THE STRONGEST THREAD IN THE WORLD (The LEON Thread)

[Argentus]

Its not spamming when its very difficult to find a situation that makes it guaranteed ... you NEED that damage ..

Also, if you don't play to win then you're not playing. >__>

Well thats just not true.

A, don't need that damage, you can easily gain it elsewhere with Leon.

B, if you aren't playing to win, then you are just playing a/the game. If you are just playing tobwin, then you arent reqlly playing (around, to clarify).

Standing Desert Falcon is pretty easy to pull off, especially because people are so counter-reliant. You can do so much damage for just scaring them. I love it. It's one of the most satisfying reasons for playing Leon!

Exactly. Possibly more than anyone else, mindgames are a huge factor for leon due to sheer scare tactics.

I get the neck lift off people trying to counter all the time. Have you ever seen how much damage that does on a high counter over water? It's almost the same as a high counter desert falcon...and sinking them for that much health is reaaaallly satisfying lol.


Plus, I prefer air falcon because I can change where I'm throwing them then.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Well thats just not true.

A, don't need that damage, you can easily gain it elsewhere with Leon.

B, if you aren't playing to win, then you are just playing a/the game. If you are just playing tobwin, then you arent reqlly playing (around, to clarify).



Exactly. Possibly more than anyone else, mindgames are a huge factor for leon due to sheer scare tactics.

I get the neck lift off people trying to counter all the time. Have you ever seen how much damage that does on a high counter over water? It's almost the same as a high counter desert falcon...and sinking them for that much health is reaaaallly satisfying lol.


Plus, I prefer air falcon because I can change where I'm throwing them then.

At high level, you will not see Hold spamming as much as you would in a casual fight. Not only Desert Falcon, but any throw is actually hard to pull off once the shit gets real. Not to mention that if there was a hold to be spammed at that level, it would most likely be the low hold.

As long as you guys are having fun, whatever. I am simply pointing out the more optimal punish ..

 

[Argentus]

At high level, you will not see Hold spamming as much as you would in a casual fight. Not only Desert Falcon, but any throw is actually hard to pull off once the shit gets real. Not to mention that if there was a hold to be spammed at that level, it would most likely be the low hold.

As long as you guys are having fun, whatever. I am simply pointing out the more optimal punish ..

Okay, but I play online.
On ps3.

High level play is simply not a factor. I can afford to have fun instead of just playing to win.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Okay, but I play online.
On ps3.

High level play is simply not a factor. I can afford to have fun instead of just playing to win.

Are you just the type of person that likes to always have the last say ?
Listen, I'm not gonna go around in circles any longer with this conversation..

We need to discuss things that are optimal, its good to point out what works and what doesn't and thank you for sharing the headbutt tech. Its cool, but in an actual fight its fucking impractical and useless. but I guess if by some fluke it ever happened to someone, thank you for pointing it out so it doesn't surprise the player.

With the games new rule system with regards to strikes, if 2 moves collided at their active frames the stronger move with ALWAYS win.. in this case Jan Lee's dragon kick does 55 DMG and Leon's headbutt will only do 25 DMG. The only reason you're getting it is because you're either hitting him when hes about to jump or after he lands (i.e in his start up or recovery frames but not his active) .. so its natural that you get the standing stun. his headbutt is 15 fucking frames, crouching is 1 frame.. then you have all the time in the world to land any throw on earth so you might as well go with the one that does the best damage!

And NO sir, you CANNOT easily get the damage elsewhere with Leon. Hes SLOW, his guard breaker 3PP being his fastest pressure tool puts him at -1 (NOT PLUS), his crushes are unsafe as fuck, and a lot of his stuff is reactable. I'm not saying hes a bad character but it sure as hell isn't EASY to get the damage with him.

And we're also NOT discussing ONLINE TECH. In fact, if you wanna go down that shitty road then Ayane's 3PK and 6K2K are natural combos online that cannot be held with a 3 bar connection or less. same with helena's 66KP, and probably the same goes for leons 2KK on hit.. but all that is shit information that no1 wants to take on board because in actual fact in an offline setting its not fucking true and it only develops bad habits. Just like when I mentioned a while back that 2H+KK is NOT a natural combo. This site is designed with the competitive player in mind. Yes, there is room for casual discussion here and there but not when talking about tech because people come to this site to learn.

And finally, if you can't consistently land a half circle throw then practice.. choosing the headbutt as an alternative is not an excuse... hell standing normal throw is even a better option. AND ITS NOT SPAMMING! The only way it would be spamming is if the player you're fighting is also an idiot and is spamming his dragon kick... and in that case they deserve to be thrown and die in a fire, preferably with a desert falcon.

Now get up and wipe your ass ... you Pansy!

 

[Brute]

And finally, if you can't consistently land a half circle throw then practice.. choosing the headbutt as an alternative is not an excuse... hell standing normal throw is even a better option. AND ITS NOT SPAMMING! The only way it would be spamming is if the player you're fighting is also an idiot and is spamming his dragon kick... and in that case they deserve to be thrown and die in a fire, preferably with a desert falcon.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[Rikuto]

Argentus this is your homework. No offense intended, it's very useful and helpful to everybody.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

 

[Argentus]

Are you just the type of person that likes to always have the last say ?
Listen, I'm not gonna go around in circles any longer with this conversation..

We need to discuss things that are optimal, its good to point out what works and what doesn't and thank you for sharing the headbutt tech. Its cool, but in an actual fight its fucking impractical and useless. but I guess if by some fluke it ever happened to someone, thank you for pointing it out so it doesn't surprise the player.

With the games new rule system with regards to strikes, if 2 moves collided at their active frames the stronger move with ALWAYS win.. in this case Jan Lee's dragon kick does 55 DMG and Leon's headbutt will only do 25 DMG. The only reason you're getting it is because you're either hitting him when hes about to jump or after he lands (i.e in his start up or recovery frames but not his active) .. so its natural that you get the standing stun. his headbutt is 15 fucking frames, crouching is 1 frame.. then you have all the time in the world to land any throw on earth so you might as well go with the one that does the best damage!

And NO sir, you CANNOT easily get the damage elsewhere with Leon. Hes SLOW, his guard breaker 3PP being his fastest pressure tool puts him at -1 (NOT PLUS), his crushes are unsafe as fuck, and a lot of his stuff is reactable. I'm not saying hes a bad character but it sure as hell isn't EASY to get the damage with him.

And we're also NOT discussing ONLINE TECH. In fact, if you wanna go down that shitty road then Ayane's 3PK and 6K2K are natural combos online that cannot be held with a 3 bar connection or less. same with helena's 66KP, and probably the same goes for leons 2KK on hit.. but all that is shit information that no1 wants to take on board because in actual fact in an offline setting its not fucking true and it only develops bad habits. Just like when I mentioned a while back that 2H+KK is NOT a natural combo. This site is designed with the competitive player in mind. Yes, there is room for casual discussion here and there but not when talking about tech because people come to this site to learn.

And finally, if you can't consistently land a half circle throw then practice.. choosing the headbutt as an alternative is not an excuse... hell standing normal throw is even a better option. AND ITS NOT SPAMMING! The only way it would be spamming is if the player you're fighting is also an idiot and is spamming his dragon kick... and in that case they deserve to be thrown and die in a fire, preferably with a desert falcon.

Now get up and wipe your ass ... you Pansy!

Still cam easily.get the damage elsewhere, since df is only slightly more than most other moves. Any other justbas slow or faster move replaces it just fine.

Can get as angry as ya want, but its still true. Df is just one of many high damage moves leon has. I love to use mixup instead of just spamming df.

As for half circle moves, of it was an issue if me being unable to do it consistently, i wouldnt favor dervish throw so much. I just dont trust online plus jab happy opponents enough to risk standing df most of the time.

Look, I play leon how i play him, its effective so far, ya aint gonna change my mind on that unless it stops being effective, so please just take what you will from my posts, vice versa for me, and don't get so riled up and aggressive in the future. And like I said, everyone, me included, alreqdy know how good desert falcon os, and i do use it. I was just saying what another option is. I use it for mixup to keep myself entertained, unless i absolutelt need df to win. Which is almost never the case.


Sorry for typos, I'm tired of correcting this stupid touchscreen.

Argentus this is your homework. No offense intended, it's very useful and helpful to everybody.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Read it, nothing important or worthwhile.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Read it, nothing important or worthwhile.

A whole book .. 144 pages .. in less than 5 minutes .... OK now I really give up.

 

[PJudge]

Boy, that escalated quickly.

Neck Hang Hold on HiCounter is awesome, I do it a lot, but I actually prefer to do his Shoulder Slam and then go for the free 2T.2T, even though it's breakable. But that doesn't mean that the HiCounter Desert Falcon should be ignored.

I used to struggle with doing it a lot, and then I started playing MvC3 and that's all about that kind of movement so I suddenly got good at it quickly, because you need to in that game. How that transfers to DOA is that the Desert Falcon is pretty much Leon's way of saying "go on, hold me again, I fucking dare you" because on HiCounter they lose just shy of half a bar and, I cannot stress this enough, that scares the shit out of people. Missed Holds are so unsafe that you can literally do this and it works: 6PP *pause* Desert Falcon. You don't even have to pause, just go straight into it as if it was meant to be and most people try to hold out of the Solid Cannon.

I can see where you're coming from Argentus, but C0W is right. If you're deliberately not doing a Desert Falcon because you feel that the damage can be found somewhere else, then you're sacrificing damage for your own reasons and making it harder on yourself. Leon is a brutal character, and I will never drop him, but in DOA5U he is more of a "pressure-by-intimidation" character. So you can get more damage somewhere else, right? Well why not try adding a little bit of risk and add a hold bait into your repertoire and end with Desert Falcon? Imagine the damage from that, and not only that but it's satisfying because once you see them go for the hold then you know that they're fucked.

Just out of curiosity, what do you play with? Pad, Stick, Fightpad?

EDIT: Also, I play to win online (XBL) and still have fun. The fun for me is watching people get scared because of how effectively Leon can deal HiC damage. And I like to throw people around like ragdolls.

 

[Sly Bass]

If by shoulder slam, you mean , the opponent can tech it. If they don't tech, then it is guaranteed.

 

[Argentus]

A whole book .. 144 pages .. in less than 5 minutes .... OK now I really give up.

I had already read through it before. Not just after he posted that link.

 

[Argentus]

Boy, that escalated quickly.

Neck Hang Hold on HiCounter is awesome, I do it a lot, but I actually prefer to do his Shoulder Slam and then go for the free 2T.2T, even though it's breakable. But that doesn't mean that the HiCounter Desert Falcon should be ignored.

I used to struggle with doing it a lot, and then I started playing MvC3 and that's all about that kind of movement so I suddenly got good at it quickly, because you need to in that game. How that transfers to DOA is that the Desert Falcon is pretty much Leon's way of saying "go on, hold me again, I fucking dare you" because on HiCounter they lose just shy of half a bar and, I cannot stress this enough, that scares the shit out of people. Missed Holds are so unsafe that you can literally do this and it works: 6PP *pause* Desert Falcon. You don't even have to pause, just go straight into it as if it was meant to be and most people try to hold out of the Solid Cannon.

I can see where you're coming from Argentus, but C0W is right. If you're deliberately not doing a Desert Falcon because you feel that the damage can be found somewhere else, then you're sacrificing damage for your own reasons and making it harder on yourself. Leon is a brutal character, and I will never drop him, but in DOA5U he is more of a "pressure-by-intimidation" character. So you can get more damage somewhere else, right? Well why not try adding a little bit of risk and add a hold bait into your repertoire and end with Desert Falcon? Imagine the damage from that, and not only that but it's satisfying because once you see them go for the hold then you know that they're fucked.

Just out of curiosity, what do you play with? Pad, Stick, Fightpad?

EDIT: Also, I play to win online (XBL) and still have fun. The fun for me is watching people get scared because of how effectively Leon can deal HiC damage. And I like to throw people around like ragdolls.

Thing is, the damage difference is so negligible that im not really sacrificing anything byvdoing a different move.

Anyways, reason I do different moves is just because I get bored doing desert falcon all the time. That's all there us to it.

I prefer 360s, but right now I'm using ps3 dpad.

For me, just winning is meaningless, unless there's an actual reward, like tourney money. For me, how I get the win is more important.

If by shoulder slam, you mean , the opponent can tech it. If they don't tech, then it is guaranteed.

I think he means the running shoulder ram.

 

[PJudge]

If by shoulder slam, you mean , the opponent can tech it. If they don't tech, then it is guaranteed.

Most of the people I fight don't tech it, so I forget that it's not guaranteed. That is what I meant though, I thought it was called that, but I imagine it's called something totally different.

Thing is, the damage difference is so negligible that im not really sacrificing anything byvdoing a different move.

Anyways, reason I do different moves is just because I get bored doing desert falcon all the time. That's all there us to it.

I prefer 360s, but right now I'm using ps3 dpad.

For me, just winning is meaningless, unless there's an actual reward, like tourney money. For me, how I get the win is more important.

Fair enough if you get bored doing the same thing, I get the same way sometimes but I never look a gift horse in the mouth. If the opportunity is there, I'll still take it.

My roommate is the same in that it's how he gets his wins, not that he gets wins. I don't get it, personally. I take the wins I get and the fun is when I get a particularly close game that gets my heart pounding, or a game where I'm on the ball and absolutely tear someone apart. I suppose that's all how you enjoy your experience though.

 

[Argentus]

Most of the people I fight don't tech it, so I forget that it's not guaranteed. That is what I meant though, I thought it was called that, but I imagine it's called something totally different.


Fair enough if you get bored doing the same thing, I get the same way sometimes but I never look a gift horse in the mouth. If the opportunity is there, I'll still take it.

My roommate is the same in that it's how he gets his wins, not that he gets wins. I don't get it, personally. I take the wins I get and the fun is when I get a particularly close game that gets my heart pounding, or a game where I'm on the ball and absolutely tear someone apart. I suppose that's all how you enjoy your experience though.

Yeah i dont give two shits if I win if I didnt have fun doing it. I hate getting a win only to walk away really dissapointed with myself because of how I won.

I take pride in how I play, so I'm striving to make my playstyle both fun and efficient. Not just efficient.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

change of topic

charged P+K T is a great hold bait option for Leon, i used it a bunch of times in the fight with rachel below

Its surprisingly more consistent and useful than i thought it would be. it works well against low hold spammers who use it to try an avoid desert falcon or any of his other throws and useful for his mixup game on people who instantly hold during a stun only for him to charge it up and hit them during their hold recovery while granting him a guaranteed air grab. not to mention during stun at full charge it gives him instant CB in as little as 2 hits on opponents who hold wrong.

 

[UprisingJC]

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

OH MY GOD AT THE LAST 5 SECONDS OF THE VIDEO !!! I LOVE IT !!!
I'm sorry but I must steal that from you .. lol

 

[KidArk]

So... I'm sorry I may not have read through all of Leon's threads thoroughly enough but have people found death combos with Leon? I'll try to get someone to capture for me , however; regardless of that in home leon has a death combo on NH... i can't remember it but i do remember this?

On HiCT its 346 ...lol?
CT 306
NH well it doesn't kill okay :c

4P 6K 3P BURST! PL ! 3P T 8PPP 28 T 4K 2T T

You can do more damaging bursts and 3P 3P after the power launcher but that CB doesn't wall splat so it's less prone to making a mess of the home. I think the NH kill combo used 7K 2K 3K Burst , not sure though.

Also near bouncing danger zones like the balls in the circus or the flames in fuel

3P 3P T T

The bounce gives Leon enough height to throw them again

I usually do 4P 6K 3P BURST 3P T Adjust the aim so that it throws them back into the hazard T it does so much damage.

I had another kill combo but my ps3 broke so i can't really test right now, I should be getting a new one tomorrow, this ps3 lasted me since launch so I guess it's been a good run? It works but it just cuts off if i start to play games , i think I need to reapply the thermal paste or something. I'll probably fix it then give it away or something... oops i went off on a rant there SORRY LOL.

 

[Pictured Mind]

Great videos, Fork and Uprising.
I recently started playing Leon in casuals and he's a great character. I can honestly say that his air throw is one of the coolest moves in the game. <3

 

[Awesmic]

A whole book .. 144 pages .. in less than 5 minutes .... OK now I really give up.

I'm sure he meant "nothing important or worthwhile for him, since he's never actually going to a tourney". But then, in perspective, it gives him an excuse to continue to be antagonistic.