DOA5LR Mai Shiranui DOA5 Last Round Gameplay Discussion

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I guess that's because people haven't got accustomed to her moves yet.

As I mentioned in one of the posts a few weeks ago, her 3PP/3P2K isn't that threatening.
People are not going to throw out 3PK in neutral unless he wants to do something different. Besides, 3PK only causes a knockback with damage no more than 40 and is unsafe on block so I don't even consider it.

3PP causes a knockdown with a small amount of damage, too. If one ducks to try to block lows, he gets free damage from a low throw punishment and only loses a minor amount of damage if hit by 3PP when ducking. Same can be said about retaliating immediately with i11 mids if a character has it. So on paper the relative safe option is to just block her 3P2K.

I think you're really underestimating how good Mai's 214P and variants actually is. It is a i12 frame tracking mid punch that is a knockdown up close and a lift stun for +32/+23 a bit away, as well as a legitimate launcher on counter hit (6PKK or 3PK juggles) at the same range. The knockdown up close will give you an OTG you cannot gain from other fast mids in the game (or at all from a single hit fast mid). Which is the ability to completely take away the WUK from the opponent, you can force them to tech up because of buffering in microdash 1K. No other character has this from an i11 or i12 mid off a single hit (correct me if I'm wrong).

I've been abusing the crap of 6PK knockdowns as Ayane for a long time, I'm abusing the crap out of Mai's 214P knockdowns the same way. You get to keep up the momentum and pressure. You don't lose either at all.

Mai's 3P2K is also very good as a range tool (keepaway, low poke, space control from 3P). You have to be wary of 3P, 3PP, and 3P2K against Mai at range because her 3P is a legitimate footsie move. Has more range than her 8P (1.56 vs 1.55cm makes a difference IMO, I can feel it as I play) and both moves are great options with good follow ups.

All of 3P's follow ups will knockdown in critical stun, neutral hit and counter hit, except for 3P2K, which will only do so on counter hit and critical stun.
 

UprisingJC

Well-Known Member
I think you're really underestimating how good Mai's 214P and variants actually is. It is a i12 frame tracking mid punch that is a knockdown up close and a lift stun for +32/+23 a bit away, as well as a legitimate launcher on counter hit (6PKK or 3PK juggles) at the same range. The knockdown up close will give you an OTG you cannot gain from other fast mids in the game (or at all from a single hit fast mid). Which is the ability to completely take away the WUK from the opponent, you can force them to tech up because of buffering in microdash 1K. No other character has this from an i11 or i12 mid off a single hit (correct me if I'm wrong).

I've been abusing the crap of 6PK knockdowns as Ayane for a long time, I'm abusing the crap out of Mai's 214P knockdowns the same way. You get to keep up the momentum and pressure. You don't lose either at all.

Mai's 3P2K is also very good as a range tool (keepaway, low poke, space control from 3P). You have to be wary of 3P, 3PP, and 3P2K against Mai at range because her 3P is a legitimate footsie move. Has more range than her 8P (1.56 vs 1.55cm makes a difference IMO, I can feel it as I play) and both moves are great options with good follow ups.

All of 3P's follow ups will knockdown in critical stun, neutral hit and counter hit, except for 3P2K, which will only do so on counter hit and critical stun.
Ayane's 6PK is a hard knockdown, and I believe there's a guaranteed FT if her opponent doesn't tech right away?
I'm not sure if Mai can also do the similar thing from her 214p, so far I only know she can do the FT with 8H+K after 214p against heavyweight characters. No delaying of 8H+K is needed.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I wasn't comparing the attributes of both characters knockdowns, just saying how I abuse the moves that'll knockdown from fast mids.

For Mai, after 214P you can immediately buffer in a microdash 1K, it'll ground hit if the opponent doesn't tech roll. If they do, then you have follow ups to 1K. You can also go for something else entirely after you've conditioned people to tech roll after being knocked down by 214P.
 

UprisingJC

Well-Known Member
I wasn't comparing the attributes of both characters knockdowns, just saying how I abuse the moves that'll knockdown from fast mids.

For Mai, after 214P you can immediately buffer in a microdash 1K, it'll ground hit if the opponent doesn't tech roll. If they do, then you have follow ups to 1K. You can also go for something else entirely after you've conditioned people to tech roll after being knocked down by 214P.
Microdash 1k?
I guess you mean 66 -> 1KP -> (NO TECH ROLL) -> 1K or 1P ?
 

SilverForte

Well-Known Member
And if they do tech roll, you can right back into the ryuenbu followup, and it they get hit, go back into the same situation.

The safest thing to do after blocking pp or 3p is to fuzzy guard I'm thinking, delay a low block. That way if they do ryuenbu you'll block it, but if not your delayed low block will block 2k as well.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I believe I found a pretty good blender situation with Mai. Gonna keep fleshing this out before I say anything further.
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
I definitely need to emphasize on Mai's okizeme a bit more. More than a few of her moves will hit the opponent while they are grounded. I am too scared of getting CH'd by WU kicks. It may also be wise to implement 9P follow ups to take advantage of the opponents stun state because they work pretty well in that scenario and can be good for baiting out bad holds (the player can choose to do nothing after 9P. She also has mid punch, mid kick, and high punch follow ups out from her 9P follow ups). They can also be utilized for instigating a stun while also taking advantage of the small evasion frames from it (though, she may still get hit in some scenarios though. In a Mai mirror match, Kachousen can still hit her out of 9P). Kachousen is a lot better than it seems, in spite of it being a high, non-tracking move. It does not take that much time for her to recover after tossing the fan and she will be free to back dash or using another normal to keep the opponent away from her. After reaching a certain range, the opponent will not be able to do much about the Kachousen. The opponent will "have" to take some sort of initiative if they want to implement any sort of offense. Turtling with Mai should be advocated, even if it is just to test and see how good their offense truly is.

Later on, I am going to compile a list of aspects and game play similarities that she has with her KOF iterations. She shares a lot of signature moves that I like using on KOF98, along with with more than few obscure moves from back in the days of Fatal Fury. While DOA5LR is a completely different game altogether, I still want to believe that KOF players would feel right at home for playing Mai based on how her move pool works. For example, Mai's 1KK is actually her df+B from KOF98 (which she had in other games before 98). She actually slides forward a short distance and then performs the reverse flip kick. It goes underneath projectiles, including Omega Rugal's Gravity Smash projectile (even during the startup frames because the startup will actually hurt nearby opponents too, but such as the curse of being an SNK boss). She also incorporates her Ukihane in her air throw and her 2T throws, among other things. And, her 3K is actually her standing D from CVS2 (and in XIII). The startup of her Power Blow attack is based on her CD attack and functions more or less the same, going over lows and being very safe on block.

What I would like to see is Mai implementing her CD attack from XIII and XIV where she just quickly flings her "tails" forward. I can already see that being rather crazy though, based on how the animation works, especially in XIV. The startup is rather fast and the range is pretty long. And, by the logic of DOA, it would also track.
 

UprisingJC

Well-Known Member
So, there're a few hitbox-related things to take care of.

1. 3P+K crushes certain mids like Bayman's 3P and 33P and it's not stance-dependent.

2. Moves like 3K and 6K get crushed by Akira's WR 3P+K(The shoulder tackle that hits mid, not 3P+K), depending on the stance.
Make sure to use some other moves like H+K or 8P in order to hit him trying to use this move. This is one of his moves that're frequently used when Akira's in disadvantage.
Ex: 66P(Blocked, -5 for Akira) -> WR 3P+K
 

J.D.E.

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I definitely need to emphasize on Mai's okizeme a bit more. More than a few of her moves will hit the opponent while they are grounded. I am too scared of getting CH'd by WU kicks. It may also be wise to implement 9P follow ups to take advantage of the opponents stun state because they work pretty well in that scenario and can be good for baiting out bad holds (the player can choose to do nothing after 9P. She also has mid punch, mid kick, and high punch follow ups out from her 9P follow ups). They can also be utilized for instigating a stun while also taking advantage of the small evasion frames from it (though, she may still get hit in some scenarios though. In a Mai mirror match, Kachousen can still hit her out of 9P). Kachousen is a lot better than it seems, in spite of it being a high, non-tracking move. It does not take that much time for her to recover after tossing the fan and she will be free to back dash or using another normal to keep the opponent away from her. After reaching a certain range, the opponent will not be able to do much about the Kachousen. The opponent will "have" to take some sort of initiative if they want to implement any sort of offense. Turtling with Mai should be advocated, even if it is just to test and see how good their offense truly is.

Later on, I am going to compile a list of aspects and game play similarities that she has with her KOF iterations. She shares a lot of signature moves that I like using on KOF98, along with with more than few obscure moves from back in the days of Fatal Fury. While DOA5LR is a completely different game altogether, I still want to believe that KOF players would feel right at home for playing Mai based on how her move pool works. For example, Mai's 1KK is actually her df+B from KOF98 (which she had in other games before 98). She actually slides forward a short distance and then performs the reverse flip kick. It goes underneath projectiles, including Omega Rugal's Gravity Smash projectile (even during the startup frames because the startup will actually hurt nearby opponents too, but such as the curse of being an SNK boss). She also incorporates her Ukihane in her air throw and her 2T throws, among other things. And, her 3K is actually her standing D from CVS2 (and in XIII). The startup of her Power Blow attack is based on her CD attack and functions more or less the same, going over lows and being very safe on block.

What I would like to see is Mai implementing her CD attack from XIII and XIV where she just quickly flings her "tails" forward. I can already see that being rather crazy though, based on how the animation works, especially in XIV. The startup is rather fast and the range is pretty long. And, by the logic of DOA, it would also track.
If they would give her the CD blowback in this game, then it would be a bit overkill to tell you the truth lol. Reason being is because in XIV, while -7-8, you could cancel it into a fire tailspin for a true blockstring or a light fan toss. Now sure you can't do that in this game, but the move would create a lot of distance & guard break with either + frame advantage or slightly - on block. Either that or a bound stand & then slam against walls.

I think this version of Mai is good, but in XIV, she's a strong as she's ever been in a KOF game. People have a tough time dealing with her in that game lol.
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
If they would give her the CD blowback in this game, then it would be a bit overkill to tell you the truth lol. Reason being is because in XIV, while -7-8, you could cancel it into a fire tailspin for a true blockstring or a light fan toss. Now sure you can't do that in this game, but the move would create a lot of distance & guard break with either + frame advantage or slightly - on block. Either that or a bound stand & then slam against walls.

I think this version of Mai is good, but in XIV, she's a strong as she's ever been in a KOF game. People have a tough time dealing with her in that game lol.
Oh, I've been exploiting that for a very long while now. In the 1.03 Patch of XIV, they got rid of a small glitch where she actually did more damage than she was supposed to with Max 236236AC. The good news is that even without the corner and this glitch, she still nets over 500 damage (half-life) off of a close D. There is also the case of her having great mobility as well (which is what she has been known for).

As for KOF98UMFE, I prefer her EX version more...
 

J.D.E.

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Oh, I've been exploiting that for a very long while now. In the 1.03 Patch of XIV, they got rid of a small glitch where she actually did more damage than she was supposed to with Max 236236AC. The good news is that even without the corner and this glitch, she still nets over 500 damage (half-life) off of a close D. There is also the case of her having great mobility as well (which is what she has been known for).

As for KOF98UMFE, I prefer her EX version more...
It's still one of her best moves because she still able to cancel into true blockstrings & she can condition people to block & not guard cancel in order to punish the heavy versions of QCB+P & her fan
 

SilverForte

Well-Known Member
How tight is the timing on the microdash 1k after ryuenbu knockdown? People keep being able to wu kick anyways, or it just misses.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Damn...they stealth semi-nerfed Mai's 66PK...before the recent patch the mid kick would stun on normal hit but now it just launches..
 
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Lulu

Well-Known Member
LoL.... I remember when they did that to Momiji !!!! She was so much fun back then. :(
 
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