. Her sit-down stuns gives her about the same amount of damage as his, give or take a few numbers.
Examples: Gen Fu CH: 6PPP>33P~dash>16P (close hit) 102 points of damage.
Gen Fu CH: 3PP>33P>33P~dash>16P (close hit) 108 points of damage.
Kasumi CH: 4P>6PP>66K~K>P6P6KK 102 points of damage.
Kasumi CH: 66P>6PP>66K~K>P6P6KK 110 points of damage.
Spacing
Both characters are not great for this, and have to rely on a up close fight to win. However, the entire fight will not be up close and some spacing will be involved. When that happens Kasumi is the better character for this, Gen Fu only has 2 options from range to help him get in or control the little space he covers that being 66P or 214(P). Outside of that Gen Fu has to take a risk and string his way in if he wants to apply a mix up to his spacing, and that opens him up to be whiffed punished for doing that.
Kasumi has: 66P, 66K, 4P, 4H+K, H+K, 66H+K, and 3H+P(along with the string, SDS attack, and throws coming from it). These tools help her get in and play a keep out game. Since Gen Fu is limited in his options to get in, he will be at her mercy the moment the fight has range added to it. He is forced to play a stationary game and attempt to parry (preferably) or hold her spacing options. Which is not great to rely on for him since throws are apart of her spacing.
Throws
Both characters have strong throws but Kasumi is slightly step above him with throwing. Her low throws is the tipping factor here. Gen Fu's low throws do not do a lot of damage, and his 2T is weak on NT and HCT, and a 50/50 is forced. Kasumi's low throws both play off the environment, 2T ground and wall damage, 1T various juggles that go off into the environment picking up extra damage.
Both of their standing throws are powerful
Gen Fu
214T: 10i +10 reset throw
4T 7i :53-79 points of damage
6TT 7i: 64 points of damage
236T 12i: throw giving him 74-112 points of damage in this match up or a catch reset giving him +13
2T 5i: 45-66 points of damage
1T: 55-82 points of damage
Kasumi
46T 7i: +10 reset throw
66TT 7i: guaranteed 70 points of damage in this match up or +10 to a BT Gen Fu.
236T 12i: 70-105 points of damage
2T 5i: 50-75 points of damage (without environment)
1T 7i: 61-92 points of damage (without environment)
Offense
Kasumi and Gen Fu are both quick characters that need to be played up close but Kasumi is quicker on the draw than Gen Fu. So is he forced to play defensively more than he normally would in this match up when he is close to Kasumi. His offense will come from defensive reads more than offensive pressure with attacks which is a good and bad thing for him.
Defense
Gen Fu is the better defensive character when defense needs to played in this match up. His parries open up the stun game for him and 3P poses a small problem for him. The reason 3P is a small problem it is because multiple buttons need to be hit so that he can get the lift stun. Since Kasumi thrives off singular pokes to get counter hits landing 3P how Gen Fu wants will be an issue. So this will cause him to rely on his parries a bit more to stop her offense, and with her throws being on par with his that will be a problem also for him.
Kasumi is also equipped with parries as well and the potency of her parries varies on what she parries. In this match up, she either picks up frame advantage on Gen Fu BT or she has enough advantage to 5i throw him.
So when the both characters are up close it becomes a staring match.
Strings
Side stepping hurts Gen Fu a lot in this match up. 1P being the only safe tracking option he has and that is only on hit. He does have it in a string as well so that helps some. Most of his tracking options are coming at the end of a string, 3KPP ends in high and gives him +7 but a universal way to deal with the GB mix up of; is he going throw me or attack me?! Is forcing him to finish the string doing 3KP6P because ducking the high option leaves him open for throw punishment. Ducking down after 3KP, you will eat 6P on normal hit which is 37 points of damage and is only a knock down and you can force the wake up game 50/50 on him. Of course watching for walls and things to be knocked into is important.
Kasumi deals with his strings by either side stepping him (universal tool) or utilizing 44P (character specific tool) which cleanly free steps her out of his stings and it starts her offense with a stun at +33 even if it is blocked Kasumi can go into all of her strings as if she did PP. Gen Fu can not reciprocate this line of defense against Kausmi because she tracks with all of her strings and the ones that do not track which are only 2 can be delayed enough to stop his side step attempts.
I would factor in holds but I personally do not like that because it is a universal tool and whether a character has weak or strong holds they serve their purpose well for those characters. Ex. Christie and Kasumi are relatively weak when it comes to holding but that does not hinder them from being top or a high tier character.
If I left out anything that a Gen Fu players knows about this match up that I left out or don't know, post up and lets talk.
Safety
Both characters are unsafe but Kasumi is a bit more unsafe than Gen Fu. She is subject to be thrown more than he is but not by much.
Damage
Overall Gen Fu is step above Kasumi with damage. Kasumi has to take more risks in the stun game to net big damage, her string manipulation makes this easy for her but they are still risks. Gen Fu can do a significant amount of damage with half of the hits it takes her to get a great deal of damage.
When it comes to guaranteed damage she is on par with him but her mix up in getting to it greatly exceeds his. Her sit-down stuns gives her about the same amount of damage as his, give or take a few numbers.
Examples: Gen Fu CH: 6PPP>33P~dash>16P (close hit) 102 points of damage.
Gen Fu CH: 3PP>33P>33P~dash>16P (close hit) 108 points of damage.
Kasumi CH: 4P>6PP>66K~K>P6P6KK 102 points of damage.
Kasumi CH: 66P>6PP>66K~K>P6P6KK 110 points of damage.
Spacing
Both characters are not great for this, and have to rely on a up close fight to win. However, the entire fight will not be up close and some spacing will be involved. When that happens Kasumi is the better character for this, Gen Fu only has 2 options from range to help him get in or control the little space he covers that being 66P or 214(P). Outside of that Gen Fu has to take a risk and string his way in if he wants to apply a mix up to his spacing, and that opens him up to be whiffed punished for doing that.
Kasumi has: 66P, 66K, 4P, 4H+K, H+K, 66H+K, and 3H+P(along with the string, SDS attack, and throws coming from it). These tools help her get in and play a keep out game. Since Gen Fu is limited in his options to get in, he will be at her mercy the moment the fight has range added to it. He is forced to play a stationary game and attempt to parry (preferably) or hold her spacing options. Which is not great to rely on for him since throws are apart of her spacing.
Throws
Both characters have strong throws but Kasumi is slightly step above him with throwing. Her low throws is the tipping factor here. Gen Fu's low throws do not do a lot of damage, and his 2T is weak on NT and HCT, and a 50/50 is forced. Kasumi's low throws both play off the environment, 2T ground and wall damage, 1T various juggles that go off into the environment picking up extra damage.
Both of their standing throws are powerful
Gen Fu
214T: 10i +10 reset throw
4T 7i :53-79 points of damage
6TT 7i: 64 points of damage
236T 12i: throw giving him 74-112 points of damage in this match up or a catch reset giving him +13
2T 5i: 45-66 points of damage
1T: 55-82 points of damage
Kasumi
46T 7i: +10 reset throw
66TT 7i: guaranteed 70 points of damage in this match up or +10 to a BT Gen Fu.
236T 12i: 70-105 points of damage
2T 5i: 50-75 points of damage (without environment)
1T 7i: 61-92 points of damage (without environment)
Offense
Kasumi and Gen Fu are both quick characters that need to be played up close but Kasumi is quicker on the draw than Gen Fu. So is he forced to play defensively more than he normally would in this match up when he is close to Kasumi. His offense will come from defensive reads more than offensive pressure with attacks which is a good and bad thing for him.
Defense
Gen Fu is the better defensive character when defense needs to played in this match up. His parries open up the stun game for him and 3P poses a small problem for him. The reason 3P is a small problem it is because multiple buttons need to be hit so that he can get the lift stun. Since Kasumi thrives off singular pokes to get counter hits landing 3P how Gen Fu wants will be an issue. So this will cause him to rely on his parries a bit more to stop her offense, and with her throws being on par with his that will be a problem also for him.
Kasumi is also equipped with parries as well and the potency of her parries varies on what she parries. In this match up, she either picks up frame advantage on Gen Fu BT or she has enough advantage to 5i throw him.
So when the both characters are up close it becomes a staring match.
Strings
Side stepping hurts Gen Fu a lot in this match up. 1P being the only safe tracking option he has and that is only on hit. He does have it in a string as well so that helps some. Most of his tracking options are coming at the end of a string, 3KPP ends in high and gives him +7 but a universal way to deal with the GB mix up of; is he going throw me or attack me?! Is forcing him to finish the string doing 3KP6P because ducking the high option leaves him open for throw punishment. Ducking down after 3KP, you will eat 6P on normal hit which is 37 points of damage and is only a knock down and you can force the wake up game 50/50 on him. Of course watching for walls and things to be knocked into is important.
Kasumi deals with his strings by either side stepping him (universal tool) or utilizing 44P (character specific tool) which cleanly free steps her out of his stings and it starts her offense with a stun at +33 even if it is blocked Kasumi can go into all of her strings as if she did PP. Gen Fu can not reciprocate this line of defense against Kausmi because she tracks with all of her strings and the ones that do not track which are only 2 can be delayed enough to stop his side step attempts.
I would factor in holds but I personally do not like that because it is a universal tool and whether a character has weak or strong holds they serve their purpose well for those characters. Ex. Christie and Kasumi are relatively weak when it comes to holding but that does not hinder them from being top or a high tier character.
If I left out anything that a Gen Fu players knows about this match up that I left out or don't know, post up and lets talk.
Crazy steady strikes again!
Steady G
Well-Known Member
Sly Bass comment:
"You've got me scratching my head over your 3-7 MU in favor of Jackie when it comes to Akira. Why so lop sided? Have you based it on your personal experience against Akira as Jackie or is it based off of game mechanics. IMO, neither character has a glaring strength against the other. Speed, strikes, throws, parries and low jabs are equally effective. Both are close range characters. If anything, Akira has better side step options, but it isn't strong enough to shift the scale."
I have based all of my MUs on 4 categories that I could think of at the time which were speed, damage/counters, yomi which is mix up, and gurantees. These are the three I came up with at the time. Maybe I missed a few categories but I'm not like a DOA expert and I can't think of every situation. Maybe I should've but when I sent my list, I still wanted to look over it to see maybe some characters are put in the wrong place. Some things could change so we can talk about it lol.
Btw NONE of my decisions were based on personal experiences against any character.
Sov.
Yomi
In my opinion, I believe that Jacky can mix up better with Akira. Akira doesn't necessarily have to rely on grabs but that is one of his strengths. Which is good but he doesn't get that much damage off of them. The only damaging grab he has is his 64T. Creating a stun with Akira going into his grab is what will happen most of the time. Akira is hard hitting heavy, meaning he stuns but he doesn't have enough tools to keep a stun so he would have to launch fairly quickly in a match. Jacky, can easily get to the CB threshold faster and trickier which gives him more options to work from by using the variety of attacks he has in his arsenal. I am just saying that as far as poking your opponent tricking them during a match, Jacky has a better chance of doing that. I play a little Akira and its easy to get a stun off but I have trouble maintaining the stun because of how slow some of his strings are. I'm not an Akira expert nor a Jacky expert but comparing the two in the yomi category, I like Jacky's options more than Akira's.
Damage/Counters
Akira's parries can give off a lot of damage when used correctly. He is also deadly when using his frame knee in combos or even his 466P+K on counter hit. He can get off a lot of damage in a match but I feel like his most damaging options are one hitters and that are on counter hit. Jacky has his wall grab that can get a lot of free damage off of that his 4H+K that resets a combo on a launched opponent, and his flash sword kick which is similar to Akira knee whereas if you can pull it off you get damage. Akira can use 214P on a launched opponent to get more damage but it doesn't give him that much after it has been used. Akira has to bait on when to use his most damaging move like SSP+K or 466P+K. Sly mentioned that Akira's SS attacks is better than Jacky's which I agree but the only attack worth mentioning in my opinion is his SSP+K. It is evasive to where he can dance around his opponent and get a counter hit to get free damage. Again, he has to use that move cautiously in order to pull it off in a match.
Speed
Jacky and Akira have the same speed so that didn't affect my decision as much.
Guarantees
Akira 214P and 6P+K
Jacky 2P+K and 4H+K
As far as these moves goes, on hit the characters can get a fairly amount of damage from them. I am going to highlight Jacky's 4H+K and Akira's 6P+K. I highlighted those two in particular because both Jacky and Akira can get fairly enough damage from their other move. So with Jacky's 4H+K, he can get damage from that move and he doesn't have to be fairly close to his opponent. He can space them out and throw out that move constantly too get damage. With Akira's 6P+K, it is a guard break that gives him guarantee damage but it is more riskier to use in a match. Using that punch would mean they have to be close to your opponent and the opponent would have to be blocking. Maybe you can set it up during a match but it's unlikely to get hit by that constantly.
Maybe Jacky and Akira aren't that different from one another but I don't believe that they are a 5-5 with each other. Feel free to correct me if I said anything wrong or stupid lol. I am so hungry.
"You've got me scratching my head over your 3-7 MU in favor of Jackie when it comes to Akira. Why so lop sided? Have you based it on your personal experience against Akira as Jackie or is it based off of game mechanics. IMO, neither character has a glaring strength against the other. Speed, strikes, throws, parries and low jabs are equally effective. Both are close range characters. If anything, Akira has better side step options, but it isn't strong enough to shift the scale."
I have based all of my MUs on 4 categories that I could think of at the time which were speed, damage/counters, yomi which is mix up, and gurantees. These are the three I came up with at the time. Maybe I missed a few categories but I'm not like a DOA expert and I can't think of every situation. Maybe I should've but when I sent my list, I still wanted to look over it to see maybe some characters are put in the wrong place. Some things could change so we can talk about it lol.
Btw NONE of my decisions were based on personal experiences against any character.
So
v. Yomi
In my opinion, I believe that Jacky can mix up better with Akira. Akira doesn't necessarily have to rely on grabs but that is one of his strengths. Which is good but he doesn't get that much damage off of them. The only damaging grab he has is his 64T. Creating a stun with Akira going into his grab is what will happen most of the time. Akira is hard hitting heavy, meaning he stuns but he doesn't have enough tools to keep a stun so he would have to launch fairly quickly in a match. Jacky, can easily get to the CB threshold faster and trickier which gives him more options to work from by using the variety of attacks he has in his arsenal. I am just saying that as far as poking your opponent tricking them during a match, Jacky has a better chance of doing that. I play a little Akira and its easy to get a stun off but I have trouble maintaining the stun because of how slow some of his strings are. I'm not an Akira expert nor a Jacky expert but comparing the two in the yomi category, I like Jacky's options more than Akira's.
Damage/Counters
Akira's parries can give off a lot of damage when used correctly. He is also deadly when using his frame knee in combos or even his 466P+K on counter hit. He can get off a lot of damage in a match but I feel like his most damaging options are one hitters and that are on counter hit. Jacky has his wall grab that can get a lot of free damage off of that his 4H+K that resets a combo on a launched opponent, and his flash sword kick which is similar to Akira knee whereas if you can pull it off you get damage. Akira can use 214P on a launched opponent to get more damage but it doesn't give him that much after it has been used. Akira has to bait on when to use his most damaging move like SSP+K or 466P+K. Sly mentioned that Akira's SS attacks is better than Jacky's which I agree but the only attack worth mentioning in my opinion is his SSP+K. It is evasive to where he can dance around his opponent and get a counter hit to get free damage. Again, he has to use that move cautiously in order to pull it off in a match.
Speed
Jacky and Akira have the same speed so that didn't affect my decision as much.
Guarantees
Akira 214P and 6P+K
Jacky 2P+K and 4H+K
As far as these moves goes, on hit the characters can get a fairly amount of damage from them. I am going to highlight Jacky's 4H+K and Akira's 6P+K. I highlighted those two in particular because both Jacky and Akira can get fairly enough damage from their other move. So with Jacky's 4H+K, he can get damage from that move and he doesn't have to be fairly close to his opponent. He can space them out and throw out that move constantly too get damage. With Akira's 6P+K, it is a guard break that gives him guarantee damage but it is more riskier to use in a match. Using that punch would mean they have to be close to your opponent and the opponent would have to be blocking. Maybe you can set it up during a match but it's unlikely to get hit by that constantly.
Maybe Jacky and Akira aren't that different from one another but I don't believe that they are a 5-5 with each other. Feel free to correct me if I said anything wrong or stupid lol. I am so hungry.