The point is to tell you that your situation is not the same as what I explained earlier, lol. You need to start dropping the attitude when in a discussion.
System What would make LR better than Ultimate?
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The point is to tell you that your situation is not the same as what I explained earlier, lol. You need to start dropping the attitude when in a discussion.
EnvyDesyre
Member
Or you can just ignore the question entirely & call me out for having a type of manner you don't approve of. You didn't give the answer I was looking for. Are you telling me how to play? Because I can use a character however I want, if I'm successful. I get it, those options aren't situational. But like I said, they work for me.
Just don't bother with it anymore... no point.
I gave you the answer, you just continue choosing to be rattled up because you happen to speak to someone that doesn't agree with your opinion and falsified information.
EnvyDesyre
Member
Oh yeah, it's falsified..uh-huh..even though people were agreeing with the majority of my posts, which we're valid. And no you didn't. Clearly, I asked you a simple question in regards to playing my character but you wanna give short responses (which aren't even the answers) to avoid further discussion. I couldn't care less about what anyone on this thread thinks of me. Get over it & answer the question. I'm wasting my time here anyway.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Guys.
A post was made where Hayate's oki options were detailed. Within that post there was an oki situation that was not a guaranteed oki situation. Right now we are discussing the oki of DOA 5U and in his attempt to explain why he thinks it is solid Hajin provided what he considers "True Oki" situations in the sense that if your opponent does not tech roll they are eating the force tech and you will never get hit by a wake up kick unless you chose not to use your oki setup. Hajin is saying that these "True Oki" situations are what the oki in DOA 5U is about and they exist for the cast.
If you guys wanted to know what a "True Oki" situation entailed all you had to do was ask "Well if the Hayate oki situation is "falsified" then explain exactly what is a real oki situation in DOA5U and how do you go about achieving that?" if you felt the idea behind it wasn't clear enough in Hajin's paragraph about Ayane's oki.
Come on guys this isn't hard to do. It's basic conversation skills. @oMASTER LEGENDo please don't post things on the thread that are not relevant; We have enough of that nonsense on this site as is.
A post was made where Hayate's oki options were detailed. Within that post there was an oki situation that was not a guaranteed oki situation. Right now we are discussing the oki of DOA 5U and in his attempt to explain why he thinks it is solid Hajin provided what he considers "True Oki" situations in the sense that if your opponent does not tech roll they are eating the force tech and you will never get hit by a wake up kick unless you chose not to use your oki setup. Hajin is saying that these "True Oki" situations are what the oki in DOA 5U is about and they exist for the cast.
If you guys wanted to know what a "True Oki" situation entailed all you had to do was ask "Well if the Hayate oki situation is "falsified" then explain exactly what is a real oki situation in DOA5U and how do you go about achieving that?" if you felt the idea behind it wasn't clear enough in Hajin's paragraph about Ayane's oki.
Come on guys this isn't hard to do. It's basic conversation skills. @oMASTER LEGENDo please don't post things on the thread that are not relevant; We have enough of that nonsense on this site as is.
Exactly what I said in my earlier post.
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
While I think HajinShinobi has an attitude sometimes, I have to agree with him on this one. He tried to explain the ground game in pretty good detail (good enough for any human being to understand) and all he gets is shit about how it wasn't the right answer or not the answer the other person is looking for.
I think it would just be better if all these posts get deleted because this is obviously not working.
I think it would just be better if all these posts get deleted because this is obviously not working.
EnvyDesyre
Member
I'll say one last thing before I stop posting because it's obviously bringing controversy which is why I don't share my opinions. I understand people will not agree with me & I don't particularly care for that but the fact discussions lead to nowhere is the sheer reason I don't get into debates, so I'm done.
I know how the ground game works. I was trying to tell him for like the 3rd time. And how can it be falsified when clearly you mentioned he said a true oki situation is in the sense that when your opponent does not tech roll they are eating the force tech and you will never get hit by a wake up kick unless you chose not to use your oki setup? Helloo I get that. He's also stated his Ayane situation eliminates the wakeup kick but Hayate's PP2K does not. I found that his Wind Dash K eliminates it & if the player knocked down goes for a wakeup kick they'll still get hit. So it'll be impossible. Even if the person mashes they'll tech roll instead. So I believe PP2K/PP2K~6P+K can be a real oki situation midscreen while Wind Dash K eliminates the wakeup kick. You can easily test this out in practice mode..
I know how the ground game works. I was trying to tell him for like the 3rd time. And how can it be falsified when clearly you mentioned he said a true oki situation is in the sense that when your opponent does not tech roll they are eating the force tech and you will never get hit by a wake up kick unless you chose not to use your oki setup? Helloo I get that. He's also stated his Ayane situation eliminates the wakeup kick but Hayate's PP2K does not. I found that his Wind Dash K eliminates it & if the player knocked down goes for a wakeup kick they'll still get hit. So it'll be impossible. Even if the person mashes they'll tech roll instead. So I believe PP2K/PP2K~6P+K can be a real oki situation midscreen while Wind Dash K eliminates the wakeup kick. You can easily test this out in practice mode..
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that sounded casual be careful now.
Yurlungur
Well-Known Member
that sounded casual be careful now.
still waiting for rondo to sparkle and evade throws and high and mid kicks, kappa
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Yeah this is a "true oki" situation then. PP2K by itself though while it CAN force tech after some testing at the walls I found that there is an extremely small window that allows the opponent to wakeup kick though it could have just been the way I timed PP2K. Still it's very tight so I would say this is good oki for Hayate.
Situations like this that give the opponent a small window to WU kick support the notion even more that the invincibility needs to be toned down a bit because then they would become "true oki" situations. Toning down the invincibility would add more to the ones that already exist.
Smh, guys, don't agitate the damn thread. Leave the drama alone. It's a discussion. This is also one of the reasons why I don't care to publicly discuss my views or come beyond character threads, tournament threads, & mechanic threads. Because the majority of them go to shit. Plus, it turns into a personal issue between players when it shouldn't even go that far. So please, stop the nonsense. Stay on topic. If you can't add onto the discussion keeping it healthy, frankly you just need to either listen (read) or GTFOH. No offense, it's just that simple. Don't ruin the thread for everybody who adds good conversation to it (Nereus, Envy, Tenryuga, Uncle Kitchener, Hajin, etc). Come on now, let's keep it cool.
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David Gregg
Well-Known Member
Get The F*** Outta Here
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
I think it is fair to compare the different Oki games to each other. Most fighting games follow the same rules upon knocking someone down. It is no longer your turn and forcing something or even trying something intelligently could result in you getting killed.
DOA on the other hand, well with DOA5U, there is an imbalance here. Some characters can force the traditional style of Oki. Rig is a really good example of that, when he is played right his opponents should jump for joy if they ever get the chance to do a wake up kick. From his throws to some of his juggles, it is either tech up or forced up. He does not have sacrifice damage for this either, like some characters (i.e. Pai). Then there are some characters who just get a knockdown and it is time to play the guessing game wholeheartedly (i.e. Jann Lee or Kasumi). Yes, next to a wall both of those characters have their dirt, mid floor lol.
From playing SF on-and-off since it has came out, and I am currently playing it as a main game now. I can assure you the Oki game there is nothing like what is being done in DOA. Hard knockdowns are bad in SF but just a knockdown alone is an issue. Hard knockdowns are good in DOA they give the feeling of the Oki in SF but it is not be confused with being just as good.
From playing VF, for like a year, getting knocked down in that game is a problem. 1st off ; the wake up kick is MINUS on hit and does not have a good deal of push-back on block, which is what it should be in DOA. That is if you get the get the chance to do one. If a wake kick is blocked in that game, the defender's turn is over, again.
A quick scenario of offline play in DOA5U, true story. I'm playing Eliot and I block a mid wake up kick from Christie. I say, "Hey it's my turn she is at MINUS 6, time to mount my offense." Boy, was I wrong. The push-back it has allowed Christie to chuck it out, get it blocked, and proceed to hit the buttons for free or at least in that match up it does. That is not happening in VF with those characters.
I do not like playing Tekken but the gaming team I am on, all of those guys play it. Being Knocked down is brutal to watch especially with a miss-guess on the defender's part they usually lead to death or half life juggles. I honestly do not see too many wake up options coming from a knock down and that is probably the reason.
DOA loosely follows that rule those 3 games have. At the very least the wake up kicks need to be minus on hit, enough minus where a heavy can safely apply pressure if they choose to do so. On block the mid wake up would have to drop down to being minus 5, and the push-back should be decreased. A guard stun would nice for both of the kicks. I think that would be asking way too much at that point.
This is the only fighting game where I fear knocking someone down without doing a shit-ton of damage before I do it, except when I see Alpha.
I know DOA is a different game, save those explanations, I have been doing this for a long time now. I just want to be cut a fucking break in situations where it should be my turn if I knock someone down no matter the type of knockdown. There should be no reason Christie can setup a 2 hit CB from landing a CH wake up kick. Even if you hold the mid kick on Hi Counter it will not do the damage or potential damage she can do if her life is at 50% or below. Most characters have dumb situations they can try after a CH wake up kick but that is the dumbest to me. With this paragraph alone, some of you guys actually believe the Oki game in DOA is just as significant as the Oki in SF? The only character I know of in SF that is dumb after you knock them down is Seth.
I like DOA but the wake up game needs to be fixed if the force techs will not be spread out across the entire cast like it was is 4 or in DOA5. I am not asking to completely obliterate my opponents for guessing wrong on wake up but I need them to feel it when or if they decide to do some silly shit upon waking up. Decreasing the health bar from 300 could also help that.
Please do not tell me to hold the wake up kicks to prevent things. I know that is what the hold is there for but since a meta game can be applied to EVERYTHING in this game, it is not all that wise to do that consistently. Which is why damn near all players block them or attempt to beat them out/whiff punish rather than opting to hold most of the time.
There was quite a bit that I read in here, it is a decent discussion. This is just my 2 cents on the Oki game comparison and what I would like seeing done to the up coming mechanics and health bar.
DOA on the other hand, well with DOA5U, there is an imbalance here. Some characters can force the traditional style of Oki. Rig is a really good example of that, when he is played right his opponents should jump for joy if they ever get the chance to do a wake up kick. From his throws to some of his juggles, it is either tech up or forced up. He does not have sacrifice damage for this either, like some characters (i.e. Pai). Then there are some characters who just get a knockdown and it is time to play the guessing game wholeheartedly (i.e. Jann Lee or Kasumi). Yes, next to a wall both of those characters have their dirt, mid floor lol.
From playing SF on-and-off since it has came out, and I am currently playing it as a main game now. I can assure you the Oki game there is nothing like what is being done in DOA. Hard knockdowns are bad in SF but just a knockdown alone is an issue. Hard knockdowns are good in DOA they give the feeling of the Oki in SF but it is not be confused with being just as good.
From playing VF, for like a year, getting knocked down in that game is a problem. 1st off ; the wake up kick is MINUS on hit and does not have a good deal of push-back on block, which is what it should be in DOA. That is if you get the get the chance to do one. If a wake kick is blocked in that game, the defender's turn is over, again.
A quick scenario of offline play in DOA5U, true story. I'm playing Eliot and I block a mid wake up kick from Christie. I say, "Hey it's my turn she is at MINUS 6, time to mount my offense." Boy, was I wrong. The push-back it has allowed Christie to chuck it out, get it blocked, and proceed to hit the buttons for free or at least in that match up it does. That is not happening in VF with those characters.
I do not like playing Tekken but the gaming team I am on, all of those guys play it. Being Knocked down is brutal to watch especially with a miss-guess on the defender's part they usually lead to death or half life juggles. I honestly do not see too many wake up options coming from a knock down and that is probably the reason.
DOA loosely follows that rule those 3 games have. At the very least the wake up kicks need to be minus on hit, enough minus where a heavy can safely apply pressure if they choose to do so. On block the mid wake up would have to drop down to being minus 5, and the push-back should be decreased. A guard stun would nice for both of the kicks. I think that would be asking way too much at that point.
This is the only fighting game where I fear knocking someone down without doing a shit-ton of damage before I do it, except when I see Alpha.
I know DOA is a different game, save those explanations, I have been doing this for a long time now. I just want to be cut a fucking break in situations where it should be my turn if I knock someone down no matter the type of knockdown. There should be no reason Christie can setup a 2 hit CB from landing a CH wake up kick. Even if you hold the mid kick on Hi Counter it will not do the damage or potential damage she can do if her life is at 50% or below. Most characters have dumb situations they can try after a CH wake up kick but that is the dumbest to me. With this paragraph alone, some of you guys actually believe the Oki game in DOA is just as significant as the Oki in SF? The only character I know of in SF that is dumb after you knock them down is Seth.
I like DOA but the wake up game needs to be fixed if the force techs will not be spread out across the entire cast like it was is 4 or in DOA5. I am not asking to completely obliterate my opponents for guessing wrong on wake up but I need them to feel it when or if they decide to do some silly shit upon waking up. Decreasing the health bar from 300 could also help that.
Please do not tell me to hold the wake up kicks to prevent things. I know that is what the hold is there for but since a meta game can be applied to EVERYTHING in this game, it is not all that wise to do that consistently. Which is why damn near all players block them or attempt to beat them out/whiff punish rather than opting to hold most of the time.
There was quite a bit that I read in here, it is a decent discussion. This is just my 2 cents on the Oki game comparison and what I would like seeing done to the up coming mechanics and health bar.
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
along with the ground game sidestepping needs an overhaul too. TN needs to remove the auto tracking property of strings and in return every character should have at least one mid tracking move that causes a deep stun on CH.
on that note fix marie roses bs command sidestep it actually avoids tracking moves and has no risks at all with high reward. crushes lows, avoids all auto tracking strings, avoids true tracking moves, can't be counter thrown during it since shes air born, and by the chance you happen to actually hit her out of it all it does is knock her down and reset the situation. they need to make it where if you hit her it causes some sort of refloat property that gives time to combo off of the hit and also people with air grabs should be able to grab her out of the air during it since shes considered airborne
on that note fix marie roses bs command sidestep it actually avoids tracking moves and has no risks at all with high reward. crushes lows, avoids all auto tracking strings, avoids true tracking moves, can't be counter thrown during it since shes air born, and by the chance you happen to actually hit her out of it all it does is knock her down and reset the situation. they need to make it where if you hit her it causes some sort of refloat property that gives time to combo off of the hit and also people with air grabs should be able to grab her out of the air during it since shes considered airborne
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