Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
who is the best Zack player?
Community Save Yourself
- Thread starter Chris Harris
- Start date
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Of DOA 5? I really don't know. We haven't had a Zack make any real splash yet.
In DOA 4 days we had quite a few, though it took them a while to make their appearance. It was a tossup somewhere between Highguy and Hatrify, most likely.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
1. You just dissed on my strategy guide. That was a bit brass. See? I can still do it.
2. Lili has been very solid in every Tekken game up to TTT2. I haven't played enough TTT2 to know where she stands in that game, but she has been very, very solid in the past.
3. We put out info and communicate just like any other community. The difference is that other fighting game communities don't have to make an argument as to why online wins don't mean anything. They don't have to convince people to get off of their couches and play in a tournament. They don't have random scrubs acting like they're the king of the world because they can spam slow, low attacks, that stun on NH in lag. They don't have a developer who nerfs things based on a community that would rather win because they guessed right instead of winning because they outplayed their opponent.
Murakame
Active Member
I'm baffled as to how the thread went from a greatly written plea from a player to discussing who the best Zack player is lol. Anyway those of you who are "online players" please read and understand what Chris is trying to say. Nobody is insulting you. Nobody is saying that YOU the player is irrelevant. What you have to understand is that you have no business talking about buffs and nerfs if your only experience is playing online where the game is flawed to an extreme degree. Everything is plus on block and guaranteed punishment does not exist. You are taking a risk everytime you hit that 5 or 6T. Lag spikes murder combos and setups. They make characters who are unsafe as fuck become VF characters. There is no such thing as holding or blocking on reaction online. There is only guessing. If the game were to be modified to accommodate those horrid conditions it would become terrible just like Helena smdh. At best any information that comes from such an environment is theory not facts. You guys need to accept the reality that if you want to play the legitimate version of the game you spent 60 bucks on you have to get off that couch or bed and go somewhere. It would also help if some of you took the time to actually learn the game. I'm not going to act like I'm some DOA genius because I'm not but I know and have seen enough to say that too many people get their asses handed to them and cry for nerfs and other things when it is their own damn fault they were defeated. And that goes for all fighting games.
Also please stop with the "If you want to say I don't matter then why should I go out to tournaments!?" or "I don't want to go to tournaments because of people like you!" That excuse gets thrown out way too often in this community. How about you go to play the game you claim to love? To play it in it's best form and to meet and befriend others in the process? If one person you have labelled "unpleasant" is supposed to be an excuse to not go somewhere it is an extremely lazy and poor excuse. Let's be honest not everybody you meet is going to be a nice person. There are dickheads everywhere but there are just as many people worth someone's time. People will understand if you don't have the time, money or if tournaments simply are not a priority but come on. "I don't want to go to a tournament because this guy being a dick!" Are you all serious right now? LMAO!
Also please stop with the "If you want to say I don't matter then why should I go out to tournaments!?" or "I don't want to go to tournaments because of people like you!" That excuse gets thrown out way too often in this community. How about you go to play the game you claim to love? To play it in it's best form and to meet and befriend others in the process? If one person you have labelled "unpleasant" is supposed to be an excuse to not go somewhere it is an extremely lazy and poor excuse. Let's be honest not everybody you meet is going to be a nice person. There are dickheads everywhere but there are just as many people worth someone's time. People will understand if you don't have the time, money or if tournaments simply are not a priority but come on. "I don't want to go to a tournament because this guy being a dick!" Are you all serious right now? LMAO!
You're ~30 min drive for me. Can even take the Light rail if you want. We can meet up at Xanadu on Wednesday nights via the bus route or your parents dropping you off/taking you home. Heck, if the parents are up to it and maybe after we show the good intentions they'll let you come down to a tournament in VA or PA with me and some others to have some fun and play the game.
There are always options, you just have to keep your eyes open. I just gave you four.
You're looking for a "community problem"? Look here.
You know one of the biggest properties of a community that has the potential to grow? An ability handle dissension with some degree of grace, which allows for a broader group of people to exist in the same space. You know what that looks like? A witch hunt.
My personal opinion on the online/offline argument is, for the most part, moot. I could care less about statements of self-proclaimed quality talk, tend to look towards the offline events for my personal opinions about that, and believe firmly that an intelligent game developer should be able to figure out exactly what are or are not the actual problems and are able to figure out the context within which some complaints take place. (And if they do not, that's on them and not the complaining players)
But seeking out a specific group of players who are in no way tied to the leadership decisions or to the direct development process and blaming them? Gunshot to foot moment. It makes selling offline events actively harder in process, too. How can we even begin to tell people we welcome them offline with a straight face? It sounds like we just need them to show up so we can prove a point.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Seriously, I would kill to live that close to so many good players.
DriftSlave
Active Member
She's still very solid, they just got rid of the online lag tactics and gave her stuff new strings that aren't garbage.
Not referring to Drift Slave's comment. I just saw a few comments within the thread that's completely rhetorical to what Chris is trying to say so let me rephrase this:
Folks please read what Chris is trying to say & stop making him out to be an asshole! He's not saying ppl are better than 1 another. That's another problem that we have within the community besides the fighting among ourselves. Nobody takes the time & read & even try to understand what people are saying. Then when you're corrected by somebody then you make it like somebody's gaining up on you. Then you go to the headlines & put stuff like "DOA community is Balls" or "Community could do better, but too many assholes". Come on now! I'm not out to offend anyone but please stop acting babies about the situation.
He's just saying that people are not seeing the problems in the game because you're thinking about how the game is played online & not offline.
Edit: Here's a perfect example. Hayate's 236T 7K is guaranteed, but online sometimes you do 236T & it gets blocked. Want another? Ayane's 3H+K guarantees a BT 4K as a follow up. Sometimes it gets blocked & people are able to attack online. Those are some of the examples of how random online is.
Folks please read what Chris is trying to say & stop making him out to be an asshole! He's not saying ppl are better than 1 another. That's another problem that we have within the community besides the fighting among ourselves. Nobody takes the time & read & even try to understand what people are saying. Then when you're corrected by somebody then you make it like somebody's gaining up on you. Then you go to the headlines & put stuff like "DOA community is Balls" or "Community could do better, but too many assholes". Come on now! I'm not out to offend anyone but please stop acting babies about the situation.
He's just saying that people are not seeing the problems in the game because you're thinking about how the game is played online & not offline.
Edit: Here's a perfect example. Hayate's 236T 7K is guaranteed, but online sometimes you do 236T & it gets blocked. Want another? Ayane's 3H+K guarantees a BT 4K as a follow up. Sometimes it gets blocked & people are able to attack online. Those are some of the examples of how random online is.
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
It's sad honestly that I'm made out to be some mean person when in reality I am pretty nice and have done a lot of character write ups for this community just to help them learn some characters.
Really wish people would critically think more.
Really wish people would critically think more.
Honestly, this all may be true. It's also utterly irrelevant to the fact that the basic topic came in seeking out an attack on a group of people who might dare to disagree with you, and then pounced on the first person who dared use that evil word of the devil ("online!!!!!!!!") without a strong attempt to actually engage it. (And I'm pretty ambivalent over what was being argued about, honestly. But certainly not about how it was argued) That kind of attitude coming in will never be persuasive, will never actually change the minds of those who disagree with you, and basically forces people like me who don't really tolerate it to throw stones back.
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
It was no attitude. No stones were thrown at ANY group of players but how our "majority" have so much control over something that they don't participate in. Then to take it to the next level not only do they have so much control they pretend that everything they do/say is gold. They never once thought they were wrong and that they matter the most when it has nothing to do with that.
The fact of the matter is that what offline players have to put up with in this community is ridiculous compared to any other community. This is normally not even a debate but because people normally want to play offline.
I literally only said that asking for balance patches based on online play is useless because the game isn't MEANT to be played online competitively. Online is sparring, trying, practicing, messing around, etc it's not the world of this means a lot so I need to step up in the clutch world. If that is all you have I feel sorry for you because you will never get to play the game in the way it was meant to be played. However that shouldn't mean that a game is made to cater to play in a way it's not supposed to be played in general.
Basically the sooner the online guys comes to terms with online is not the way to go the sooner this community can begin to flourish. That's not me being an ass or rude but the reality of the situation. All the guys (and I do mean all) the guys that travel to offline events play ONLINE but the main difference is we understand the difference and don't argue about what an online tactic is because we know.
Except these are mostly straw men, because the only people who could give that control in context is TN, who are accountable for their decisions. People who boast online are cheap in any community; easy to come by, easy to ignore.
More problematic is when I can directly pull a statement (and it's there) saying "Aha! I knew I'd find those that represent my opposition", which came directly at the forefront of a rather long post which almost was a total non sequitur to the post it responded to. Infinitely more dangerous.
Look, it's not that I disagree with you. Heck as far as "balance shouldn't be determined by online play" goes, I don't actually think anyone here actually disagrees with you! (The post in question merely said that online play is a consideration in terms of how people feel about the game and that those people shouldn't be ignored en masse, but really wasn't actually saying balance should cater to online players at all.)
The problem is, there is little to no evidence the patch was made in regard to online players. The contingent of players who complained about characters that got nerfed actually spread the board from online to offline; they weren't a monolithic "other". (We had people doing commentary in major tournaments who all but begged for specific characters to get nerfed; what were we expecting?)
But stones absolutely were thrown. They were thrown pretty directly at someone who wasn't even making the argument that they were being put up to! If our standards of tolerance are such that someone whose argument might have some genetic trace of another argument you don't like gets jumped... that's a real problem.
vINv
Active Member
I honestly cannot belive u just wrote that i freinds with sonkengpo3 2nd best leo in the usa u tube him any way hes friends with the best li li player in the country no one cares that sweep is gone it still launches on counter via high crush her other tools are her ff 3 launch that transition they gave her totally pointles and very interuptble u should look at her frames and options before making such a post (played li li online and offline for 3yrs)
Nightpup
Well-Known Member
I'd love to take you up on that offer! I'll ask my folks about it, though they'll probably seem incredibly skeptical. I'm ... kind of sheltered, haha.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Who is the best Lili player in the country? Back in T6 I'd say that was probably Kane, but I don't know if he's still playing Lili in TTT2.