KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Well, can't they work on Helena's individuality then -her BKO stance- to buff her ? What would you add ? Sidestep, a low throw and then ? A hold or a parry ? (jk)
IPL Helena Breakdown
- Thread starter DrDogg
- Start date
-Drdogg pretty much said all of the things that would need to buff her. But to reiterate, safer transition in and out of Bokuho, safer attacks, maybe an Oh from Bokuho, or maybe some hit throws from bokuho that leave her at + frames, a special bokuho parry is not a bad idea, some sabakis. There is a lot that can be done to buff her yet make her an individual.
-Before any conclusions could be made, it is best that we play the game, see how everything goes. I'm just not a fan of saying its xyz before xyz is fully tried and tested. In a couple of months we will have a clear indication of what is or is not going on.
-Before any conclusions could be made, it is best that we play the game, see how everything goes. I'm just not a fan of saying its xyz before xyz is fully tried and tested. In a couple of months we will have a clear indication of what is or is not going on.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
She's also unsafe, slow, does little damage, completely lost her evasiveness, and mid punch oriented for most of everything.
She's not being designed to use the stun system, it's her only means of doing damage.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Agreed... but it's not like having a safe 66P, PP or 4PPP would have had a negative impact on that mentality.
You keep saying this as if there will be drastic changes in the characters once the community at large gets to play. Outside of the forced tech findings (which was just Silent Legend, not the community at large), what changed about DOA4.1 from release until now?
Which characters were low tier that suddenly became solid (again, not counting the forced tech findings)? Lisa was low tier on day one and she's still low tier today. Bayman actually got worse when people (Rikuto) discovered his special wake-up glitch. I can't think of a single character that moved up or down on the tier list due to new discoveries other than the forced tech stuff.
So where is your basis for this?
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
Hitomi : Unsafe , slow, has no evasiveness. So out of the 5 things you listed Hitomi fits that bill. And yes Helena has a ton of mid punches but her 9k and 8k came in handy a lot of the time. All characters don't need to be super safe, fast, do a ton of damage, can evade everything, and have a tons of mix up. . . .
It could be a lot worse than what you have seen.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
So Hitomi's better than Helena? I'm just saying Helena has nothing going for her not that she needs everything listed.
It probably will be worse once you see how a shitty version of a DOA4 character goes up against a VF5 character.
-What I am saying, things change, peoples perception change. It is not uncanny to have an idea of what said tier list is going to be, than all of a sudden a new player with a new style, utilizing different nuances with a different mindset, is capable of changing what was thought to be the truth. On paper strengths do not always play out in competitive play. No one is currently playing Doa5 as Doa5, so no one knows what the exact outcome will be.
-For the record, Doa4's tier list was revised multiple times, even after what was found with forced tech and the ground game glitch.
Ooobe
Active Member
Very true, but if a character doesn't have effective DOA5 tools, doesn't that significantly skew the likely result?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Good news for Helena she doesn't have any. Here's hoping someone discovers a game breaking glitch that she can exploit best.
-Yes of course, but it always goes back to real time play vs theory fighter. What you can find in real play could be something that other players have not thought of, or deemed possible.
chocogerman777
Well-Known Member
Belated 13th Day of DoA 5
IPL Helena BROKEDOWN
Evading 9 frame highs using her Broke-A-Ho stance.
(Bitching is fun)
IPL Helena BROKEDOWN
Evading 9 frame highs using her Broke-A-Ho stance.
(Bitching is fun)
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Man Helena will be so easy to read. Btw.... Where can I talk about Zack in the IPL build?
x Sypher x
Active Member
Wtf are you talking about? Helena was never easy to read since DOA4, her mixup game was stupid good. I'm sure she's still got it, we just haven't seen everything. Have a little faith, like this guy: https://facebook.com/home.php?refid...4400&wend=1346482799&ustart&__user=1264746572
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
with the new sidestepping ability... mix ups alone during the neutral game won't really mean shit anymore. no way in hell im gonna sit their blocking and guessing her poke strings when i can simply back dash and side step whatever she throws out. the new doa5 mechanics simply kills her in everyway. during the stun game every character has mix up potential due to string delays/free cancelling/bait counters etc. so its not like she alone has superior mix up abilities compared to everyone else
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Pretty much. Now can someone tell me where I can talk about Zack?
Dude in 5...everything is a mid punch.
Paulina
Active Member
Helena is going to be the least popular character in DOA5 Online.. and then they're going to cut her like they did with Tengu and Leon.
Hayashi about DOA6 : "why do you want Helena.. ? No one even care or play with her anyway.."
Geez, these Helena zingers never get old. :Bradwong:
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
That would be great except that said they don't like the idea of rebalancing post launch so if Helena gets released as garbage she is going to stay that way. They simply went overboard with the nerfs. For the first time I'm actually not sure whether I want the game. It honestly feels like TN has given every Helena player a slap in the face.
I mean they nerfed her P+K, okay. Then proceeded to nerf her Bokuho in general. Why? Was every aspect of her game play OP?
All they had to do was nerf her ground game which the game system did anyway, lower her counter hold damage and make it so P+K only crushed high's and not mid's. That alone would have hit her hard but she would still be viable. I don't see how anyone can look at what they did to Helena and think it was justified when you look at the slight nerfs Busa received.
She is slow, has no ability to crush, has the worst damage output in the game and is grossly unsafe. And why are ALL of her CB attacks Mid Punches? She gets pretty much nothing even if she manages to get you in a sit down stun. Oh but she does get slight frame advantage if you are dumb enough to block a move that is 3 or 4 mid punches in a row and has no string manipulation.
7 fucking years and all we got was DOA4 Helena with every aspect of her game play nerfed in some way.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Well it seem they had to give someone who use to be the good the nerf bat, right?
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
Not gonna lie, watching you guys freak out about Helena has me dying of laughter. There will be someone who will be exceptionally well with her regardless of the nerfs to her or all the things that keep her back.
Just how there are top level low tier players in other games that do well. Just takes a really talented and creative individual to bring out something in a character.
Helena's damage in 4 was pretty low too. . .most of her damage came from looping you to death with forced tech 50/50s lmao.
The only real nerf to her was the hold damage which is universal and her ability to evade EVERYTHING. So basically you are crying because she can't evade anything, her damage is practically the same, and you can't loop people into 50/50's anymore?
At least Doc is upset because they just didn't seem to give her any DoA5ish stuff but took her strong defensive tools. So now she is just a normal character lolz
Just how there are top level low tier players in other games that do well. Just takes a really talented and creative individual to bring out something in a character.
Helena's damage in 4 was pretty low too. . .most of her damage came from looping you to death with forced tech 50/50s lmao.
The only real nerf to her was the hold damage which is universal and her ability to evade EVERYTHING. So basically you are crying because she can't evade anything, her damage is practically the same, and you can't loop people into 50/50's anymore?
At least Doc is upset because they just didn't seem to give her any DoA5ish stuff but took her strong defensive tools. So now she is just a normal character lolz