DOA6 Version 1.13 Patch Notes

How do you feel about the prices of Season Passes?

  • As a dedicated player of DOA6 the Season Pass price is too high.

    Votes: 16 45.7%
  • The quality of content is not high enough to warrant the price.

    Votes: 24 68.6%
  • You like the content, but the price is too high to entertain.

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • You buy individual pieces for your character.

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • The price meets your standard and doesn't effect your decision.

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • You continue to buy SPs or single items to support Team NINJA

    Votes: 8 22.9%

  • Total voters
    35

Team NINJA has released Version 1.13 Patch Notes for all platforms at their official website and have launched Season 3 with Halloween-themed Witch costumes exclusive to the female cast. The Season 3 Pass is priced at 79.99 USD and will include additional costumes from now through December. One additional character will be added in December, wildly believed to be Rachel who was found in the database by expert DOA modder, @gatto tom.

The bizarrely structured menu of Dead or Alive 6 is slightly improved in Version 1.13 as you can now quickly access your Wardrobe at DOA Central, but it's also one of the many ways costumes are advertised through individual purchase. Version 1.12 added one additional store link to the left panel of the main menu, and the news box on the top-right is easily the better view, but sends you to the exact same store page as the link regardless of what costume pack screenshot you are on. The main menu currently hosts five options that position you to buy costume DLC, and it's not only annoying, but clutters the main menu with the same exact result.

A competitive & dedicated player may ask: "Why are tournament results no longer present at the welcome screen like Dead or Alive 5?" or "Are costumes a higher priority to Team NINJA even though DOA6 was primarily advertised to be an e-Sport fighter? These questions were not answered with Version 1.13.

Team NINJA's Dead or Alive 6 World Championship has been a success in many different ways, but wouldn't they benefit from better event turnouts if the news box on the main menu featured tournament reminders? This would literally expose every returning player to their world championship, it could also help promote their less advertised online tournaments.


Since the fighting itself is the most important part of DOA6 you would hope for some exciting tweaks, but not many are present in Version 1.13. The loading times were improved for lower performing PCs, PS4 (excluding Pro) and XBOX ONE (excluding XBOX ONE X). This is a welcomed improvement for tournaments as long loading times can completely destroy the momentum of a great set.

There are a few good character fixes: Helena can lift higher with her second air hit of the :s: button, Raidou can get low wall damage from his 61234T in the air and Bass & Tina's swinging air throws were fixed to count damage correctly. Marie Rose has received a nerf despite being regarded as one of the weakest characters in DOA6, and Kula Diamond wasn't even slapped on the wrist after absolutely dominating more than one DOA6WC grand final. 1.13 adds a lot of modifications for the timing of damage, or adjustments to the design of a specific move, and doesn't provide a lot of exciting benefits to the cast's current move-pool.

Now what does "The timing of damage" actually imply for the selected moves? DOA professional and the creator of FSD, @Matt Ponton gives us some insight on the subject:
Answer: The frame the damage is calculated. For Bass' case in Version 1.13, Team NINJA made it so when he does his air throw into a red barrel on 'Forbidden Fortune' that it actually does damage now. Before, you'd only get the 10 points of wall damage and none of the air throw itself. Bug still exists for his 1H on low kicks into the red barrels though.
Version 1.13 is mostly an underwhelming release, and while DOA6 continues to be touched up regularly, it is taking a while to get anywhere with the game in a time where players are desiring big moves from Team NINJA. Hopefully we will see Version 1.14 before the Dead or Alive Festival & the Main Event in Tokyo, Japan. Do no expect to see the new character for SP3 anytime soon as Momiji was showcased only two weeks before her SP2 release.

Front Page Banner by @KasumiLover
 
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Comments

inochinagi

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Tina Armstrong
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inochinagi
PSN ID
Alekian
Been playing DOA6 almost every day, but even though I bought almost all the DLC for DOA5-DOA5LR (you're welcome, Team Ninja) it seems I'm not going to be doing that this time around. So far I've only bought, like, one costume each for Tina and Lisa, oh and I bought Mai (I should probably get around to Momiji too soon, and I'll definitely get Rachel). I'd support TN the same way I did with DOA5 if I felt they deserved it, but even then I felt I was crazy being probably one of the handful of people who liked the DLC content enough to buy almost all of it (with the help of sales later on though). If they had any heart in making the DLC or costumes in general back with DOA5, I think that's definitely all gone now. They're phoning it in like crazy compared to DOA5. They went from taking annual fan-created costumes for Halloween in DOA5 to this basic witches set in DOA6 (which leaves the guys out too). Almost every set has been "uniforms with a theme", with each character only getting slight variations or even color swaps of the same costumes as eachother (and the inconsistency with the damage factor makes zero sense and reeks of laziness). Barely any induviduality expressed between characters anymore. But I'm stil trying to keep my fingers crossed that they'll at least release a classic costumes set some day and DOA++ music.

But that's fine, I guess, at least my wallet is happy, and there's always DoA5LR (they really should have made a final complete edition though, preferably for Switch). Last two updates didnt even have them put in more intro or win animations (which should have been there day 1 anyways)... in a lot of ways (not every way) this game still isnt even on par with vanilla DOA5 for me. I'm mostly playing it over 5LR because I really enjoy the new moves Tina and Lisa gained.

If any sets go on sale, depending on how cheap they go, then I'll consider buying more (the preorder set is the best one so far, thats the one I got my only bought Tina and Lisa costumes from). But even then, now there's a couple of chars I dont care to get any DLC for so I'd prefer a sale on induvidual costumes.

"Are costumes a higher priority to Team NINJA than gameplay?" - Well if they are then they're doing a pretty poor job of that too, lol. I dont know what happened to TN between DOA5LR and DOA6. You'd think the apparent success of DOA5's entire run (unless I'm mistaken), tournaments and DLC sales and all, would have encouraged them to take what they did with DOA5LR and go even bigger and better rather than start again from scratch and just do DOA5 all over again with slightly prettier graphics but not nearly as good.
 
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Xion

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Bridgeport, CT
Main Character
Kokoro
i dont know what theyre waiting for.. the stages are in the game just make them available already...and fix the hit effects and other bugs.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Been playing DOA6 almost every day, but even though I bought almost all the DLC for DOA5-DOA5LR (you're welcome, Team Ninja) it seems I'm not going to be doing that this time around. So far I've only bought, like, one costume each for Tina and Lisa, oh and I bought Mai (I should probably get around to Momiji too soon, and I'll definitely get Rachel). I'd support TN the same way I did with DOA5 if I felt they deserved it, but even then I felt I was crazy being probably one of the handful of people who liked the DLC content enough to buy almost all of it (with the help of sales later on though). If they had any heart in making the DLC or costumes in general back with DOA5, I think that's definitely all gone now. They're phoning it in like crazy compared to DOA5. They went from taking annual fan-created costumes for Halloween in DOA5 to this basic witches set in DOA6 (which leaves the guys out too). Almost every set has been "uniforms with a theme", with each character only getting slight variations or even color swaps of the same costumes as eachother (and the inconsistency with the damage factor makes zero sense and reeks of laziness). Barely any induviduality expressed between characters anymore. But I'm stil trying to keep my fingers crossed that they'll at least release a classic costumes set some day and DOA++ music.

But that's fine, I guess, at least my wallet is happy, and there's always DoA5LR (they really should have made a final complete edition though, preferably for Switch). Last two updates didnt even have them put in more intro or win animations (which should have been there day 1 anyways)... in a lot of ways (not every way) this game still isnt even on par with vanilla DOA5 for me. I'm mostly playing it over 5LR because I really enjoy the new moves Tina and Lisa gained.

If any sets go on sale, depending on how cheap they go, then I'll consider buying more (the preorder set is the best one so far, thats the one I got my only bought Tina and Lisa costumes from). But even then, now there's a couple of chars I dont care to get any DLC for so I'd prefer a sale on induvidual costumes.

"Are costumes a higher priority to Team NINJA than gameplay?" - Well if they are then they're doing a pretty poor job of that too, lol. I dont know what happened to TN between DOA5LR and DOA6. You'd think the apparent success of DOA5's entire run (unless I'm mistaken), tournaments and DLC sales and all, would have encouraged them to take what they did with DOA5LR and go even bigger and better rather than start again from scratch and just do DOA5 all over again with slightly prettier graphics but not nearly as good.
Keep in mind that there were no costume contests for DOA5 (you're thinking of DOA5U, which released about a year later), along with fewer DLC costumes in general including no Halloween costumes for DOA5. DOA5 overall has fewer characters & costumes than DOA6 (24 for DOA5 & currently 29 for DOA6, albeit, some characters were added later), along with technically inferior visuals (DOA5's "realistic" stage aesthetic felt like a large step back from DOA4's stage aesthetic for instance). DOA6's movesets are technically more complete too compared to DOA5's, though not really significant. A lot of people attribute alot of positive stuff to "DOA5", which isn't really fair considering that 2 further paid installments released in the form of DOA5U & DOA5LR, whereas DOA6 is still only in its first year in comparison. DOA5 was pretty "meh" before DOA5U IMO.

Aside from the collaborative costumes in DOA5LR (such as the Senran Kagura or ArcSys costumes for example), most DOA5LR themed sets were pretty mediocre or terrible aside from maybe the Fighting Force set for instance. The $93-ish Season Passes and such started with DOA5LR (after a horrid run of "fetish" DLC from about February 2014 onwards for DOA5U) for many seasons and naturally KT would continue the trend with DOA6, because that's where DOA5U/DOA5LR & DOA6 make their money and serve as points for investors to invest in the DOA brand. My point is that KT/TN have been trying to push DOA's DLC fairly hard since DOA5U and it is no surprise that they would attempt the same in DOA6 due to it being the primary source of revenue from the series.

As for DOA6, the game was a huge misstep for the series and was WAY too half-assed at launch. Kudos to Team NINJA for trying to fix the game after launch, but unfortunately, a lot of the damage has already been done, thus showing why you should never release a game before it's ready. Makes me really despise KT at times...
 
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deathofaninja

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ALPHA-152
Yes, I agree. DOA5 vanilla was a very good game, but Ultimate upped the ante on everything and was IMO the best installment ever made for DOA on a mechanical level. I know some will disagree with this and prefer vanilla or Last Round, but I like competent ground games, and Ultimate felt the most complete.

The reason that costumes were better in DOA5 is simply individuality. Not all of it was great or anything, but with a sequel I think people expected to be blown away by the content DOA6 could offer.

Now it seems that no one is happy, but we are trying to support the game anyway despite this because we love the series, obviously, or we wouldn't be here. I'm not sure we will get an Ultimate version of DOA6 because they have already released a lot more content for this vanilla version than was released for DOA5 vanilla.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Yes, I agree. DOA5 vanilla was a very good game, but Ultimate upped the ante on everything and was IMO the best installment ever made for DOA on a mechanical level.

The reason that costumes were better in DOA5 is simply individuality. Not all of it was great or anything, but with a sequel I think people expected to be blown away by the content DOA6 could offer.

Now it seems that no one is happy, but we are trying to support the game anyway despite this because we love the series, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.
Hmm... I would say that costume individuality is probably about the same in DOA5 & DOA6. DOA6's costumes are underrated IMO. DOA5 didn't really have that many DLC costumes compared to DOA5U onwards, though DOA5U only had individuality in the first 3 months with the outstanding casual & legacy DLC, then KT/TN went fuck it in 2014 and released gravure videos along with shitty fetish DLC after fetish DLC for almost a year or so. It was atrocious. Even with DOA5LR, I only liked the Collab DLC, Halloween costumes and the Fighting Force set. Most DOA5LR themed sets were just as bad as DOA6's "themed" sets.
 
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deathofaninja

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Hmm... I would say that costume individuality is probably about the same in DOA5 & DOA6. DOA6's costumes are underrated IMO. DOA5 didn't really have that many DLC costumes compared to DOA5U onwards, though DOA5U only had individuality in the first 3 months with the outstanding casual & legacy DLC, then KT/TN went fuck it in 2014 and released gravure videos along with shitty fetish DLC after fetish DLC for almost a year or so. It was atrocious. Even with DOA5LR, I only liked the Collab DLC, Halloween costumes and the Fighting Force set. Most DOA5LR themed sets were just as bad as DOA6's "themed" sets.
No doubt I think that style is subjective, but you could at least factor in that the quality is not much different and the prices have inflated. The men's underwear set was a reduced bargain bin collection in DOA5, and in DOA6 those combined with the swimsuits were pricier.

The DOA6 price total is already over 1,000 dollars on Steam. Comparing it to Last Round's store page this early on seems a little cray to me.

I also think that Team NINJA has not exactly knocked out great color combinations, but I am trying to see your POV as I have bought all the costumes up until these Witches.

Think that at this point lowering prices on things would alleviate some players that have one foot out the door. It's kind of overwhelming to me that there are still $40 worth of revival packs combined with the $80 season pass is $120 in one season. The price of two brand new games.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Ayane
No doubt I think that style is subjective, but you could at least factor in that the quality is not much different and the prices have inflated. The men's underwear set was a reduced bargain bin collection in DOA5, and in DOA6 those combined with the swimsuits were pricier.

The DOA6 price total is already over 1,000 dollars on Steam. Comparing it to Last Round's store page this early on seems a little cray to me.

I also think that Team NINJA has not exactly knocked out great color combinations, but I am trying to see your POV as I have bought all the costumes up until these Witches.

Think that at this point lowering prices on things would alleviate some players that have one foot out the door. It's kind of overwhelming to me that there are still $40 worth of revival packs combined with the $80 season pass is $120 in one season. The price of two brand new games.
Yeah, definitely TN need to lower prices on the DLC, particularly the packs, bundles and Season Passes (TN/KT really, really need to get the SP prices down to $50 somehow). The individual costume DLC prices are fine for the most part aside from Mai's or Kula's costume DLC prices (still cheaper than buying a single DLC costume in SFV for instance...). The "Revival" DLC prices also need to be cut in half if they're not going to be a part of the SP's. $19.99 for non-SP DLC content is obnoxious and defeats the point of season passes. Especially if the content is specifically rehashed from DOA5.
 
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Kasumi-Phase-X

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Kasumi
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TJMangaFans
Even though we don't have fans creating them (which the contest was already moved to another month), the DOA gals definitely have some lovely choices for costumes. The best one is Bikini Top with Shorts (Ayane, Christie, Lisa, Mila, & Phase-4), and the ones with School Skirts & Mini Skirts are pretty cute designs.
 
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deathofaninja

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Taken from Matt Ponton and added to the story if you were wondering what the patch notes meant by "timing of damage"
Answer: The frame the damage is calculated. For Bass' case in Version 1.13, Team NINJA made it so when he does his air throw into a red barrel on 'Forbidden Fortune' that it actually does damage now. Before, you'd only get the 10 points of wall damage and none of the air throw itself. Bug still exists for his 1H on low kicks into the red barrels though.
 
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inochinagi

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NA
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Tina Armstrong
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inochinagi
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Alekian
Hey FoN, long time again, eh? (not since we randomly faced eachother in ranked matches around the time DOA6 launched) How's it going?

I should probably make it more clear somehow, but when I say DOA5 at times I mean DOA5's entire run up to LR (if I just mean strictly the first release I'll probably refer to it as vanilla DOA5). Seeing how we havent literally gone back in time with DOA6 (at least we shouldnt have), I think it's fair to see going from annual fan-made costume contests for Halloween to this witches uniform-set as a step back. I mean, as far as "uniforms with a theme" sets go, its not too bad and the costumes have differentiations between them but It's pretty much all we've been getting. The Digital Deluxe set is the only set I like so far. That said, compared to vanilla DOA5 (which had its problems but in hindsight was actually a high bar for the start of a new numbered game in a FG series, but DOA5U's release was peak DOA5 for me), this first release of DOA6 just hasnt been as enjoyable all around (the first year of DOA5 there was a lot more DLC I wanted and/or bought, plus the content on-disc was already better). The thing DOA5 had going for it was a lot of what it did was entirely new since it had been so long since DOA4 (also, Virtua Fighter characters, lol). DOA6 really does feel like DOA5 all over again with a few pros and cons, when it should have started its base with as much as what good was learned from DOA5's entire run rather than basically repeat it from scratch with better visuals. DOA5 had problems from day 1 too, but all the new pros outweighed the cons. Plus, it didnt help that the few new things TN decided to do with DOA6 just didnt work out (the coin system).

As much as I dont like gatcha games, I think TN has actually made DOA into a traditionally designed game that wants to be a gatcha game. TN already created the greatest FtP models ever for a fighting game, the problem is the DLC prices. I've finally tried a gatcha FtP game recently and was surprised that they made literally all the payed DLC unlockable through grinding long enough in the game (time varies depending on how lucky you are). Dish out the cash if you want them all now or work for them by playing every day to choose to unlock what few you can for free. I think DOA could do that, at least just for costumes, and encourage more people to keep playing and get online just for the promise of costumes alone, all the while increasign support for the game, even if you could argue the gameplay or even the quality of the costumes wouldnt be deserving of that level support (still would be better than probably any other gatcha game out there). But with increased support there could be increased feedback to improve everything (which would only matter as long as TN would listen). Then not only would they have the best FtP model but also the best...

Did I just seriously propose DOA become a gatcha game? Excuse me as I go lie down on the road...

Anyways, its probably too late for DOA6 to go that route now. In that scenario I'd buy the DLC I want for my mains as soon as they release and grind for every single other one even if it takes me forever, lol (10,000 matches online? fine). I'd probably still complain why Zack's alien costume and Tina's Blue DWA costume arent back yet but that dull set of Ninja uniforms are (I literally already bought this in DOA5, atleast give me a discount)... but I think I'd be enjoying DOA6 a lot more too, over all. And this is all focusing on the issue of costumes and single-player replayability, I havent even touched on my criticisms gameplay-wise.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Hey FoN, long time again, eh? (not since we randomly faced eachother in ranked matches around the time DOA6 launched) How's it going?

I should probably make it more clear somehow, but when I say DOA5 at times I mean DOA5's entire run up to LR (if I just mean strictly the first release I'll probably refer to it as vanilla DOA5). Seeing how we havent literally gone back in time with DOA6 (at least we shouldnt have), I think it's fair to see going from annual fan-made costume contests for Halloween to this witches uniform-set as a step back. I mean, as far as "uniforms with a theme" sets go, its not too bad and the costumes have differentiations between them but It's pretty much all we've been getting. The Digital Deluxe set is the only set I like so far. That said, compared to vanilla DOA5, this first release of DOA6 just hasnt been as enjoyable all around (the first year of DOA5 there was a lot more DLC I wanted and/or bought, plus the content on-disc was already better). The thing DOA5 had going for it was a lot of what it did was entirely new since it had been so long since DOA4. DOA6 really does feel like DOA5 all over again with a few pros and cons, when it should have started its base with as much as what good was learned from DOA5's entire run rather than basically repeat it from scratch with better visuals. DOA5 had problems from day 1 too, but all the new pros outweighed the cons. Plus, it didnt help that the few new things TN decided to do with DOA6 just didnt work out (the coin system).

As much as I dont like gatcha games, I think TN has actually made DOA into a traditionally designed game that wants to be a gatcha game. TN already created the greatest FtP models ever for a fighting game, the problem is the DLC prices. I've finally tried a gatcha FtP game recently and was surprised that they made literally all the payed DLC unlockable through grinding long enough in the game (time varies depending on how lucky you are). Dish out the cash if you want them all now or work for them by playing every day to choose to unlock what few you can for free. I think DOA could do that, at least just for costumes, and encourage more people to keep playing and get online just for the promise of costumes alone, all the while increasign support for the game, even if you could argue the gameplay or even the quality of the costumes wouldnt be deserving of that level support (still would be better than probably any other gatcha game out there). But with increased support there could be increased feedback to improve everything (which would only matter as long as TN would listen). Then not only would they have the best FtP model but also the best...

Did I just seriously propose DOA become a gatcha game? Excuse me as I go lie down on the road...

Anyways, its probably too late for DOA6 to go that route now. In that scenario I'd buy the DLC I want for my mains as soon as they release and grind for every single other one even if it takes me forever, lol (10,000 matches online? fine). I'd probably still complain why Zack's alien costume and Tina's Blue DWA costume arent back yet but those dull Ninja uniforms are... but I think I'd be enjoying DOA6 a lot more too, over all. And this is all focusing on the issue of costumes and single-player replayability, I havent even touched on my criticisms gameplay-wise.
DOA6's "run" is not complete yet, so it's a little difficult to directly compared DOA5's "whole run" to DOA6's. DOA5's first year was pretty mediocre and riddled with a lot of terrible marketing, albeit, similar to DOA6's marketing, because TN appears to have no idea how to market DOA properly. DOA5's DLC prior to DOA5U's launch wasn't really anything special; and to put things in perspective, the pre-order DLC for DOA5 were bikinis for the main female characters. Overall DOA5's launch was better than DOA6's, though only moreso due to the fuck-ups of DOA6's launch as opposed to DOA5 having an amazing launch or anything (DOA5 sold pretty poorly). However, we were lucky that KT & TN decided to release the considerably superior DOA5U version, which made DOA5 feel more meatier and complete. I will agree that DOA5 felt "fresher" than DOA6, due to the large DOA hiatus and the shift from Itagaki's direction.

Due to having to develop a new engine, there was little chance of DOA6 having as much content and being as feature-rich as DOA5LR, which had almost 2.5 years to be developed for after DOA5's initial release. To put things in perspective TTT2 had more content than T7, USF4 had more content than SFV, SCV had more characters & stages than SCVI, etc., etc. Lack of content isn't necessarily DOA6's issue per se; a lot of FG's this generation are fairly light on substantial content. DOA6's issue is that its development & release were terribly half-assed, its marketing has been abysmal and a portrait of "how not to promote your product", and a lot of development & design decisions come off as downright anti-consumer (Convoluted pre-order system, where you can't "get everything" with one purchase, having your $93 Season Pass ready Day One before lobbies were anywhere close to ready, no individual costume purchases on Western PS4's, an excruciatingly awful costume patten parts unlock system, relatively dumbed down gameplay, along with numerous embarrassing glitches and unoptimisations around the launch window frame).

However content-wise, barring the lack of Tag mode and lobbies not being ready at launch, DOA6 still had things like Versus, Ranked, Arcade, Time Attack, Survival, DOA Quest, Story Mode (yes, it's pretty bad at times, though DOA5's isn't much better in comparison), Free Training, a crapton of tutorials, Command Training, Combo Challenges, along with DOA Central features. Of course I'd like more offline single player content, though DOA6's offerings aren't really that horrible compared to the other 3D fighters. Compared to DOA5 (which lacked tutorials, combo challenges and an equivalent to DOA Central meaning that you had to listen to that awful rap song every time you hopped online), DOA6's offerings were decent. The lack of Tag mode is very unfortunate, because quite frankly, I suspect that DOA6's engine wouldn't handle it in its current form, and unfortunately was probably a source of a lot of casuals being put off by DOA6.

I'm pretty sure that a DOA6U will appear at some point in the future (which I highly hope would slate to be a launch title for the PS5 & Xbox Scarlet to capitalise on the launch hype), and we'll see how it turns out. On a different note, of course in hindsight it would've probably been better if TN just reused the Soft Engine from DOA5LR so that the team could've focused on making DOA6 as feature rich and complete as possible. But then people would whine that "DOA6" just looks the same as DOA5LR haha.
 
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inochinagi

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Tina Armstrong
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inochinagi
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Alekian
^^^ I wasnt trying to compare all of DOA5's run up til LR with DOA6 so far, sorry if it seemed that way. I was only saying how I think its reasonable that DOA6 should have started from a much better place compared to vanilla DOA5 after all the experience TN should have gained up until LR. And they did, actually... they learned to keep making overpriced SPs, lol. I mean, if they continued with the SPs then they could just as easily continue the tradition of fan-made costumes. But like you said, they did bring back a lot of great features and content that I had forgotten werent there for original DOA5's launch. And like you said, there we many factors that ensured DOA6 couldnt live up to what its potential was. Personally, I think that wouldnt have mattered either way since it seems its just about minimal effort for maximum profit now rather than putting their heart into revolutionizing the genre again (like the idea of Fighting Entertainment for DOA5), which you can argue whither they did or not and to what extent but they did try a lot of new things. I see no ambition and risk taking with DOA6 (and from no other fighting game series either), rather they just screwed up trying to recreate what they did with DOA5. Its just painful to see because I beleive this series has the greatest potential to truly revolutionize the genre for the first time since the 90s, through a natural progression of what DOA2-DOA4 did which they seem to have forgotten about (well, not entirely, but not nearly enough either). But of course, I'm hoping for a DOA6U too.


Even though we don't have fans creating them (which the contest was already moved to another month), the DOA gals definitely have some lovely choices for costumes.
Hmm? So they're still doing the fan-designed costumes for DOA6, just in a different month now? Well that's good at least. Which month now?

Hmm... I would say that costume individuality is probably about the same in DOA5 & DOA6. DOA6's costumes are underrated IMO. DOA5 didn't really have that many DLC costumes compared to DOA5U onwards, though DOA5U only had individuality in the first 3 months with the outstanding casual & legacy DLC, then KT/TN went fuck it in 2014 and released gravure videos along with shitty fetish DLC after fetish DLC for almost a year or so. It was atrocious. Even with DOA5LR, I only liked the Collab DLC, Halloween costumes and the Fighting Force set. Most DOA5LR themed sets were just as bad as DOA6's "themed" sets.
I admit my memory probably isnt 1:1 with the facts of how it was back in 2012/2013 but I remember liking a lot more costumes, on disc and unlockable (plus the DLC we did get), than I do in DOA6 now, on disc and DLC combined. For one thing, we didnt have to deal with every character having every costume coming with two color swap costumes for each costume. But yeah, over all most of the DLC sets werent so great and I agree with you on the ones that were really good, but like I've said, that was the first go around. I could buy into that once, but not all over again. The problem is that DOA6 is just pretty much doing the same thing again so far. I'll have to boot up my old vanilla DOA5 on a new account and I'll let you know if I more of an idiot than I thought, lol.

They still keep nerfing Marie Rose lmao
I'm from the school of "buff everyone to hell" but if there's anyone who I'd be glad to see trapped in low-tier hell and and then further continuously nerf darted into the ground... (shit, I promised myself I'd try not to irritate any potential MR fans)
 
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Kasumi-Phase-X

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Kasumi
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TJMangaFans
Hmm? So they're still doing the fan-designed costumes for DOA6, just in a different month now? Well that's good at least. Which month now?

"After the evaluation by the development team, the Winner and the Honorable mention works will be presented at the venue on November 23, 2019. The Winner's work will be distributed as DLC costumes in the coming months."
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
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Ayane
^^^ I wasnt trying to compare all of DOA5's run up til LR with DOA6 so far, sorry if it seemed that way. I was only saying how I think its reasonable that DOA6 should have started from a much better place compared to vanilla DOA5 after all the experience TN should have gained up until LR. And they did, actually... they learned to keep making overpriced SPs, lol. I mean, if they continued with the SPs then they could just as easily continue the tradition of fan-made costumes. But like you said, they did bring back a lot of great features and content that I had forgotten werent there for original DOA5's launch. And like you said, there we many factors that ensured DOA6 couldnt live up to what its potential was. Personally, I think that wouldnt have mattered either way since it seems its just about minimal effort for maximum profit now rather than putting their heart into revolutionizing the genre again (like the idea of Fighting Entertainment for DOA5), which you can argue whither they did or not and to what extent but they did try a lot of new things. I see no ambition and risk taking with DOA6 (and from no other fighting game series either), rather they just screwed up trying to recreate what they did with DOA5. Its just painful to see because I beleive this series has the greatest potential to truly revolutionize the genre for the first time since the 90s, through a natural progression of what DOA2-DOA4 did which they seem to have forgotten about (well, not entirely, but not nearly enough either). But of course, I'm hoping for a DOA6U too.




Hmm? So they're still doing the fan-designed costumes for DOA6, just in a different month now? Well that's good at least. Which month now?



I admit my memory probably isnt 1:1 with the facts of how it was back in 2012/2013 but I remember liking a lot more costumes, on disc and unlockable (plus the DLC we did get), than I do in DOA6 now, on disc and DLC combined. For one thing, we didnt have to deal with every character having every costume coming with two color swap costumes for each costume. But yeah, over all most of the DLC sets werent so great and I agree with you on the ones that were really good, but like I've said, that was the first go around. I could buy into that once, but not all over again. The problem is that DOA6 is just pretty much doing the same thing again so far. I'll have to boot up my old vanilla DOA5 on a new account and I'll let you know if I more of an idiot than I thought, lol.



I'm from the school of "buff everyone to hell" but if there's anyone who I'd be glad to see trapped in low-tier hell and and then further continuously nerf darted into the ground... (shit, I promised myself I'd try not to irritate any potential MR fans)
In a perfect world, yeah DOA6 should've started from a stronger position, but the reality is that game development is expensive and publishers need to justify their expenditures or risk losing investors. Yes, in today's society, companies are all about "minimal effort for maximum profit". Basically, Business 101. In terms of physical unit sales DOA5 didn't really do that well, though by the end of DOA5LR's lifespan, it achieved over 12 million Core Fighter downloads and a significant amount of DLC sales along the way. TN likely did not continue with the Halloween costumes because it's been over 2 years since the last Halloween DLC and because the costume contest would've needed to be planned months ago while TN/KT were both trying to figure out how to "fix" DOA6 along with internally planning out DOA6's future direction and support. DOA5/DOA5U's first costume contest commenced in March 2014, approximately 1.5 years after DOA5's initial launch. The costumes from that contest did not get released until February 2015 within DOA5LR.

I don't really think it's fair to DOA6 for people to criticise the "colour swaps" so much as if their existence is some sort of negative point. In terms of physical costumes, DOA6 is still pretty similar in quantity to DOA5, though when you factor in that DOA5 had recolours such as Ayane's C3 & C5, or things like Ayane's C4 & C6 which were basically the same outfit, but C6 didn't have the jacket, etc., DOA6's overall costume selection is at least slightly superior. Though, yeah, the males get the short end of the stick in both DOA6 & DOA5 (I don't think the males have ever debuted with more than 3 or 4 costumes in a vanilla DOA game IIRC, though I could be mistaken), but KT/TN have always under-prioritised the males because the reality is that they're not as popular and don't sell as much (despite the reasons being basically self-inflicted over the years...).

As for "revolutionizing" the genre, the FG hasn't been "revolutionary" since, like generation 6 (DC, PS2, GC, XB era). It's stuck in this rout where the focus is either on maintaining tradition, which Brute referred to aptly as "Nostalgic Retardation", or dumbing down the games in a vain attempt to try and court newcomers, whereas the lack of innovation and reduction in offline content has been reducing FG's potential growth.
 

inochinagi

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Tina Armstrong
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inochinagi
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Alekian
I've read that DOA5 has sold more than 1.5 million physical copies across all releases combined, but I dont know how much of that is strictly the original release, but they did say that the original game sold more than 500K in its first month. Whatever way they've gone about getting success and making their profit, I had just assumed that the more money TN was making would mean bigger budgets for more ambitious games. But then there's the fact that TN has also become a very busy developer outside of just their Ninja games, such as with Ni-Oh... so I guess you could maybe say their ambition has been spread out in a different way now.


"After the evaluation by the development team, the Winner and the Honorable mention works will be presented at the venue on November 23, 2019. The Winner's work will be distributed as DLC costumes in the coming months."
Ah, that should be good. I guess it's actually better that its not an October "Halloween" thing anymore since now every costume doesnt have to be related to that theme, so fans have less limitations on what they can come up with.
 
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inochinagi

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Tina Armstrong
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inochinagi
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As for "revolutionizing" the genre, the FG hasn't been "revolutionary" since, like generation 6 (DC, PS2, GC, XB era). It's stuck in this rout where the focus is either on maintaining tradition, which Brute referred to aptly as "Nostalgic Retardation", or dumbing down the games in a vain attempt to try and court newcomers, whereas the lack of innovation and reduction in offline content has been reducing FG's potential growth.
I'd say fighting games havent changed since the late 90s. Before 2000 we had VF3 (changed everything), DOA2, Tekken 4 following them in the early 2000s before going backwards again with 5 (I dont think the Tekken series has ever really been innovative, always a follower, but I love the series anyways), Power Stone, Smash Bros 64, and Soul Calibur (set the standard for weapon-based 3D and single player content). Similarly in 2D we havent realy seen anything new since parrying in SF3TS and MotWs and when air combos became a thing with the Capcom vs series and Guilty Gear. Everything played now is just all those games in one way or another, remixing and hybridizing with eachother (3D games getting super metres) and taking steps back even. The only reason FGs have seen a resurgence is because of SF4 becoming huge thanks to nothing for years after SF3TS, a buildup of hype of its return, and the rise of esports and evo. Which is all great, I'm not saying its not, I love FGs even as they are, but if there isnt another leap forward we might go back to the drought years again. I personally want to be really wowed again too.

IMO, TN should have not seen DOA's core gameplay as something that needed changing with comeback gimmicks and metres or getting into lengthy combos and jugglefests like Tekken. I would say the real goldmine (figuretively speaking, at least) in innovation for DOA is in stage design. Say what you will about gameplay steping backwards from 3.1 to 4, but the stage design that was progressively getting more amazing since DOA2 (which took what VF3TB did and ran with it for multiple games rather than go backward) was at its peak with DOA4. DOA5 did some cool new interesting stage gimmicks but it took a step back in a lot of ways. With today's tech that allows for massive open worlds I dont think it would be a stretch to expect much larger stages could be possible in 3D fighting games. Idealy, for me, the perfect DOA right now would be gameplay like DOA3.1's but with much more moves for everyone (as we've seen get added since then with each game) and the biggest stages in the series, with slopes and stairs and things to throw people into, through, and out of and multiple layers to seamlessly transition between and hazards to take advantage of, which would lead to a game that feels the most like real street fighting than any before it (except, you know, with ninjas and ninpo).


Anyways, that was what I thought could be possible after DOA5LR in the last gen of consoles and moving on to the current gen of consoles with PS4 and Xbox One, especially with the larger budget they should have got thanks to the success of the DoA5s. Even now, I admit what I'm more excited for out of what we know is coming down the pipeline is the new stage (followed by Rachel, followed by the fan-created costumes). Even if I believe TN is only doing a fraction of what it could be doing with stages, the new stage interactions and the new moves are the things I enjoy most from DOA6. Stages still feel cramped compared to stages from DOA2 to DOA4, but I really like Miyabi, Unforgettable, Lost Paradise, and Forbidden Fortune for what they do offer. The interactive crowds in Throwdown and Chinese Fortune are cool too.

As for bringing in new players, just focus on incentivizing them to learn how to play the game in its best form rather than throw in OP or "beginner characters" or dumbing things down for them. I dont get why TN does great things on one hand like making a great F2P model to get anyone who's even mildly interested to play, gives them all the tools to learn, but then doesnt capitalize on that by incentivizing to keep them playing or compromises the gameplay in some way. I just played a 14 year old newbie online the other day that asked me how to gitgud and I told them to play the tutorials and combo missions if they hadent (they hadnt, but said they would now), not that I'm someone who anyone should be asking advice from in the first place...
 
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