When do you think DOA6 will be released and what do you want to see in it

[Lulu]

The guaranteed holds you're talking about typically last less than one-third of a second, which is far less time than it takes to roll off the ground or sit through a throw/hold animation. If you are bothered by the fact that you can't hit a button for less than one third of a second, there are far more potent obstacles for you that are presented in any game (DOA included) than the stuns you find so objectionable.

Its not the duration or even the damage that bothers me most (allthough it does annoy me alil).... its the completely one sided nature of it that I find so backwards about a competitive game....
Its like the Combo's in Street Fighter and Tekken..... in Tekken they are much longer and alot more damaging but in Street Fighter they are alot shorter and do less damage not counting Supers and Ultras..... but thet do share one thing in common, the player being compared can't do anything about it, for whatever brief moment you are being comboed you aren't playing the game.... its like scoring a point in tennis by telling the opposing player to step off the court for a second.

And as far as the "competitive" element goes, same thing I've told Argentus: It's about balancing damage packets. Functionally, there's no difference between a juggle that lasts 4 seconds and nets 80 damage than a throw that lasts 4 seconds and nets 80 damage. If you find one more aesthetically favorable, that's fine. But, you can't really argue gameplay-wise that one adds or subtracts from the competitive viability of the game when the other does the opposite. So if these stuns were affecting the competitive nature of the game, the solution would involve fixing all of the functionally similar damage packets, which would get rid of throw/hold animations as well as the environment ones (because the same principle applies to a juggle for X damage vs a wall hit for the same damage).

In my experience anything can be competitive, all you need is a game with a win condition and a lose condition and you can take that broken and unbalanced bad boy straight to Evo and that can be considered "a Competitive Game".... I mean just look at Injustice and Mortal Kombat X....

Regarding throws, the way to avoid being thrown is not altogether different from how you avoid being put into a "guaranteed stun." Both require a premeditated choice (hopefully, unless you just mash and hit buttons entirely at random, but in that case you are in no position to talk about competitive elements of the game at all) that leaves you vulnerable to certain high-damage options that last a certain amount of time while making you immune to others . Neither values or devalues the stun game more or less than the other. If strikes couldn't guarantee similar damage to throws, they would be favored far less and it would tip the stun game you seem to praise into an unbalanced territory where everyone is afraid to attack and afraid to hold.

I think there are more factors to consider when comparing strikes to throws besides damage. I know that ultimately damage is the sole deciding factor in who wins and who loses but still though, they are different. I don't think people are going to stop using strikes if you take off the guarantees.... thats the primary method of attacking even for grapplers.... and if characters didn't have all the necessary throws required to punish stuff then I would agree with the unholdable stun... but they do.... every character has a standing throw and a crouching throw so having a stun that grants them the exact same type of lockout is redundant... if this was like Virtua Fighter where only a few characters could crouch throw then giving them an indefensible stun would make much more sense.

I'm not saying it will be perfect but these things should be explored bit by bit. If nothing goes wrong then they can keep going.

 

[Argentus]

inb4 Zero Suit Samus

nononono i don't want Sarah at all lol.

6'8" amazon of a Filipino girl who who sends you flying back or crashing down with every hit, FTW.

 

[SoftCabbage]

We need more slim, fair skinned, bodysuited blondes with high pony tail with loose, side parted bangs.

Yahoo

 

[Lulu]

Literally the only problem with stagger escaping is that sometimes it'll make you crouch if you keep doing the input after you've already left stun, and that's still preventable. If the mechanics are giving you trouble you should ask around and see what advice other players can give you instead of complaining about them.

Actually if the mechanic is the one thats causing trouble then theres nothing to do but complain.... if its just the input then maybe some advice could help.

The problem with Stagger Escaping is not just the crouching thing.... its the fact that you need to start with first then waiting a while to start:f360::f360::f360:.... trying to do both simultaneously has a very high chance of you triggering a hold by accident and all that does is extend the stun you're in, the waiting also causes you to lose time meaning you can't stagger escape at the most efficient.... but again thats an execution thing.... I do have issues with that part of it aswell but thats not what my argument is about.

 

[Brute]

Its not the duration or even the damage that bothers me most (allthough it does annoy me alil).... its the completely one sided nature of it that I find so backwards about a competitive game.... [...] the player being compared can't do anything about it, for whatever brief moment you are being comboed you aren't playing the game.... its like scoring a point in tennis by telling the opposing player to step off the court for a second.

That happens in every single game, and I'm not just referring to video games. For example, in ice hockey, what's the goalie supposed to do when the puck is in the other team's zone? I guess he can skate in circles or blow bubbles, but you can twiddle your thumbs to pass the time when you're being combo'd/juggled as well. Effectively, there will always be times when it's not your turn to do something. That is an inherent quality of games that involve multiple participants. In most fighting games, those moments arise when you make a mistake and allow your opponent to take advantage of you. A throw is the same thing as a juggle, or a bound, or a KND, or a wallsplat, or whatever the case may be.

In my experience anything can be competitive,

The problem with those guaranteed stuns and guaranteed escapes is theres nothing competitive about them in the first place...

K.

I think there are more factors to consider when comparing strikes to throws besides damage. I know that ultimately damage is the sole deciding factor in who wins and who loses but still though, they are different. I don't think people are going to stop using strikes if you take off the guarantees.... thats the primary method of attacking even for grapplers.... and if characters didn't have all the necessary throws required to punish stuff then I would agree with the unholdable stun... but they do.... every character has a standing throw and a crouching throw so having a stun that grants them the exact same type of lockout is redundant... if this was like Virtua Fighter where only a few characters could crouch throw then giving them an indefensible stun would make much more sense.

I'm not saying it will be perfect but these things should be explored bit by bit. If nothing goes wrong then they can keep going.

Time-wise, a guaranteed throw for 60 damage is the same as a guaranteed stun that nets the same damage in the same time.
Gameplay balance-wise, reducing the capability of guaranteed stuns in most cases (Gen Fu exists for some reason as if to mock this concept) would result in a system that is less balanced.
You're combining these two concepts rather than looking at them intrinsically.

The only arguable critique of guaranteed stuns on principle (not specific cases) is subjectively aesthetic. And while I would still find that incredibly difficult to argue given the necessity of visual strikes which aren't that different in nature, I wouldn't be so adamant to denounce such an approach. You are still arguing, however, that there is a strong gameplay-related incentive to remove them (the "I don't like not being to hit a button for one third of a second" proposal), and logically that just does not make sense.

 

[Argentus]

We need more slim, fair skinned, bodysuited blondes with high pony tail with loose, side parted bangs.

Yahoo

I dunno, I just really liked having a huge amazon of a woman in the game. Without her armor, I kinda imagine Nicole like...Gogo from this comic series I just discovered yesterday.

Spoiler

I picture the build of the girl on the right with the hair of the girl on the left for Nicole.
But yaknow, at damn near 7 feet tall.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

I dunno, I just really liked having a huge amazon of a woman in the game. Without her armor, I kinda imagine Nicole like...Gogo from this comic series I just discovered yesterday.

Spoiler

I picture the build of the girl on the right with the hair of the girl on the left for Nicole.
But yaknow, at damn near 7 feet tall.

Problem is that a girl with such a body is not marketable for TN.

 

[Lulu]

That happens in every single game, and I'm not just referring to video games. For example, in ice hockey, what's the goalie supposed to do when the puck is in the other team's zone? I guess he can skate in circles or blow bubbles, but you can twiddle your thumbs to pass the time when you're being combo'd/juggled as well. Effectively, there will always be times when it's not your turn to do something. That is an inherent quality of games that involve multiple participants. In most fighting games, those moments arise when you make a mistake and allow your opponent to take advantage of you. A throw is the same thing as a juggle, or a bound, or a KND, or a wallsplat, or whatever the case may be.

Its a team competitive sport.... thats like asking whats Your power blow suppose to do when you don't have half health.... well it doesn't really matter what he does... he's only part of the team just like the powerblow is only part of your character. As long as the main opposing entities in the competition don't become a locked out one sided affair then all is fine.

Anyway I'm not saying you shouldn't be punished or disadvantaged for making a mistake or playing worse than the othef team... all I'm saying is whatever it is you decide to penalise the opposing team with should not turn the game from one team competing against the other team to a game where the one team competes against the elements/system while the opposing team just watches, like a conversion in Rugby... the kicker is competing against the grass and wind instead of the team they were matched with. Those guys might as well just text on their phones since they have absolutely zero influence on the Conversion.

In my experience anything can be competitive, all you need is a game with a win condition and a lose condition and you can take that broken and unbalanced bad boy straight to Evo and that can be considered "a Competitive Game".... I mean just look at Injustice and Mortal Kombat X....

K.

I was actually trying to point out how stupid competitive stuff can be.... or how competitiveness is not always a good thing.... like Chess.... its a very competitive game but it suffers from a local imbalance that's so severe that matches are lost by forfeit instead of checkmates.... this is because check mates can happen long before the actuall process of actually moving your pieces in place to capture the king. And its futile to complete the game that is lost before its even over.... and thats just a problem of local imbalance..... I think its much worse if you have a total lock out, even a temporary one.

I suppose I could have phrased it better.

Time-wise, a guaranteed throw for 60 damage is the same as a guaranteed stun that nets the same damage in the same time.
Gameplay balance-wise, reducing the capability of guaranteed stuns in most cases (Gen Fu exists for some reason as if to mock this concept) would result in a system that is less balanced.
You're combining these two concepts rather than looking at them intrinsically.

As I said before.... the part in bold would only be true if the characters could not perform the necessary throws and they would need to the ability to compensate for that with the use of unholdable stuns.... but since they do I don't think theres any balance that didn't already exist in the first place, some characters deal more damage with strikes and some deal more damage with throws..... by your logic the game is already not balanced.... since thats how the game already is.

The only arguable critique of guaranteed stuns on principle (not specific cases) is subjectively aesthetic. And while I would still find that incredibly difficult to argue given the necessity of visual strikes which aren't that different in nature, I wouldn't be so adamant to denounce such an approach. You are still arguing, however, that there is a strong gameplay-related incentive to remove them (the "I don't like not being to hit a button for one third of a second" proposal), and logically that just does not make sense.

There is... it returns the mind games to a situation what there isn't any....
Perhaps in the neutral game they are the same but when you're in a stun you can not be thrown..... if sit down stuns worked the same way then they would be identical..... however thats not the case.... the sit down stun gets triggered whether you hold or not..... the throw requires a hold to actually work. They way it is now is one is used to punishing hold and the other is used to make holds (pretty much you're only defense against stuns) impossible.... well temporarily impossible atleast.

 

[Lulu]

I dunno, I just really liked having a huge amazon of a woman in the game. Without her armor, I kinda imagine Nicole like...Gogo from this comic series I just discovered yesterday.

Spoiler

I picture the build of the girl on the right with the hair of the girl on the left for Nicole.
But yaknow, at damn near 7 feet tall.

Damn shes huge.... and yet still prettier than Rachel.... thats hard to pull off.

 

[Argentus]

Problem is that a girl with such a body is not marketable for TN.

Sad truth. Its why even the girls who should be muscular (Tina, Mila, Rachel, Lisa) are just as soft looking as the others. Honestly they should be more toned like Vanessa from VF.

Damn shes huge.... and yet still prettier than Rachel.... thats hard to pull off.

Not really lol. At least not with rachel's hair up. But yes, Gogo is very pretty. In a very intimidating way.

But yeah. Her "sister" is more my type (the one with the short hair).

Hell, one picture of her sister actually looks just like Mila and had me drooling.

Spoiler

But the point was that Nicole could be brought back like the big girl. Keep the persona, and fighting style (God I miss her long reaching delayed strikes. almost no low attacks though lol.), just ditch the armor and retcon her as MIST soldier or something. Project Delta, I dunno.

 

[Lulu]

Sad truth. Its why even the girls who should be muscular (Tina, Mila, Rachel, Lisa) are just as soft looking as the others. Honestly they should be more toned like Vanessa from VF.


Not really lol. At least not with rachel's hair up. But yes, Gogo is very pretty. In a very intimidating way.

But yeah. Her "sister" is more my type (the one with the short hair).

Hell, one picture of her sister actually looks just like Mila and had me drooling.

Spoiler

But the point was that Nicole could be brought back like the big girl. Keep the persona, and fighting style (God I miss her long reaching delayed strikes. almost no low attacks though lol.), just ditch the armor and retcon her as MIST soldier or something. Project Delta, I dunno.

LoL..... nope...I like'em big and strong... I think Gogo is prettier..... in a very handsome way.

 

[Argentus]

LoL..... nope...I like'em big and strong... I think Gogo is prettier..... in a very handsome way.

yeah Nicole should come back like that. I still say with the Major Kusanagi style hair though.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

It's not mashing. Just holding H while spinning circles. That's not mashing whatsoever.

Sorry but no, no matter how you see it, when a certain mechanic specifically rewards you for pressing buttons as fast as possible in some way, call it what you want, but it's still mashing.

That's why people come up with anti-slow escape setups... slow escaping doesn't always make you invulnerable to the next strike.

I'm talking about the physical effort required to do it which will get you fucking tendinitis or something.

In general, I don't see how people want to have Slow Escaping removed in DOA6. It's just taking out a defensive mechanic out of the game just because people can't adapt to it. It's been there since at least DOA4 (can't remember if it's been there in earlier DOA's). In fact, slow escaping deems some setups not guaranteed which would be guaranteed if the opponent did not slow escape. Without slow escaping, DOA would be pretty broken imo.

"Can't adapt to it" is not my reason, my reasoning is that it's stupid. DOA3 and DOA2U both had it, not sure about the previous ones.

 

[HHH816]

hmm.. what i wish for

DOA5LR costume can be brought to DOA6 (save money)

stages with weather system like the witcher 3 wild hunt

refine version of the model.

wish the opponent drop K.O d like a wood after the last round. DOA2 player knew this

 

[SoftCabbage]

I dunno, I just really liked having a huge amazon of a woman in the game. Without her armor, I kinda imagine Nicole like...Gogo from this comic series I just discovered yesterday.

What you will get is tanned Tina.

DOA5LR costume can be brought to DOA6 (save money)

They even sell old designs as DLC. I don't think they'd just let you go with stacks of costumes from 5LR.

 

[HHH816]

They even sell old designs as DLC. I don't think they'd just let you go with stacks of costumes from 5LR.

yeah

 

[Argentus]

What you will get is tanned Tina.

Sad but true.

 

[SoftCabbage]

^ Sad post combo. lol

 

[KING JAIMY]

Sorry but no, no matter how you see it, when a certain mechanic specifically rewards you for pressing buttons as fast as possible in some way, call it what you want, but it's still mashing.

I'm talking about the physical effort required to do it which will get you fucking tendinitis or something.

"Can't adapt to it" is not my reason, my reasoning is that it's stupid. DOA3 and DOA2U both had it, not sure about the previous ones.

Fair enough, but you are talking about removing a core mechanic in the game. Can you imagine how unplayable DOA would be without the slow escaping mechanic? Let me do Jann Lee's H+K sit-down stun. BAM, Critical Burst! Let me do Rig's Bending Stance KK6K. BAM, Critical Burst! Like seriously, what are you thinking? Who cares if you need to mash buttons or not? Gotta make some kind of effort to reduce the amount of hitstun. Actually, what would be your recommendation as a replacement of the slow escaping mechanic? Because the entire removal of it would be even more stupid than the way you call it now.

 

[Brute]

Fair enough, but you are talking about removing a core mechanic in the game. Can you imagine how unplayable DOA would be without the slow escaping mechanic? Let me do Jann Lee's H+K sit-down stun. BAM, Critical Burst! Let me do Rig's Bending Stance KK6K. BAM, Critical Burst! Like seriously, what are you thinking? Who cares if you need to mash buttons or not? Gotta make some kind of effort to reduce the amount of hitstun. Actually, what would be your recommendation as a replacement of the slow escaping mechanic? Because the entire removal of it would be even more stupid than the way you call it now.

With slow escaping gone, it's perfectly plausible in the hypothetical that the default stun periods would be equivalent to a fastest stagger escape rather than no stagger escape (or literally anything in-between). Nothing would suggest that all of that stuff would inevitably become guaranteed just because they removed a derpy system where you roll your directional rotation in circles because someone thought that contributed to "mind games" or "execution skill" (ie: someone thought that stagger escaping would be cool in DOA just because it's in VF).