Tougeki Combo Exhibition!

[Arnell Long]

I'm sure it does since you can't counter out of sit down stuns in general. I guess certain characters will have certain setups such as that seeing as how...

Edit: Kasumi was able to get a GB "Ground Bounce" within Mid combo while some of the other characters may not be able to.

The statement you made earlier about OH's can be said about setups and whatnot, which is being less universal this time around giving characters more individuality.

 

[DrDogg]

So now we'll actually see the breakable throw animations. Exciting!

No, he's talking about the neutral throws that have always been breakable. This is nothing new. The part that's new is that more attacks will be -5, meaning you can punish with a neutral throw, but you can buffer a break so the punishment isn't guaranteed. Essentially, more safe attacks...

''We also changed the critical threshold from 24, 30, 36 to 28, 35, 42.''
Could someone explain that to me. I dont really understand what it means.

As far as I can tell, it's not damage based. It "seems" as though every attack has a specific stun value. When the stun value exceeds a certain amount, you cross the stun threshold. It seems as though Shimbori has increased the stun value required to make that happen.

Since slow, heavy-hitting attacks most likely have a larger stun value, it will take fewer of those attacks to reach a CB point, but more quick, light attacks.

I'm really glad they upped critical threshold. This makes earning a burst a lot more challenging and reduces the repeatability.

There's a fine line here. If it takes too much work to get a CB, then they become worthless. Why extend to the 4th hit of a combo when you can just land a sit-down stun on the second hit and launch from there?

If you have to extend to the 4th hit to get the juggle height you want, then we're right back to DOA4. I don't think that's the case, but that would be the only way to force someone to extend to 4 hits in a stun.

As for the snow stage, Welcome back to critical stun hell, where you get a sit down but the opponent slides a bit further back screwing your offense over and every jab stuns... lol .. I can't wait to play in it

In the E3 build, water was actually a negative thing. Yes, you got CH for everything, but a sit-down in water allowed the opponent to counter immediately. If it remains that way, people are going to avoid water, and that snow stage, like the plague.

before, if you got a high counter move u just needed like one more hit and then you got a chance to burst ...

It also means that in the old case of bayman in the e3 build doing counter hit sitdown stun straight into critical burst that he will probably need to add in a little extra poke just to break the threshold barrier.

All of this is wrong.

I'm a bit curious about the two sit down stuns Rig did back to back. I wonder if you do that does it continue to be unholdable.

Bayman had this at E3. P+K on normal hit was a sit-down stun, so you could do...
P+K > 3K > 7P (CB) > Launch and it was all unholdable after the P+K hit. Kokoro had a similar combo. Both can be seen in the character exhibitions from E3.

I'm sure it does since you can't counter out of sit down stuns in general. I guess certain characters will have certain setups such as that seeing as how Kasumi was able to get two GB's within one combo while some of the other characters may not be able to.

Two GBs? Guard breaks? o_0

 

[Arnell Long]

GB...Ground Bounce...lol...should've clarified that a bit more, my bad...

And I just watched the video again and Kasumi does one Ground Bounce...I meant to say doing a Ground Bounce in Mid combo.

 

[DrDogg]

GB...Ground Bounce...lol...should've clarified that more, my bad...

And I just watched the video again and Kasumi does one Ground Bounce...I meant to say doing a Ground Bounce in Mid combo.

Okay, I was just about to say, I didn't see any combos with two "bounds". I'm using the Tekken term so that we don't get it confused with guard breaks.

We knew bounds were in the game though, but it's nice to see more of the cast having access to them.

 

[Arnell Long]

Yes I agree, the Tekken term is much safer to go with, I should have used "Bound" instead of "GB" which can easily be mistaken as Guard Break.

 

[DR2K]

No, he's talking about the neutral throws that have always been breakable. This is nothing new. The part that's new is that more attacks will be -5, meaning you can punish with a neutral throw, but you can buffer a break so the punishment isn't guaranteed. Essentially, more safe attacks...

I meant neuteral throws would be used more.

 

[DrDogg]

I meant neuteral throws would be used more.

In theory, I'd agree... but I don't know. I think it will depend on the character. If you're at disadvantage after an opponent breaks your throw, then I don't see people going for that. Instead, they'll probably just start their offense with an attack or something.

At E3 grapplers had advantage when you broke their combo throws. If they also have advantage after a neutral throw is broken, then you'll see those characters going for throws in those situations.

At the very least it adds another layer to character diversity, which is always a good thing.

 

[MrMoon360]

I'm a little disappointed that Akira didn't go for a ground bounce. :/

Edit: And maybe what is described in the video means Ayane's throw that grants her the back turn will actually be useful.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I'm a little disappointed that Akira didn't go for a ground bounce. :/

yeah it seems that they just went with difficult excecution combos for him rather than practical combos with better potential

 

[Doug Nguyen]

'Offensive Hold: Also known as the catch throw/catch grab. A Offensive Hold acts as a Throw with Offensive holds properties meaning it beats out attacks, and defensive holds, but its beaten by all Throws. AKA the catch throw/catch grab."

So do offensive holds beat out most strikes or is it only slow strikes? Oh and has anyone concluded what those stun numbers meant? They seemed so low for the limit of the threshold. Seemed to make more sense for launcher height but then that would make critical burst less useful, if max height is at 42. Since im guessing max threshold is at maybe 60ish.

 

[DrDogg]

Edit: And maybe what is described in the video means Ayane's throw that grants her the back turn will actually be useful.

That throw and any fast, unbreakable throw that grants a full combo are very dangerous. The way throw punishment works in this game, I don't think any character needs that kind of tool. Although, depending on the other tools a character has, you can balance it out.

yeah it seems that they just went with difficult excecution combos for him rather than practical combos with better potential

If you didn't ignore me, you might have a better understanding of the new mechanics in this game. Just sayin...

'Offensive Hold: Also known as the catch throw/catch grab. A Offensive Hold acts as a Throw with Offensive holds properties meaning it beats out attacks, and defensive holds, but its beaten by all Throws. AKA the catch throw/catch grab."

So do offensive holds beat out most strikes or is it only slow strikes?

Not to be mean... I'm all for you asking questions and trying to better educate yourself on the game and the system mechanics, but you do need to do a little thinking on your own. Read the definition in your post. What part of that would make you think an offensive hold only beats slow attacks?

An offensive hold beats out attacks during a certain window, similar to a counterhold. If the attack is active during the window, the offensive hold beats it. Whether the attack is slow or fast isn't really important. It just depends on the timing of your offensive hold in relation to the attack.

You would normally use an offensive hold if you expect an opponent will try to attack you with a strike... after a blocked safe attack or other similar situations.

Oh and has anyone concluded what those stun numbers meant? They seemed so low for the limit of the threshold. Seemed to make more sense for launcher height but then that would make critical burst less useful, if max height is at 42. Since im guessing max threshold is at maybe 60ish.

I mentioned it in one of my previous posts.

As far as I can tell, it's not damage based. It "seems" as though every attack has a specific stun value. When the stun value exceeds a certain amount, you cross the stun threshold. It seems as though Shimbori has increased the stun value required to make that happen.

Since slow, heavy-hitting attacks most likely have a larger stun value, it will take fewer of those attacks to reach a CB point, but more quick, light attacks.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

So has the threshold always been only stun value and not damage? And i wont if training mode will tell you the stun value of an attack.

 

[DrDogg]

So has the threshold always been only stun value and not damage? And i wont if training mode will tell you the stun value of an attack.

I didn't delve into the older games as much to be able to tell you if this is something new or not. In the old games it really didn't have as big of an impact since there was no CB and it basically only impacted launch height.

SF4 shows stun value in training mode, but that's a completely different type of stun value. I'll be talking more about the training mode very, very soon, but in the meantime, I will say that I'm trying to get stun values into the strategy guide. We'll see how things turn out.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I didn't delve into the older games as much to be able to tell you if this is something new or not. In the old games it really didn't have as big of an impact since there was no CB and it basically only impacted launch height.

SF4 shows stun value in training mode, but that's a completely different type of stun value. I'll be talking more about the training mode very, very soon, but in the meantime, I will say that I'm trying to get stun values into the strategy guide. We'll see how things turn out.

Alright thanks. And the reason why i thought it would be only slow attacks is because OH seemed to be to good to be true. If they act as counters and can catch any strike, wouldnt they be more useful than any counter? Unless OH come out slower than counters.

 

[DrDogg]

Alright thanks. And the reason why i thought it would be only slow attacks is because OH seemed to be to good to be true. If they act as counters and can catch any strike, wouldnt they be more useful than any counter? Unless OH come out slower than counters.

They're not instant like counterholds and they can be baited out just like counterholds. They have limitations, but they are useful.

 

[Rikuto]

.......... but if its stun value and not damage, whats the point of the flashing bar?

 

[grap3fruitman]

Not to be mean... I'm all for you asking questions and trying to better educate yourself on the game and the system mechanics, but you do need to do a little thinking on your own.

To be fair, he's actually trying to get a grip on the stuff and asking fair questions. I don't think straight definitions help as much as someone explaining things to you. Not that I'm any good but I wouldn't have a real grasp of the mechanics without some people on these forums being very patient with me.

 

[DrDogg]

.......... but if its stun value and not damage, whats the point of the flashing bar?

Damage plays a factor, but I don't think it's what those numbers are referring to. I could be wrong, but if those numbers represent damage, that's pretty low and doesn't really mesh with what we saw in the E3 build.

To be fair, he's actually trying to get a grip on the stuff and asking fair questions. I don't think straight definitions help as much as someone explaining things to you. Not that I'm any good but I wouldn't have a real grasp of the mechanics without some people on these forums being very patient with me.

Which is why I continue to answer his questions.

 

[MrMoon360]

That throw and any fast, unbreakable throw that grants a full combo are very dangerous. The way throw punishment works in this game, I don't think any character needs that kind of tool. Although, depending on the other tools a character has, you can balance it out.

I'd prefer to balance it than to strip of this tool. I do wonder what it would do to the throw system if they added breakable command throws like VF.

If you didn't ignore me, you might have a better understanding of the new mechanics in this game. Just sayin...

?
I thought his suggestion was probable. How else would we explain these Akira combos shown? After seeing Kasumi's ground bounce and Akira's launch height, I thought it would have been practical to stack on damage with a ground bounce. He has them in VF and they can help to add on devastating damage.

I'm really glad to see this mechanic implemented!

 

[DrDogg]

I'd prefer to balance it than to strip of this tool. I do wonder what it would do to the throw system if they added breakable command throws like VF.

They'd have to completely rework the risk/reward system because punishment would be completely off.