Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
She should be able to with more than one move getting her sit down and limbo stuns. She should be one of the characters that can CB easily. Unless her CB move is stupid, meaning that it is slow or just a high attack.
IGN's 12 Days of DOA5
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Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that and 1P are really it, unless you count the low string ender or 2F+K, which we don't know the stun property of now.
The thing about that shoulder 3P+K is it's unsafe and leaves her back turned, with no immediate follow up. The opponent has to be pretty slow to not punish it. Pretty fair move.
Lobo
Active Member
When Rikuto said shoulder I instantly thought of her 46P. That was her more infamous shoulder.
But 3P+K was still a beastly move, at least for me. Sure it was unsafe as hell, but so was nearly every single one of her moves. The thing about 3P+K was that even after an unsafe move, you could throw 3P+K out and go under just about anything.
But 3P+K was still a beastly move, at least for me. Sure it was unsafe as hell, but so was nearly every single one of her moves. The thing about 3P+K was that even after an unsafe move, you could throw 3P+K out and go under just about anything.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
46p is the correct move I believe, not the one that left her backturned. It stopped damn near everything....
Yea some of Leifang's crushes were just stupid. If she is getting any of the evasion buffs that ayane got as far as crush properties go, that is going to be terrifying to deal with.
Yea some of Leifang's crushes were just stupid. If she is getting any of the evasion buffs that ayane got as far as crush properties go, that is going to be terrifying to deal with.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
4 hits, like most characters at this point, but she's not really going to use that. You can't link a CB off of her faint stun and she lacks sit-down stuns (less than any other character at the moment). You won't see her CB much in high level play unless someone really wants to go through the DOA4 stun system.
She doesn't have much in the way of sit-down stuns and her limbo stuns are not reliable since you have to be in the correct stance to get them. And even then it's always the last hit in a combo string.
The thing about Leifang in her current state is that a good player will have to excel at reading the opponent. Her parry is the bread and butter of her offense (and defense). If you can hit that a few times, the round is over for the most part. If you use it and the opponent hesitates, they're eating 25% or more. But you're basically taking a risk every time you go for a parry, advanced hold or high crush attack.
Sagittarius
Member
If she can't even use the new CB system efficiently, that kind of makes Leifang sound like she's not even meant for DOA5.
Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? Because it's sounding like if you want to win with her, you have to rely on the same gamble of a gimmick, and I really don't like that.
Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? Because it's sounding like if you want to win with her, you have to rely on the same gamble of a gimmick, and I really don't like that.
Lobo
Active Member
To
To me, it sounds like she got better at something we all knew she was already good at - defense.
Like Dogg said, in 4, if you could get a good read on your opponent, they were finished. You like a lot of highs, I'll 1P and 2F+K you all day long. Mids, I'll throw out her 3F parry until you call me cheap. It also made some character matchups a lot easier. Crushes for chars like Kasumi and Christie, and parries for chars like Jann or Gen Fu.
The problem in 4 was that she didn't have a lot of choices after the parry, so even if you did read your opponent right, they often walked away scotch-free.
Now it seems like she can do a lot of pain afterwards, which has me excited as hell. She'll have you second guessing every mid you throw out. I can't wait to play her and bring back the parry princess (lame I know, but i had it as my motto for a while and now it seems relevant)
To me, it sounds like she got better at something we all knew she was already good at - defense.
Like Dogg said, in 4, if you could get a good read on your opponent, they were finished. You like a lot of highs, I'll 1P and 2F+K you all day long. Mids, I'll throw out her 3F parry until you call me cheap. It also made some character matchups a lot easier. Crushes for chars like Kasumi and Christie, and parries for chars like Jann or Gen Fu.
The problem in 4 was that she didn't have a lot of choices after the parry, so even if you did read your opponent right, they often walked away scotch-free.
Now it seems like she can do a lot of pain afterwards, which has me excited as hell. She'll have you second guessing every mid you throw out. I can't wait to play her and bring back the parry princess (lame I know, but i had it as my motto for a while and now it seems relevant)
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Well, keep in mind the CB was toned down. Most characters can't CB in under 4 hits. However, I do feel that while she isn't forced to play the stun game, Leifang is a bit lacking in high level play. From my perspective, there are just too many ways around her parries.
We'll see how the final adjustments change her though. It's still a bit early.
Sagittarius
Member
I understand you, Lobo. I know she's not a crap character and I'm glad for her changes and I get that she's been buffed in an area that she's always needed but as DrDogg said, she's still a bit lacking.
I don't even have to play her right now to see from his perspective; her parry's a gimmick. All a player has to do is figure out how to deal with said gimmick and she's done. I think that's the problem with basing a character around a certain forte.
If they were going to make her parry her main tool, they need to treat her like they would a grappler and give her enough options and setups to use it efficiently and flexibly. I would have thought with VF guest characters that TN would be taking more notes, a linear defensive character is a dead one.
But yeah, I'll digress for now since it is still early-ish. I just hope she's not a one-trick-pony once the game hits the shelves.
I don't even have to play her right now to see from his perspective; her parry's a gimmick. All a player has to do is figure out how to deal with said gimmick and she's done. I think that's the problem with basing a character around a certain forte.
If they were going to make her parry her main tool, they need to treat her like they would a grappler and give her enough options and setups to use it efficiently and flexibly. I would have thought with VF guest characters that TN would be taking more notes, a linear defensive character is a dead one.
But yeah, I'll digress for now since it is still early-ish. I just hope she's not a one-trick-pony once the game hits the shelves.
Einzelkind
Active Member
Since Shimbori already said that he thinks she still needs some buffs, I wouldn't worry too much right now. DrDogg is probably a much better judge, but it doesn't seem like she lost anything from her previous versions. She's always been a solid character as far as I can tell. The crucial point is wether all the other characters got even more improvements than her.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
so all in all instead of giving her useful tools they just added more parlor tricks to her arsenal that work on online scrubs who don't know the match up but will easily get shut down by competent players. shit ain't lookin too good for brad 
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
I have to assume she's still being adjusted. Either that, or Team Ninja has a different focus for her. All of her new stuff is really cool, until you try to figure out a way around it. Then you start to see you can interrupt or step everything on reaction.
Throws generally track in the game, so characters with offensive holds get a free mix-up to their linear attacks. Unfortunately, when the offensive hold is a jumping attack, it seems to lose a lot of its tracking ability. Not to mention the active frames of the OH aren't instant, so I was able to attack before the OH was active AND got a hi-counter hit out of it.
All of that, and she's still not the worst character in the game...
BUT, there's still time for changes. It really wouldn't take much to make the low-tier characters viable. Shimbori is making the characters safer, it's just that with La Mariposa, it's not necessary the right attacks. It doesn't matter if an attack is safe when it leaves her BT at -3 or comes at the end of a 4-hit string. So a few minor adjustments and she'll be good to go.
Throws generally track in the game, so characters with offensive holds get a free mix-up to their linear attacks. Unfortunately, when the offensive hold is a jumping attack, it seems to lose a lot of its tracking ability. Not to mention the active frames of the OH aren't instant, so I was able to attack before the OH was active AND got a hi-counter hit out of it.
All of that, and she's still not the worst character in the game...
BUT, there's still time for changes. It really wouldn't take much to make the low-tier characters viable. Shimbori is making the characters safer, it's just that with La Mariposa, it's not necessary the right attacks. It doesn't matter if an attack is safe when it leaves her BT at -3 or comes at the end of a 4-hit string. So a few minor adjustments and she'll be good to go.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Well if we look at DOA4 Helena, her bread and butter was BKO throw into a forced tech for an unholdable situation. That ground game is long gone, so if she does appear in DOA5, it's unlikely she'll still have that. If she did have it, she'd be the only character in the game with that kind of situation.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Like Mariposa's new tools? >_>
Well, CB has been toned down so it's more about sit-down stuns now. Limbo is almost always impacted by stance, which makes it unreliable, and so far only a handful of characters have the faint stun. So basically, if your character can chain 2-3 sit-down stuns, you're okay. If they can't, you're playing DOA4.
I don't really want to put a number on it...
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
You wouldn't be playing DOA4 - just because you cannot string together several unholdable stuns doesn't mean every other significant change to the system is invalidated. This is not DOA4, and it shouldn't be any other fighter where one mistake means a guaranteed combo all the time, either.
This is DOA5, nothing more or less.
This is DOA5, nothing more or less.
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