Throwing an opponent that is in critical stun

[Jefffcore]

Meant "through". I think you're taking it a little to literal...

 

[d3v]

I don't want to have to guess... or "read" as you like to call it. I don't have to in other fighting games, but I'm forced to in DOA, even with the changes. It's still my main complaint. Fuzzy guard helps, but it's not enough as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know what FGs you're talking about, but I hope you're not including 2D ones in that list as reading is an important part of some of the best 2D fighters - 3S and GG both require that you input the tech at the almost exact same time as the opponents throw; meanwhile in SSF2T, if you didn't punch them in the fact at the exact moment, you were either going to get thrown or eating a fierce punch (option select throws).

 

[Skilletor]

Meant "through". I think you're taking it a little to literal...

The part where break = tech.

Or the part where command throws go through everything. At least, I think you meant through.

As I said.

Your typo doesn't make you any less wrong.

 

[d3v]

It's possible.

What can you break in SF? You can tech a throw, and Command Throws go through everything. Still guessing.

You can only do so in a select few SF games (3S, IV). You could not tech in the classic ones, in fact one of the best things about ST was that you could be an ass with 'Rog and tick throw your opponent to death.

And no, command throws can be stuffed if you know the frame data.

 

[Jefffcore]

I don't know what FGs you're talking about, but I hope you're not including 2D ones in that list as reading is an important part of some of the best 2D fighters - 3S and GG both require that you input the tech at the almost exact same time as the opponents throw; meanwhile in SSF2T, if you didn't punch them in the fact at the exact moment, you were either going to get thrown or eating a fierce punch (option select throws).

Would you say SSF4 is more or less the same situation?

As I said.

Your typo doesn't make you any less wrong.

But my ability to ignore you definitely makes me less frustrated.

You can only do so in a select few SF games (3S, IV). You could not tech in the classic ones, in fact one of the best things about ST was that you could be an ass with 'Rog and tick throw your opponent to death.


And no, command throws can be stuffed if you know the frame data.

Command throws going through everything was an exaggeration....

The general point was stopping someone punch throwing you in DOA is cake in comparison

 

[d3v]

Would you say SSF4 is more or less the same situation?

IV is meh because you can do shit like crouch teching.

 

[virtuaPAI]

I don't know what FGs you're talking about, but I hope you're not including 2D ones in that list as reading is an important part of some of the best 2D fighters - 3S and GG both require that you input the tech at the almost exact same time as the opponents throw; meanwhile in SSF2T, if you didn't punch them in the fact at the exact moment, you were either going to get thrown or eating a fierce punch (option select throws).

-I agree with you. VF another 3d fighter works on the same premise as Doa. ~ is either evaded(fuzzy guard), Counter attack, or a throw escaped(and that is a guess/read in itself). This is the 3d fighter that is known for "Reads".

 

[Jefffcore]

But comparing Teching in IV would be accurate to someone throwing an attack to stop a throw in DOA.

That was my origional point, before everyones need to be literal just to argue joined....

 

[virtuaPAI]

But comparing Teching in IV would be accurate to someone throwing an attack to stop a throw in DOA.

That was my origional point, before everyones need to be literal with teching/breaking for some need to argue....

-And you can get a High counter Blow/strike launch + Juggle + Environmental interaction.This is nothing game breaking or over powered. Its just a matter of training yourself in seeing the delay, than punishing.

-Back to the earlier subject, It seems like all of Tina's hit throws from doa3 can be done on an opponent that is in a critical state.

 

[Matt Ponton]

IV is meh because you can do shit like crouch teching.

And there's guessing involved in that as well, as the attacking player can delay the throw attempt to catch the crouch teching c.lk player's kick before it hits.

 

[d3v]

And there's guessing involved in that as well, as the attacking player can delay the throw attempt to catch the crouch teching c.lk player's kick before it hits.

This is off topic but the issue with crouch tech is that it's another option given to players while crouching/holding down back (this is why you can't do it in Skullgirls, because the players hate the concept so Mike Z made sure it wouldn't be in his game).

 

[DrDogg]

I don't know what FGs you're talking about, but I hope you're not including 2D ones in that list as reading is an important part of some of the best 2D fighters - 3S and GG both require that you input the tech at the almost exact same time as the opponents throw; meanwhile in SSF2T, if you didn't punch them in the fact at the exact moment, you were either going to get thrown or eating a fierce punch (option select throws).

I play 3D fighters.

-I agree with you. VF another 3d fighter works on the same premise as Doa. ~ is either evaded(fuzzy guard), Counter attack, or a throw escaped(and that is a guess/read in itself). This is the 3d fighter that is known for "Reads".

There's a big difference between "reading" someone in Soul Calibur and guessing in DOA. And again, I don't have to take risks in other 3D fighters. I can make a gamble and try to read the opponent, but I most certainly do not have to if I want to win. In DOA, even with all of the changes, I'm still forced to guess over and over again.

-And you can get a High counter Blow/strike launch + Juggle + Environmental interaction.This is nothing game breaking or over powered. Its just a matter of training yourself in seeing the delay, than punishing.

What delay?

It's one thing to fuzzy guard. It's another to see a free cancel and interrupt a throw attempt before it happens. You're not going to see that throw coming. At best, you guessed the opponent would throw after you guessed that they free canceled.

Call it what it is instead of trying to make it seem like some advanced tactic that requires awesome reactions not seen in other fighting games.

 

[UncleKitchener]

If your most solid punish is a throw, then your triangle is actually a line segment.

 

[virtuaPAI]

There's a big difference between "reading" someone in Soul Calibur and guessing in DOA. And again, I don't have to take risks in other 3D fighters. I can make a gamble and try to read the opponent, but I most certainly do not have to if I want to win. In DOA, even with all of the changes, I'm still forced to guess over and over again.

-Reading in Doa(sans Doa4) is the same thing as in other fighting game. Different games require you to use different skill sets to excel. Many people in this very thread are not having the same problems as you, so it is not a universal issue.

What delay?

-The Delay as in the pause after is executed leading into the free canceled follow up.

It's one thing to fuzzy guard. It's another to see a free cancel and interrupt a throw attempt before it happens. You're not going to see that throw coming. At best, you guessed the opponent would throw after you guessed that they free canceled.

-This is the problem that you are specifically having. Anyone who studies Doa, knows that that is free canceled leave the the attacker at a disadvantage. Anything thrown out afterwards can be snuffed out by the defending players attack. Any attack that is delayed, is susceptible To jabs. Doing a Jab after anyone of these situations is a safe Maneuver.

Call it what it is instead of trying to make it seem like some advanced tactic that requires awesome reactions not seen in other fighting games.

-No, not at all. Its a matter of you obtaining a new skill set that many others have already picked up on. This is exactly why you did not see this in abundance in either Doa2U of Doa4 Tournament Play.

 

[DrDogg]

Any attack that is delayed, is susceptible To jabs. Doing a Jab after anyone of these situations is a safe Maneuver.

Unless the opponent uses an attack that crushes highs, or in the case of DOA5, steps your jabs.

 

[Matt Ponton]

You can still guard their step attack, the jab recovers before the step finishes...

 

[DrDogg]

You can still guard their step attack, the jab recovers before the step finishes...

So I step, then throw... or just use a crush attack. Either way, a jab is not a "safe option".

 

[Matt Ponton]

So I step, then throw... or just use a crush attack. Either way, a jab is not a "safe option".

If the jab recovers before the step finishes... how are you able to crush or throw it?

 

[d3v]

I play 3D fighters.

But does it really matter? Isn't "yomi" (aka, the art of reading your opponent) an important part of any fighting game?

 

[Shinigamimatt]

I think a good thing that separates good players from great, is being able to read faster. It was hard in DOAU when I first got into DOA, but so many people that could beat my Ayane were telling me these things. Specifically, watching for the slight delay between combos. Even low pokes. That's practically their only purpose.

 

[d3v]

I think a good thing that separates good players from great, is being able to read faster. It was hard in DOAU when I first got into DOA, but so many people that could beat my Ayane were telling me these things. Specifically, watching for the slight delay between combos. Even low pokes. That's practically their only purpose.

From a general FG perspective, it's more than just that. "Yomi" is know to do X-move at a certain time because you've read that your opponent will do Y-move.