IGN's 12 Days of DOA5

[DrDogg]

You wouldn't be playing DOA4 - just because you cannot string together several unholdable stuns doesn't mean every other significant change to the system is invalidated. This is not DOA4, and it shouldn't be any other fighter where one mistake means a guaranteed combo all the time, either.

This is DOA5, nothing more or less.

Let me clarify. The main complaint with DOA4 is that the game is a bunch of situations in which you're forced to make a guess. Other fighting games have similar situations, but the difference is that guessing is an option. You can win without guessing if you play smart, stay safe, etc. In DOA4 it's almost impossible to stay safe because hardly any attacks are actually safe.

DOA5 was looking good because while safety was still an issue, at least when you got a stun, you could capitalize on it without much of the guessing. Unfortunately, things are moving away from that direction right now, and it's tough to say if they'll be coming back around or not.

I don't want to play a game that has a number of forced guessing scenarios like DOA4, and right now that's how DOA5 plays for quite a few characters. If that's what you want, that's great. But it's not what I want out of DOA5 and there are more than a few people who share my opinion.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Yet from what I understand (I'm no expert - simply going off of what I've heard) they are bringing back parts from the older Ultimate versions that people enjoyed, such as guaranteed hits off of walls, unholdable stuns, etc. Safety can be improved, but I don't see how guessing scenarios are much different now than they were in previous installments (prior to 4).

If you can clarify on that part, then perhaps I'll see your point, but if you just dislike the fact that not all combos are guaranteed (AKA there is a factor of uncertainty) then what would make DOA different than other fighters?

 

[DrDogg]

Yet from what I understand (I'm no expert - simply going off of what I've heard) they are bringing back parts from the older Ultimate versions that people enjoyed, such as guaranteed hits off of walls, unholdable stuns, etc. Safety can be improved, but I don't see how guessing scenarios are much different now than they were in previous installments (prior to 4).

The wall hits are nice, but I have to get my opponent to the wall first. Also, as you can see with Mariposa, having sit-down stuns, limbo stuns and all the other unholdable stuns don't matter if it's difficult to make use of them. With many characters Critical Burst doesn't even matter because you can't hit it until the 4th or 5th attack. This wasn't the case at E3.

The guessing has always been in DOA aside from maybe 3.1 (I haven't played it so I can't say). The game revolves around delayed strings and free-canceling as a false sense of safety. This enhances the guessing game and forces you to either eat unbreakable throws or guess your way out of the situation. It's one of the big reasons why it doesn't get seen much from a competitive stand point.

If you can clarify on that part, then perhaps I'll see your point, but if you just dislike the fact that not all combos are guaranteed (AKA there is a factor of uncertainty) then what would make DOA different than other fighters?

Characters, stages, movement, attacks, the universal ability to counter (outside of stun)... you know, the things that make Tekken, Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter different. They all have guaranteed combos if you mess up (or force your opponent to mess up), but they play nothing alike.

 

[Codemaster92163]

But much of what you said is my point exactly. I get that DOA has more guessing than the other fighters, but that's been in the game since its first installation practically. It's understandable wishing to make counters less important, but what I don't get is people hoping to see them become an insignificant part of the game.

If an opponent only had to string together sit down stuns time after time, counters would rarely have to be used and we'd see the same old combos pop up over and over. Having the ability to use maybe a few sit-down stuns (or any other unholdable stun) in a combo, spaced between with some normal attacks, still makes counters less effective but important.

They've already upped the damage on throws and reduce the damage of counters, increased their recovery frames and reduced their activation frames. In that sense alone, even IF you cannot lock your foe in a slurry of stuns, it is hardly comparable to DOA4 in terms of where you, the attacker, sits. It is still comparable to older DOA games, though, and I think that's how it should remain. It's never enjoyable seeing a franchise stray really far from its roots, so I think DOA5 is in a nice spot right now.

I say nice, not perfect. There are tweaks that can be made, but I think counters have been dealt with rather nicely.

 

[UnD34D]

Characters, stages, movement, attacks, the universal ability to counter (outside of stun)... you know, the things that make Tekken, Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter different. They all have guaranteed combos if you mess up (or force your opponent to mess up), but they play nothing alike.

But they sure as fuck are good games.

 

[Sagittarius]

Great.
So TeamNINJA screwed the game up 2 months before release again? Now would be the time to flock to Twitter and Facebook about them needing to restore the Critical Burst mechanic back to it's more useful state as it was in the E3 build.

Really, I'm disappointed and very worried that this will be just as infuriatingly annoying to play as DOA4 was. Especially since only certain characters can even make use of the the new systems.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Great.
So TeamNINJA screwed the game up 2 months before release again? Now would be the time to flock to Twitter and Facebook about them needing to restore the Critical Burst mechanic back to it's more useful state as it was in the E3 build.

Really, I'm disappointed and very worried that this will be just as infuriatingly annoying to play as DOA4 was. Especially since only certain characters can even make use of the the new systems.

Hopefully it doesnt fall for the same fate as DOA4.

Like Mariposa's new tools? >_>



Well, CB has been toned down so it's more about sit-down stuns now. Limbo is almost always impacted by stance, which makes it unreliable, and so far only a handful of characters have the faint stun. So basically, if your character can chain 2-3 sit-down stuns, you're okay. If they can't, you're playing DOA4.

I don't really want to put a number on it...

This is kinda sad to here. And how are limbos stuns impacted by stances?

 

[Blazeincarnated]

I felt that countering didnt even need to be changed since playing the Alpha build demo. Them changing it, would just make it more easy to button mash. And thats all.

 

[Rikuto]

At the moment, I'm feeling like half the characters are probably pretty good on a competitive level, and half are DOA 4-ish. I know that they were taking feedback from the japanese players and the japanese prefer a more defensive game.

It almost feels like they are trying to appease both sides.... but if half the cast plays like DOA 4, all that means is the intelligent players are going to stomp all over anyone who plays those characters. Is that really appeasement?

Either way, 50% is probably low balling the number. Some characters are solid as a rock, and nobody is saying you NEED critical burst to get damage. A few unholdable stuns should give people enough launch height to get respectable damage.

 

[Rubedood]

This news saddens me. I thought they understood that no one wants to play DOA4 again, but changes like this points to the opposite direction. If you see it as a big problem, make sure they know about it. I hope they can balance the characters, because this isn't sounding promising ATM.

 

[Blazeincarnated]

At the moment, I'm feeling like half the characters are probably pretty good on a competitive level, and half are DOA 4-ish. I know that they were taking feedback from the japanese players and the japanese prefer a more defensive game.

It almost feels like they are trying to appease both sides.... but if half the cast plays like DOA 4, all that means is the intelligent players are going to stomp all over anyone who plays those characters. Is that really appeasement?

Either way, 50% is probably low balling the number. Some characters are solid as a rock, and nobody is saying you NEED critical burst to get damage. A few unholdable stuns should give people enough launch height to get respectable damage.

What characters are DOA4 -ish?

 

[grap3fruitman]

The guessing has always been in DOA aside from maybe 3.1 (I haven't played it so I can't say).

DOA3.1 still has a lot of problems that other DOA games have but it had the most scenarios where you could disable the hold and guarantee damage as well as create legitimate frame traps and what not. This is why 3.1 is looked at so favorably in comparison to other DOAs.

The game revolves around delayed strings and free-canceling as a false sense of safety. This enhances the guessing game and forces you to either eat unbreakable throws or guess your way out of the situation. It's one of the big reasons why it doesn't get seen much from a competitive stand point.

Which is very unfortunate. DOA just needs a few changes to become a great fighter and the biggest one is to remove the constant guessing. I hope Team Ninja comes to their senses before 9/25.

 

[Blazeincarnated]

Are you saying you guys want to remove counters all together?

 

[TRI Mike]

I know Dogg's knowledge of the game can be trusted but we're not really gonna know if Lisa and Fang (among the other DOA4-ish characters) will really not make use of the new system until the game is out and tourneys start to happen.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Are you saying you guys want to remove counters all together?

Not necessarily. High level fighting game gameplay is about getting guaranteed damage. The situations where I can disable the hold and thus get guaranteed damage are always looked at favorably in DOA: guard breaks/crushes, wall hits, Critical Burst, etc.

 

[Rikuto]

Are you saying you guys want to remove counters all together?

No. Attacks that can shut down the hold, yes. We want that without a doubt, and in many cases we have it. Having more would be ideal.

At this stage we want more safe attacks and stance transitions that are not guaranteed to be interrupted 100% of the time (which they wouldn't be if they were safe).

Here are some facts though. If your character has sit down stuns that link into CB they will be top tier and solid as hell. A few characters can do this.

If your character has sit down stuns and a generally safe movelist they will be able to safe achieve a decent launch height without relying on CB. They will be mid-high tier depending on individual tools. A very good number of characters can do this.

If your character lacks safety and reasonable access to unholdable stuns they will not be able to compete with the rest of the cast... at all.

Jann Lee I would say might be an exception to that rule because even if he ends up being as unsafe as he was in DOA 4 (and i doubt he would be) I see him having access to some very very painful wall game off of a single dragon gunner. Unless you have some legit setup like that though, you're boned.

 

[UnD34D]

Jann Lee I would say might be an exception to that rule because even if he ends up being as unsafe as he was in DOA 4 (and i doubt he would be) I see him having access to some very very painful wall game off of a single dragon gunner. Unless you have some legit setup like that though, you're boned.

Here's hoping for that dragon gunner to dragon spike and 6P+H (against wall) to 6P!

 

[Arnell Long]

My worries has reemerged...

Team Ninja, please listen to your Fans and stick with what we had before hand. A Dead or Alive 4.5 will only hurt the series more than help it grow.

You have different communities actually trying to give it a go, heck, even Seasons Beatings added DOA5 to its roster. Lets hope we aren't let down and they come around to fixing these before release.

Those of you who are going to IPL2 and or GVN should really stress this to Shimbori if we can't get in touch with TN before hand.

Tier list/Tournament viability will be based off of characters who can utilize the system better and those who are stuck in the DOA4 realm will be destined to lose...fix this now!

 

[DrDogg]

There are only two issues that I feel need to be adjusted...

1. More safe attacks that are mid and tracking. Having a safe high attack when the alternative is an unsafe mid that doesn't launch, isn't a very appealing scenario. I'll take the mid hit all day long.

2. CB needs to be restored to where it was at E3.

Make those two changes and the game is fine.

 

[TRI Mike]

Are there any realistic possibilities of it happening¿