I hate when people say "you should never give up!"

[Soaring Zero]

In OP's defense, I've been there before. I've been thrashed so badly in a match that I've felt like just giving up and actually have a few times. It's discouraging I know. You feel like there is nothing you can do and it's pointless to fight back right? I mean why exert the effort if it's not going to make a difference? Well it does make a difference. Unless your opponent is just a downright jackass who doesn't care either way, the simple fact of trying is respectable. At least I think so. The difference in perspective for me was playing someone much worse than I was. Someone I could demolish without trying too hard. After thinking about it the other way around; how it would feel for an opponent to just give up and let me take the win without fighting back. I wouldn't say I find it disrespectful in itself but I do find it disappointing. I play fighting games for the fun and the challenge of competing against other players. Fighting someone who isn't at least going to TRY is simply no fun. And honestly you shouldn't be so quick to give up. You're going to lose rounds, matches, etc. But ask yourself, really ask yourself, are you ok with bending over and just taking the loss? Personally, I don't care how much better my opponent is than me. If they want the win, they're gonna have to come get it themselves. I'm not simply handing it to them.

 

[Lulu]

In OP's defense, I've been there before. I've been thrashed so badly in a match that I've felt like just giving up and actually have a few times. It's discouraging I know. You feel like there is nothing you can do and it's pointless to fight back right? I mean why exert the effort if it's not going to make a difference? Well it does make a difference. Unless your opponent is just a downright jackass who doesn't care either way, the simple fact of trying is respectable. At least I think so. The difference in perspective for me was playing someone much worse than I was. Someone I could demolish without trying too hard. After thinking about it the other way around; how it would feel for an opponent to just give up and let me take the win without fighting back. I wouldn't say I find it disrespectful in itself but I do find it disappointing. I play fighting games for the fun and the challenge of competing against other players. Fighting someone who isn't at least going to TRY is simply no fun. And honestly you shouldn't be so quick to give up. You're going to lose rounds, matches, etc. But ask yourself, really ask yourself, are you ok with bending over and just taking the loss? Personally, I don't care how much better my opponent is than me. If they want the win, they're gonna have to come get it themselves. I'm not simply handing it to them.

Uhm I don't think he "felt" like there wss nothing he can do...... there are times and scenarios where there literally is nothing you can do......
To give you an Example Phase 4 has a pretty big environmental advantage on that stage.... you know in the ruins with the giant boulder......
Heres how it works..... all it takes is one mistake.... from that mistake Phase 4 can punish with unholdable stuns and a fairly short juggle... the ender to that juggle can knock you into one of those interactable..... not only does this prevent the knock down which would keep you safe but it leaves you in a sit down stun state but it resetts the gravity..... Phase 4 can follow that up with an even more powerfull juggle into a wall... the damage can go any where from 50 to 65 percent and through out this entire ordeal you will only have one maybe two oppertunities max two defend yourself...
I myself can't perform Stagger Escapes so for me theres literally nothing I can do that scenario.....
and on top of that you can clearly see the dude is doing his best to bypass any of the Mechanics that make the game fun...... he wants an easy win..... put down the controller and give it to him. Forgot about respect... that ship sailed along time ago.
As a general rule of thumb if you notice a Phase 4 or Momiji player going for Unholdable stuns all the time then that's usually an indication he's not interested in any mind games or reading your moves.... he just wants an easy win. My brother is one of those people.

 

[Soaring Zero]

That's the nature of fighting games. Players are going to exploit things and use whatever they can to their advantage. Players also have different playstyles. Hell the very nature of DOA is adapting to your opponent's style of play. It also doesn't hurt to learn how certain characters get you into unholdable stuns and learn to block/counter/avoid those situations as best you can.

Your example with Phase 4 is on a particular stage and would require a VERY situational setup for her. Something that would be very hard for her to do if you were actively trying to avoid it. Annoying to be caught in yes, but not impossible to avoid. And as far as respect goes, that tactic isn't disrespectful at all. It's a totally legit tactic. Any strategy can be countered if you take the time to learn how. And unless the Phase 4 player is exceptional skilled(which if he is relying on one trick to win his matches than he can't be that good), she is not all that difficult to deal with.

 

[SoftCabbage]

Hayabusa "poof-wham" spammer who got 9-kill-streak sent me a death threat after I beat him up.

How's that? lol

 

[Lulu]

That's the nature of fighting games. Players are going to exploit things and use whatever they can to their advantage. Players also have different playstyles. Hell the very nature of DOA is adapting to your opponent's style of play. It also doesn't hurt to learn how certain characters get you into unholdable stuns and learn to block/counter/avoid those situations as best you can.

Your example with Phase 4 is on a particular stage and would require a VERY situational setup for her. Something that would be very hard for her to do if you were actively trying to avoid it. Annoying to be caught in yes, but not impossible to avoid. And as far as respect goes, that tactic isn't disrespectful at all. It's a totally legit tactic. Any strategy can be countered if you take the time to learn how. And unless the Phase 4 player is exceptional skilled(which if he is relying on one trick to win his matches than he can't be that good), she is not all that difficult to deal with.

I know its the nature of fighting games.... specifically other fighting built from the ground up to be exploited and abused for guaranteed damage..... My point is 1) that nature is annoying 2) DoA is not the place for that nature. It goes against everything the game tries its best to reinforce that you do have have a fair amount of control....
You missed my point in the Phase 4 example...... I know I can avoid it.... I know pretty much anything theres is to know about unholdable stuns, relaunch properties, weight classes and enviromental hazards....... but me screwing up a single side step or having one of my strikes held should not take away all autonomy from me and half my health to boot.
FYI its not just Phase 4 and that one stage..... you know the game just as well as I do..... there are multiple similar scenarios and they're not really all that difficult to exploit....on an unsuspecting opponent who actually likes the mind games such as myself.... I would fall for it pretty easily because when you're not a lazy cheap skate then you don't expect others to be that way too.
I know very well how the nature of fighting games are..... its that very attitude that makes it such a massive pain in the ass for a new comer to explore the genre long enough to aquire a taste for it.....
I actually walked in on my brother and his friend once playing Injustice..... and my brother was pummeling him hard.... so I'm like: "why aren't you defending your self ?" And he's like: "I have to wait for him to finnish his combo"
The Nature of fighting games would have me believe that there's something wrong with me for finding this appalling..... or for wanting to change it.
Thats pretty shitty nature if you ask me.... I refuse to acknowledge anybody who supports this level of douchebaggery as a human being.... and I'm mildly anoyed by anyone who doesn't support but doesn't resent it either... thats just how I feel.... thats just how anybody who has ever tried Street Fighter for a short while only to get pummeled feels.... its okay to feel that Way... its okay to give up when it just isn't worth it.... thats what you're suppose to do as a normal human being who doesn't have a huge ego.
BTW.... The Danger Zone is awesome..... love that stage.

 

[Soaring Zero]

Ok I think I get it. It sounds like this is something that you have a hard time dealing with. Starting with your phase 4 example; yes she can do a ton of damage. And yes sometimes one little mistake can give her the opening she needs to do just that. But the thing is in fighting games mistakes DO get punished. Should you not be punished for making a mistake? Should your opponent NOT be rewarded for making a good read or recognizing and capitalizing on your mistake. And as far as guaranteed damage goes, that's a good thing. I certainly don't want my opponent to be able to randomly mash holds while I'm hitting them then get lucky and catch one of my attacks. That doesn't mean they were reading my attacks at all. They just got lucky. There are going to be characters and even players that don't give you many windows to make mistakes if any at all.

And combos are exactly that. Combos. You're not supposed to be able to get out of them until they are done or if your opponent drops it. I can't speak on Injustice because I've never played that game but I've played many others besides DOA and it always the same. If your opponent successfully performs a combo on you, good for them. You got caught. It happens. But you can do that stuff too you know. Learn your own combos.

 

[Lulu]

Ok I think I get it. It sounds like this is something that you have a hard time dealing with. Starting with your phase 4 example; yes she can do a ton of damage. And yes sometimes one little mistake can give her the opening she needs to do just that. But the thing is in fighting games mistakes DO get punished. Should you not be punished for making a mistake? Should your opponent NOT be rewarded for making a good read or recognizing and capitalizing on your mistake. And as far as guaranteed damage goes, that's a good thing. I certainly don't want my opponent to be able to randomly mash holds while I'm hitting them then get lucky and catch one of my attacks. That doesn't mean they were reading my attacks at all. They just got lucky. There are going to be characters and even players that don't give you many windows to make mistakes if any at all.

And combos are exactly that. Combos. You're not supposed to be able to get out of them until they are done or if your opponent drops it. I can't speak on Injustice because I've never played that game but I've played many others besides DOA and it always the same. If your opponent successfully performs a combo on you, good for them. You got caught. It happens. But you can do that stuff too you know. Learn your own combos.

I love getting punished.... I love it when some one sets me up for a high counter throw.... But the punishment should fit the mistake. The purpose of an insanely long and damage combo is not to teach you about punishment or how to play the game better..... its just an easy win..... all you learn is that you can get juggled so long that you can make a bowl ioff serial and your opponent doesn't even noticed You stopped playing ages ago. He's been juggling a dummy the whole time. Thats what happens when you only have 3 moments of actual control in the game.... it may aswel be nothing.
DoA is not like other fighting games...... except Killer Instinct ofcourse. If it was I wouldn't be playing it. It wouldn't have a hold system if they wanted it to be played like Tekken or any other fighting game where the punishment doesn't fit the mistake.

 

[Grimace]

oh my god how do I unsubscribe from this incessant whining...

 

[Soaring Zero]

Not to be mean but that is precisely what it sounds like. I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to inject reason into this anymore. DOA is what it is. Play it or not. If you hate long combos and juggles there is always street fighter.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

shit, who revived this thread again?

 

[Lulu]

Not to be mean but that is precisely what it sounds like. I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to inject reason into this anymore. DOA is what it is. Play it or not. If you hate long combos and juggles there is always street fighter.

Street Fighter has some of the shittiest defensive options I've ever experienced in a fighting game. The Combos do less damage but the underlying issue of taking away control from you is still there. It's also not Noob Friendly.

 

[TheRealCoxinator]

Sometimes it's definitely better to give up and do something else. Been playing 10 years and i'm still ass munch.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

For all the people that complain about juggles or guaranteed damage in DOA. I'd really hate to see you play any other fighting game where when you make a mistake, you're eating a half-life+ combo. A lot of DOA players do not understand or appreciate how much more forgiving DOA is compared to pretty much any other fighter. Hell, you can SE & hold your way out of so much in DOA5. In SC, VF, or Tekken, you're shit out of luck and will receive your punishment for your mistake.

 

[SoftCabbage]

Sometimes it's definitely better to give up and do something else. Been playing 10 years and i'm still ass munch.

When I see I have no chance or getting spammed in the ground and air, I'll just quit game via XMB or sign out of PSN.

Yes, I'm more 'rude' than OP, but I don't want to be a total sandsack especially for chumps who spam and for some reason, I cannot counter it while I'm standing. So it's better to save time. They'll still get their win anyway because opponent left the match, so far I know.

 

[Lulu]

For all the people that complain about juggles or guaranteed damage in DOA. I'd really hate to see you play any other fighting game where when you make a mistake, you're eating a half-life+ combo. A lot of DOA players do not understand or appreciate how much more forgiving DOA is compared to pretty much any other fighter. Hell, you can SE & hold your way out of so much in DOA5. In SC, VF, or Tekken, you're shit out of luck and will receive your punishment for your mistake.

Exactly... I don't play other fighting games where one mistake = 50% damage... I like DoA.... its an adaptable game even mid combo.
its a game you can enjoy even if you suck at it.....
Remember we're not salty because we suck.... we're salty because this is ridiculous. you know when you're playing Dark Souls and you die because of something stupid like trying to roll out of the way but you end up rolling in place because there's a tiny bump in the geometry then you die and lose all your souls and get sent back to some farway bonfire..... Tekken is the exact equivalent of that.... block at the wrong height and there goes half your wealth..... whiff an attack and there goes half your health..... get crushed and there goes half your health.
I ask you..... what type of person prefers this type of game ?

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Exactly... I don't play other fighting games where one mistake = 50% damage... I like DoA.... its an adaptable game even mid combo.
its a game you can enjoy even if you suck at it.....
Remember we're not salty because we suck.... we're salty because this is ridiculous. you know when you're playing Dark Souls and you die because of something stupid like trying to roll out of the way but you end up rolling in place because there's a tiny bump in the geometry then you die and lose all your souls and get sent back to some farway bonfire..... Tekken is the exact equivalent of that.... block at the wrong height and there goes half your wealth..... whiff an attack and there goes half your health..... get crushed and there goes half your health.
I ask you..... what type of person prefers this type of game ?

Probably about 90-95% of the FGC I reckon actually based on the popularity of games like Marvel, Tekken, SF, Injustice, MK, anime fighters, etc.

 

[Lulu]

Probably about 90-95% of the FGC I reckon actually based on the popularity of games like Marvel, Tekken, SF, Injustice, MK, anime fighters, etc.

I asked what type of person.... not how many people.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I asked what type of person.... not how many people.

And my reply implied that the average FG player likes being rewarded properly for punishing their opponents mistakes.

 

[Lulu]

And my reply implied that the average FG player likes being rewarded properly for punishing their opponents mistakes.

Yeah if I got to punch you 50 times because you blinked I would like too.... I'm sure Chess Players would love it if they got 10 freem moves if their opponent screws up.....
hell why stop at games..... I think Barcelona would jump for joy if the stipulation for a foul was the opposing team is absolutely forbidden from making a single move for 90 Seconds....
Ofcourse they like it.... its high reward for a tiny mistake..... they might aswell get rid of the combos and just transfer all that damage into the move you are doing the actual punishing with....
Sorry if I'm coming across as rude but I'm really upset about this type of thing. I don't understand it all....
Is that because I suck ? Would I be just like all the other Fighting Gamers if I was good at punishing ? just thinking about it terrifies me.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Yeah if I got to punch you 50 times because you blinked I would like too.... I'm sure Chess Players would love it if they got 10 freem moves if their opponent screws up.....
hell why stop at games..... I think Barcelona would jump for joy if the stipulation for a foul was the opposing team is absolutely forbidden from making a single move for 90 Seconds....
Ofcourse they like it.... its high reward for a tiny mistake..... they might aswell get rid of the combos and just transfer all that damage into the move you are doing the actual punishing with....
Sorry if I'm coming across as rude but I'm really upset about this type of thing. I don't understand it all....
Is that because I suck ? Would I be just like all the other Fighting Gamers if I was good at punishing ? just thinking about it terrifies me.

Believe it or not, punishment is EXTREMELY important in fighting games and easily gets overlooked. I have no problem losing a 1/3 to 1/2 my health if I make a fuck up that my opponent fully capitalized on. Especially because learning optimal punishments is not fucking easy and requires a lot of practice and training to do right. If you screw up, you'll be punished for it. Just like IRL.