I hate when people say "you should never give up!"

[Intelligent Alpha]

@Kronin Yep! Folks give me hell cause I don't play like Xcali (and I've played him and got my ass beat, but I expected it)

 

[Argentus]

I have a hard time trying to believe you're not trolling.

I feel the same way about most of the responses here.

"Its disrespectful to stop fighting back"
*locked in combos and can't fight back*
"Um..."

@Argentus...

Screw what everybody says. Just do you.

But my arms tired. XD

Someday I swear to god I'll be able to handle your Christie. Until then....fuck lol.

Imma keep trying but I have no issue calling what I see as bullshit, as you know.

 

[Grimace]

ITT Argentus begs for attention

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Your words are falling on deaf ears, Kronin.

This guy you're replying to in particular has no intention of listening to you, only insulting you and everyone else who isn't completely ridiculing Argentus.

I'm not even insulting Kronin lol. He's cool.

My reply was just my reaction to him mentioning "fairplay". There is no "grey area" bullshit argument in fighting games, no such thing as an honor code, fair play, hidden rules to respect in order to fight with "dignity", because anything that is virtually possible within the game is automatically legit (except pausing the game duh, that's a tournament bannable offense).

Argentus on the other hand... not cool. He/she embodies all the mentality that is commonly known as "scrubby" in fighting games, as it's seen by almost each of his/her embarassing forum post. I therefore reserve the right to shit on this thread thoroughfully as long as it's open.

well it's obvious that wazaa is a cunt for a while now, wouldn't be suprised if it's shiki's troll account

Once again I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not even sure we're speaking the same language.

 

[Argentus]

I'm not even insulting Kronin lol. He's cool.

My reply was just my reaction to him mentioning "fairplay". There is no "grey area" bullshit argument in fighting games, no such thing as an honor code, fair play, hidden rules to respect in order to fight with "dignity", because anything that is virtually possible within the game is automatically legit (except pausing the game duh, that's a tournament bannable offense).

Argentus on the other hand... not cool. He/she embodies all the mentality that is commonly known as "scrubby" in fighting games, as it's seen by almost each of his/her embarassing forum post. I therefore reserve the right to shit on this thread thoroughfully as long as it's open.



Once again I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not even sure we're speaking the same language.

Normally I just ignore you because obvious troll is obvious, but...
Oh the irony lol.

You make a big post saying there's no such thing as sportsmanship because its not a coded in gameplay mechanic, yet are fine with me being told I have to stick to YOUR imaginary ruleset lol.


This is the hypocrisy I was talking about earlier.

 

[Kronin]

@WAZAAAAA Thanks for the clarification and sorry, then I think to have misunderstood your post but I also think that you could have misunderstood mine. When I used the word "fairplay" actually I meant the behavior of the player outside the fighting game so as flaming, trolling, taunting, hitting the opponent after beaten, in general all the things freely made for offending/insulting the other player without a real reason for it if not because "I won the match, so I can treat you as a loser" or "I lost the match, so I need to appear a winner in someway".

[However I open a parenthesis about taunting in the match (even not using the taunts move) or hitting a beaten player: I know that this sometimes happens even in the official tournaments, but it's clear in that case how the player is not doing it for "fun" but actually want psychologically destabilize the opponent (that has to be good to notice it and "strong" enough for remaining impassive and focused on the competition), fighting even outside the effective match. I noticed on the streaming that some players are able to do it even with their physical behavior and subtly (if I haven't misunderstood them xD), sometimes I think that they are more strategists than players of a fighting game xD By the way I appreciate all this until is done without real resentment toward the other player but starts and end inside the match.]

For the rest I said more times that personally I think that infinite combo as the ones that you can realize in Tag (so not circumstantial to a stage or a part of it) is the only tool that shouldn't be used in a match, but I've also admitted that this something overall tied to my personal mind, so I can't defend this opinion in an objective way but I can just say that I wouldn't use this behavior on my opponent (and of course I wouldn't like to be a victim of it).

Argentus on the other hand... not cool. He/she embodies all the mentality that is commonly known as "scrubby" in fighting games, as it's seen by almost each of his/her embarassing forum post. I therefore reserve the right to shit on this thread thoroughfully as long as it's open.

Whatever are the opinions of each other, agreeing or disagreeing everyone has to remain respectful. Feel free to express your opinion but please do it always in a polite way (of course this is valid for everyone).

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Normally I just ignore you because obvious troll is obvious, but...
Oh the irony lol.

You make a big post saying there's no such thing as sportsmanship because its not a coded in gameplay mechanic, yet are fine with me being told I have to stick to YOUR imaginary ruleset lol.


This is the hypocrisy I was talking about earlier.

"My ruleset" implies no rules.
Pretty much like freedom, its only rule to respect is to not limit anyone else's.


@Kronin
I can respect your position in flaming&trolling.
Taunts for me make sense if they don't negatively affect the outcome of the match. Taunting after winning > OK, taunting DURING a match > NO, the taunter can lose a round for taunting because they have no benefit in DOA, it's like holding back. For example I wish they removed forced taunts on Jann Lee because they make his moves less advantageous on hit lol.
Infinites are part of (many) games though and should be used, can't blame the player for those, at most blame the developers.

 

[Argentus]

"My ruleset" implies no rules.
Pretty much like freedom, its only rule to respect is to not limit anyone else's.


@Kronin
I can respect your position in flaming&trolling.
Taunts for me make sense if they don't negatively affect the outcome of the match. Taunting after winning > OK, taunting DURING a match > NO, the taunter can lose a round for taunting because they have no benefit in DOA, it's like holding back. For example I wish they removed forced taunts on Jann Lee because they make his moves less advantageous on hit lol.
Infinites are part of (many) games though and should be used, can't blame the player for those, at most blame the developers.

Technically you can blame the players lol. Its due to the community that they are so widespread and wanted, or else they would just be prevented or patched out by the devs. That's why fighting games are so focuses on combos and guaranteed damage now - the community wants it, the devs provide it. That's why exploits and glitches and unforseen poor design choices like wave dashing, cross ups, infinites, cancels, are now the bread and butter of fighters, even against the developers wishes in a lot of cases.

On taunts, it depends for me. I like using non offensive ones as simple idle animations (I'll do mil as cmon let's go when there's a spare moment, but I won't do her spanking taunt except for end of round)

 

[Awesmic]

I'm not even insulting Kronin lol. He's cool.

My reply was just my reaction to him mentioning "fairplay". There is no "grey area" bullshit argument in fighting games, no such thing as an honor code, fair play, hidden rules to respect in order to fight with "dignity", because anything that is virtually possible within the game is automatically legit (except pausing the game duh, that's a tournament bannable offense).

Deliberately playing with (officially) banned characters and in (officially) banned stages also result in penalty... but now I'm just arguing semantics. In that case, I retract my perceived notion from earlier.

Argentus on the other hand... not cool. He/she embodies all the mentality that is commonly known as "scrubby" in fighting games, as it's seen by almost each of his/her embarassing forum post. I therefore reserve the right to shit on this thread thoroughfully as long as it's open.

I try my best not to think like a scrub and still get called a scrub by some people... so I see no difference. For all I know, I could be a scrub just for being born.

If you just don't like the guy, then fine. I've plenty of people who don't like me for dumb reasons, TBH.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

I try my best not to think like a scrub and still get called a scrub by some people... so I see no difference. For all I know, I could be a scrub just for being born.

The misuse of such word is to be expected, pretty much like what happened with the word "noob". Scientists clearly say that the majority of noob-callers are the actual noobs.

 

[Argentus]

Deliberately playing with (officially) banned characters and in (officially) banned stages also result in penalty... but now I'm just arguing semantics. In that case, I retract my perceived notion from earlier.


I try my best not to think like a scrub and still get called a scrub by some people... so I see no difference. For all I know, I could be a scrub just for being born.

If you just don't like the guy, then fine. I've plenty of people who don't like me for dumb reasons, TBH.

I've just learned that "scrub" is the go to flame term by idiots who don't have any kind of legitimate argument lol. It doesn't mean anything, its just a sign that says "ignore me I contribute nothing to the conversation" for people who use it.

If anything its usually the other way around. People honestly trying to call someone a "scrub" are usually the real ones.

 

[ModusPwnins]

I wasn't going to say anything at first, but I mean you've posted in the SoCal thread before and you sound like you want to get better at DOA.

So.....Honestly I find this to be an extremely defeatist attitude, and I really don't see how you can progress with this mentality.
I mean it's one thing if the dude lands a power blow and you're forced to watch this whole cutscene, but it sounds like you're flat out giving up before the round is over. Like the dude will finish his juggle and you won't tech, wakeup kick, or anything. Not even out of respect for the other player, out of respect for yourself at the very least put up some semblance of a fight so you're not just saying "I have concluded that I'm free, now let me bend over and take this ravaging buttsex without a struggle".

So yea, you're being juggled and for the most part it's guaranteed and probably does hella dmg. But shoot:
-maybe he drops his juggle
-maybe he makes a decision to opt for oki instead of dmg (and maybe that's a poor decision on his part)
-maybe he miscalculates wall distance and does the wrong juggle
-maybe he brainfarts and does the wrong juggle for the wrong weight class
-maybe he miscalculates juggle dmg and you're left with a tiny sliver
-maybe a stage wall doesn't break for whatever reason and the juggle stops short
-maybe your character is just barely off axis and the juggle doesn't fully land
-maybe he does the juggle at an angle and the camera angle changes thus screwing him up
-maybe you get lucky and he makes several terrible reads in a row
-maybe he's playing so by the book that stupid YOLO shit is free to spam on him (even stupid moves are legit if your opponent shows he cannot deal with it)
-maybe if he's really locking you down and nothing you do is working, the best thing to do is to really just wait and turtle. wait for him to overcommit and make the mistakes you need. If he wants rope then give him enough rope to hang himself.

I don't play Tekken and go up against Knee or Nin and just give up halfway through a match. Yea, I'm going to lose, but I'm going to go down kicking and screaming until the very last pixel of my health is gone. Did I get beat down? Yea. But I'll be damned if I don't do my best to force him to work his ass off for his win. At the very worst, I'll at least make sure he doesn't triple perfect me. It doesn't matter if I only take off 1/100th or 1/2 his bar.

If I'm getting rocked by the same sequence of moves over and over, then whatever. I'll keep throwing stuff at the wall until something sticks, or if absolutely nothing sticks then I'll at least finish the match and go on Facebook and ask Hajin or CrazySteady for matchup advice.
I'm an extremely new player to the DOA scene and I can't even count how many times Vincent Rayne , Commanda Panda, etc. have beaten me down in casuals to the point where I'm completely out of ideas and tired of playing. I'll finish the match and take a smoke break, or play something else until my head clears. If you can't move without taking dmg, then figure out the frame trap/mixup/setup/etc. Memorize exactly what he's doing and ask someone online for move properties, logic behind the move, and a solution.

Ultimately nobody can force you to do anything, but I mean if your reasoning is "I'm helpless" then please understand that's pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So I mean, if you're really intent on competing and getting good at DOA then I'll end this with something that a very high level Tekken friend of mine has told me:
"Staying frustrated is pointless. Don't play solely to win, play to learn and improve."

Exception to the rule: If this is strictly limited to online play, however, then disregard what I wrote. DOA's netcode is pretty damn terribad and I stop giving a fuck after a few lag spikes. FUCK online

 

[ModusPwnins]

That's why fighting games are so focuses on combos and guaranteed damage now - the community wants it, the devs provide it. That's why exploits and glitches and unforseen poor design choices like wave dashing, cross ups, infinites, cancels, are now the bread and butter of fighters, even against the developers wishes in a lot of cases.

What game are u referring to in terms of poor design choices?
I sincerely hope you're not referring to Tekken, cause all those things you listed are perfectly legit and far from poor design choices, even if they weren't originally intended by the dev.
There are no infinites in the most recent installment.
And the only debatable thing is maybe juggle dmg, and even that is mostly tolerable.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

"I have concluded that I'm free, now let me bend over and take this ravaging buttsex without a struggle".

lmao

 

[Argentus]

What game are u referring to in terms of poor design choices?
I sincerely hope you're not referring to Tekken, cause all those things you listed are perfectly legit and far from poor design choices, even if they weren't originally intended by the dev.
There are no infinites in the most recent installment.
And the only debatable thing is maybe juggle dmg, and even that is mostly tolerable.

I didn't say they weren't legit tactics, I said they originated as players exploiting the mechanics.

And mostly I was thinking of 2d fighters, where most modern tactics started as straight up glitching or exploiting the mechanics lol. Then like smash where the devs got rid of it and players whined because they liked it.

 

[Lulu]

I remember what my experience with fighting games was like before DoA.
Make one mistake.... lose half your health in a guaranteed damage juggle or some other bullshit........
Then came DoA5....... I was still losing and getting punished like crazy.... but the difference is I had alot more autonomy and control over my fate.... for the most part it takes atleast 3 to 4 mistakes before the game takes all the autonomy from you in a juggle...... thats fair right...... I mean I wish I had alil more control but surely everybody is content with the way it is..... Yomi for Everybody !
But every now and then theres going to be one of those Juggles with Unnatural Relaunches or some other bullshit that yanks control away from you in true Tekken fashion.
I'm no Pro.... infact I suck at DoA..... but I lose because I make wrong decisions.... not because I'm dangling in midair with no decisions to make....
if he wants guaranteed damage.... put down the controller and give it to him..... maybe he'l get bored and take his lazy tactics back to whatever one sided juggle happy game he spawned from.
And with that said.... I blame Team Ninja.....

 

[KING JAIMY]

I remember what my experience with fighting games was like before DoA.
Make one mistake.... lose half your health in a guaranteed damage juggle or some other bullshit........
Then came DoA5....... I was still losing and getting punished like crazy.... but the difference is I had alot more autonomy and control over my fate.... for the most part it takes atleast 3 to 4 mistakes before the game takes all the autonomy from you in a juggle...... thats fair right...... I mean I wish I had alil more control but surely everybody is content with the way it is..... Yomi for Everybody !
But every now and then theres going to be one of those Juggles with Unnatural Relaunches or some other bullshit that yanks control away from you in true Tekken fashion.
I'm no Pro.... infact I suck at DoA..... but I lose because I make wrong decisions.... not because I'm dangling in midair with no decisions to make....
if he wants guaranteed damage.... put down the controller and give it to him..... maybe he'l get bored and take his lazy tactics back to whatever one sided juggle happy game he spawned from.
And with that said.... I blame Team Ninja.....

I agree. DOA's guaranteed juggle damage is just the right amount imo. Even if you make a mistake and get stunned, you can still try to hold your opponent to avoid getting launched. DOA's hasn't that much guarantees compared to other fighting games due to your ability to hold out of stun. So if you do lose a lot of HP, it's most likely the player's own fault. Well, unless you're playing online of course.

 

[Lulu]

I agree. DOA's guaranteed juggle damage is just the right amount imo. Even if you make a mistake and get stunned, you can still try to hold your opponent to avoid getting launched. DOA's hasn't that much guarantees compared to other fighting games due to your ability to hold out of stun. So if you do lose a lot of HP, it's most likely the player's own fault. Well, unless you're playing online of course.

I really hope they do something about Tag battles because they can get pretty one sided very good quickly..... infact theres not a single defensive tag mechanic...... I know I make fun of Tekken but it does thr best Defensive Tag I can think of..... you get Tag Crashes, tag throw breaks... etc.
Hmmmm.... Tag Holds in DoA...... lol... what do you think ?

 

[KING JAIMY]

I really hope they do something about Tag battles because they can get pretty one sided very good quickly..... infact theres not a single defensive tag mechanic...... I know I make fun of Tekken but it does thr best Defensive Tag I can think of..... you get Tag Crashes, tag throw breaks... etc.
Hmmmm.... Tag Holds in DoA...... lol... what do you think ?

I just hope they increase the gravity so it's similar or identical to Solo Battles to balance things out better.

 

[TheRealCoxinator]

I just hope they increase the gravity so it's similar or identical to Solo Battles to balance things out better.

Maybe make it to where if they are being juggled and you quick switch characters then you have to do a certain combo or else it drops. That combo should end in something like a bugsplat.