Tina's New Ground Game in DOA5U

[OolongTea]

Wow Pac, I think the with the right distance guarantees the , nice!
Also after you hit them with they're in the same face down state. At certain distances it was very hard to avoid the , other times it seemed easy.

 

[PacManila]

Wow Pac, I think the with the right distance guarantees the , nice!
Also after you hit them with they're in the same face down state. At certain distances it was very hard to avoid the , other times it seemed easy.

The moonsault does put them in the same face down state, but it lost the hard knockdown state it gave from vanilla. It's easier to avoid the FT when hit by that move.

Another thing I want to add. If the opponent DOES get up before hits, you won't be completely defenseless. On whiff, your at -6, but you can threaten with the followup after to avoid possible throw punishment or interrupt an incoming attack.

I edited my post about the FT to make it easier to understand. If others could test this out more and post their results here, maybe we can get a better understanding about its effectiveness (or lack of).

 

[OolongTea]

Thanks for the clarification, Pac.
After the FT, what are your best options? Another to beat attacks and when they start blocking go for throws/OHs?

 

[StryBlu]

Thanks for the clarification, Pac.
After the FT, what are your best options? Another to beat attacks and when they start blocking go for throws/OHs?

you pretty much answered your own question lol.

Most of the time well atleast the opponents i experimented on which were new players/core players, 70% of the time they either attack or just dont hold the block button, so I just go for another 6 H+K lol which seem to beat most of their attacks

 

[Django]

Team ninja clearly don't what you to force tech in a combo, up coming nerf on the way.

and back when ground throw was +5 it gets nerf to 0 cause people said it was a combo when it clearly wasn't it take 8 frame to connect ground throw and it only +5, it was a problem with the online not the move. 4H+P is +5 and people get caught by ground throw sometimes cause they didn't recover, it was no different before.

 

[PacManila]

In vanilla before the patches, you could ground throw them infinitely under certain situations. That was the reason for the change in frames after a successful ground throw.

@Tea: After the FT, you have quite a few options. Like stry said, you could put them in another FT situation with 6H+K, but you could also put them in a stun if they choose to attack by using 66P, 66K, or 6K. If you think that they're going to block, you can go for 46P to put them in a frame trap or go for a throw (which also stops sidesteps). 1K and 4P can also be used if you think that they're going to sidestep.

 

[MasterHavik]

New ground game? Question can she still get a free ground throw after the powerbomb air throw she does?

 

[Doa_Eater]

New ground game? Question can she still get a free ground throw after the powerbomb air throw she does?

That has never been a guarantee, but otherwise it remains the same.

 

[MasterHavik]

That has never been a guarantee, but otherwise it remains the same.

Really? I thought it was. I saw you do ti a few times. They must have forgotten to tech.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

The timing for teching Throws that "slam" you on the ground is different than any regular knockdown so it throws people off... Even in training i cant consistently tech Tinas 4T

 

[Doa_Eater]

The timing for teching Throws that "slam" you on the ground is different than any regular knockdown so it throws people off... Even in training i cant consistently tech Tinas 4T

Just like they left a guarantee ground throw after 8p as a juggle.

 

[OolongTea]

Tell me you guys have some setups to get the to hit for +6 advantage on block lol
Just by using the BT which gives +3 at close range I was able to make people so scared of hitting buttons that I scored a lot of JOCs using the 66 4T buffer after. Hitting this on wakeup for +6... we could conquer the world, nay, the whole universe

 

[PacManila]

Tell me you guys have some setups to get the to hit for +6 advantage on block lol
Just by using the BT which gives +3 at close range I was able to make people so scared of hitting buttons that I scored a lot of JOCs using the 66 4T buffer after. Hitting this on wakeup for +6... we could conquer the world, nay, the whole universe

I always thought this would always give -1 on block as that's the value I always saw in the lab. After just trying it out more, I was surprised to see that it really did give plus frames on block. So far, it seems like it's distance dependent, meaning from farther distances, you'll get more plus frames on block (from +4 to +6!). However at close ranges, the frames seem to vary. I'll sometimes get +1 or 2 at a short distance and -1 at the same distance

To me, this would have been her best move to beat out wake-up kicks, but the start-up was too long for it to be a reliable move against them. But now, seeing the benefits when using this from a distance and combining it with Korean Backdashing and the moonsault's 8 active frames, this could prove very useful against wakeups. Timing would still come into play to beat out the kicks, but those 8 active frames would at least make things easier.

 

[Doa_Eater]

Lots of spacing frametraps PacManila, 66k can be made as low as -4 from -7 on guard, the shoulder block 46p can also go to +3 or +4.

 

[PacManila]

Lots of spacing frametraps PacManila, 66k can be made as low as -4 from -7 on guard, the shoulder block 46p can also go to +3 or +4.

To me it's weird spacing with Tina because she's more comfortable up close. Only time I do space is in a wake-up situation where I would use the moves you mentioned. I'm going to experiment some more with 6P+K though. The active frames can really beat out attacks and I seem to hit people more from a distance with it compared to 46P, which is probably the guard break I use the most due to the plus frames from a distance.

 

[Doa_Eater]

To me it's weird spacing with Tina because she's more comfortable up close. Only time I do space is in a wake-up situation where I would use the moves you mentioned. I'm going to experiment some more with 6P+K though. The active frames can really beat out attacks and I seem to hit people more from a distance with it compared to 46P, which is probably the guard break I use the most due to the plus frames from a distance.

She is more comfortable up close, i consider those moves like a lead in to a close down and rush game. Because you are in a lose lose situation if you strait up turtle or rush on characters like Christie,Kasumi,Ayane,Rig,Sarah Pai.

 

[OolongTea]

Maybe we've focused too much on boobs and forgotten about the ass... ()
It can give +6 on block with the right spacing, has 11 active frames and can beat kicks with very strict timing I think, and hits them on the ground if they stay there.

@Pac, I've found it to be very unreliable to beat kicks also. I was thinking more in terms of making them just have to block it after they tech or something. Still testing this on the lab. Can they sidestep as soon as they finish teching? Maybe if they couldn't sidestep right away or had a just frame timing I could find some use for the BT oki. That thing is linear as hell though One thing that's cool but maybe not very useful about the is that if it does hit them otg on the other side it gives massive advantage, like +29 or something lol

@Eater is really godlike, thanks for reminding me of that lol I swear that move has some invincibility frames! It's like a shoryuken that gives advantage on block lol Maybe I should just learn the correct spacing of the +4 on block thing and use that to keep the offense going
edit: it gives +5 at max range I'm happy getting +3 already, tho

 

[Doa_Eater]

Maybe we've focused too much on boobs and forgotten about the ass... ()
It can give +6 on block with the right spacing, has 11 active frames and can beat kicks with very strict timing I think, and hits them on the ground if they stay there.

Love that move also, it still techs, also to share more secrets about it, after powerblowing someone on the lower tier of the scramble stage into the flying car you have time to do into the other standing car there with that crane falling down.

 

[RubinRoon]

I also like to use her neutral throw as a quick hold punish (on reaction, mostly), because it deals decent damage and you can see if you get a ground throw or not, because your opponent has to tech immediatly after hitting the ground. If they dont you get that ground throw for a total of 110 dmg (I think) on hi counter off of a 4 frame throw. It is very gimmicky, I admit, but it works quite well on most people.

Also, do you know any throws that guarantee a groundthrow?

 

[Doa_Eater]

Nothing guarantee but the 8 frame back throw is soooo good for ground throws.