DOA6 Story Discussion

[P2p1mbs]

Fine:

*Well, to be fair, just going by the actual cutscenes, it's left ambiguous as to whether the girls ever actually interact with each other at all in that game.

*Let's not forget, unlike in DOAX1 or DOAX2, which not only had Be Friendly gravures where the girls explicitly interact with each other, but choosing a partner actually has a cutscene where they talk to each other (case in point, the scene where Lisa teases Helena about Zack having romances in the deepest parts of space in reference to Helena's invite in DOAX2 involving bringing peace to the galaxy via DOATEC if you either choose Helena or Lisa as your partner and you're playing as vice versa.), DOAX3 actually lacks any character interactions between the girls in gravures, heck, even any cutscenes where the girls interact if you choose them as a partner. In fact, the closest thing to their having any interactions is during gameplay regarding various minigames.

*And that's not even getting into how the opening and endings for each of the girls heavily implied that, barring the Owner obviously, they're completely alone during that vacation (for example, Marie Rose is hesitant to leave Helena after she dismissed her from her duties, and Ayane in her ending makes very clear she could not find ANY trace of Kasumi on the island despite the intel.).

*Not to say I even approve of DOAX3 as being canon, especially when DOAX3 has many problems of its own (for starters, aside from gutting a lot of stuff from past Xtreme games, it also made some characters regress in development, like for example Ayane. I thought she buried the hatchet with Kasumi, so why the heck would she still be trying to hunt Kasumi down in that game, even if it WAS just an excuse to take a vacation?). But nevertheless, you'd need more than that to claim it's non-canon. Now, if DOAX3 had actual character interactions BESIDES gameplay-related like be friendly gravures and/or any cutscenes that play when choosing a partner, then you might be on to something.

Hope that's bullet pointed enough for you.

Your paragraphs are still too long . Summarize each paragraph with just one sentence saying the main point pls. I can't find the main idea of what you are trying to say.

 

[otnesse]

Your paragraphs are still too long . Summarize each paragraph with just one sentence saying the main point pls. I can't find the main idea of what you are trying to say.

Alright. Long and the short is, there are a few elements that DOAX3 does that would hint at the girls not interacting with each other, heck, may even be the only actual people on the island besides the Owner barring gameplay. Namely:

*No be friendly gravures in DOAX3, which were prevalent in DOAX2 and DOAX1.

*No cutscenes that play for selecting a partner where the girls talk with each other, which DOAX2 had bare minimum.

*Some of the openings and endings for each girl seemed to imply that they were the sole girl at the island (namely, Ayane failed to find any trace of Kasumi despite her reason for even being at the island at all was to try and verify if she was on the island in her ending, or how Marie Rose's opening had her being hesitant to even consider being on vacation by herself, even if it was at Helena's request).

This is as close to summarization as I can give.

 

[Addictrian]

Story is shitty

Always the same clones everywhere ! I mean Maria =? Come on . .......We should get Donovan and Miyako in the Game already . We need new Characters like a new ninja pupil of Hayate .

Some new Creations not all the same Storyline for years.

 

[otnesse]

Story is shitty

Always the same clones everywhere ! I mean Maria =? Come on . .......We should get Donovan and Miyako in the Game already . We need new Characters like a new ninja pupil of Hayate .

Some new Creations not all the same Storyline for years.

To be fair, we WOULD have gotten a new storyline involving Phase 4 and presumably taking down Donovan had 1., they actually added story updates for DOA5U and DOA5LR, and 2., Shimbori not been a massive idiot with DOA6's marketing. Besides, reviving Raidou is a bit of a twist to the story.

 

[Cabecote]

Not really. Probably the only real retcon was Genra being revealed to have been evil from the start and maybe Kasumi having some help in defeating Raidou. Everything else was largely as is.

And I'm pretty sure the DOAX games weren't retconned, since Lisa's still in the series.

Have you read the DOA6 Encyclopedia entries? It seems they might have reconnected it again to Genra not being evil, but manipulated by DOATEC. So following the original lore, and not the Dimensions' one...

I think you continue to overestimate Xtreme's importance to the overall series canon, the games are equivalent to anime fillers...
One thing is collecting all lore tidbits for a wikia page, which I agree is the way to proceed, but you keep talking about how "Honoka was already friend's with Marie" and other "allegedly contradicting" info that was in VV interactions, but the reality is that of course it doesn't have big stakes on the fighting/main series story, and that's why the devs ignore, and most likely will keep ignoring whatever happens there when making their story modes.
They were always presented as fanservice spin-offs!

For this not to get too off-topic, it seems the main series right now follows this line of importance:

A) Info from DOA 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6
B) Info from DOA Ultimate
C) Info from DOA Dimensions
D) Info from DOA X, 2, 3 & VV

I guess as long as block-D's interactions don't contradict or create plot-holes regarding info from block-A, sure, call them canon with all your breath!

 

[otnesse]

Have you read the DOA6 Encyclopedia entries? It seems they might have reconnected it again to Genra not being evil, but manipulated by DOATEC. So following the original lore, and not the Dimensions' one...

I think you continue to overestimate Xtreme's importance to the overall series canon, the games are equivalent to anime fillers...
One thing is collecting all lore tidbits for a wikia page, which I agree is the way to proceed, but you keep talking about how "Honoka was already friend's with Marie" and other "allegedly contradicting" info that was in VV interactions, but the reality is that of course it doesn't have big stakes on the fighting/main series story, and that's why the devs ignore, and most likely will keep ignoring whatever happens there when making their story modes.
They were always presented as fanservice spin-offs!

For this not to get too off-topic, it seems the main series right now follows this line of importance:

A) Info from DOA 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6
B) Info from DOA Ultimate
C) Info from DOA Dimensions
D) Info from DOA X, 2, 3 & VV

I guess as long as block-D's interactions don't contradict or create plot-holes regarding info from block-A, sure, call them canon with all your breath!

Of course I've read the DOA6 Encyclopedia entries, why do you THINK I said DOA6 re-retconned the bit about Genra in one of my earlier posts?

And just as an FYI, even if we ignore DOAXVV, Honoka and Marie Rose already were friends in DOA5LR anyways (or did you completely forget their tag team interactions in that game?), yet DOA6 contradicted even that. And I might as well point out that Kasumi's ending for DOA4 showed her staying at the Moonlight Reef Suite (and that was before Xtreme 2 formally debuted it), so that definitely points to DOAX2 being C or B level at the very least. And don't get me started on how DOAX1 introduced Lisa and Nikki, the former of whom became a mainstay fighter starting with 4 and a major character in her own right, and the latter even appeared in DOA4 and DOA5 in some capacity.

Using your logic, DOA5 pretty much is B or C level canon, especially with Honoka, Marie Rose, and Nyotengu, maybe even Phase 4 as well since they've largely forgotten the prototype's existence.

 

[Dionysus]

DOA6’s story was meant to be added to LR along with Marie and Honoka. Those tag interactions should be regarded as taking place in DOA6. Same with the presence of Raidou.

 

[otnesse]

DOA6’s story was meant to be added to LR along with Marie and Honoka. Those tag interactions should be regarded as taking place in DOA6. Same with the presence of Raidou.

Well, they shouldn't have had the 6th tournament then, state they're continuing the fifth tournament, maybe also have Diego fight Jann Lee BEFORE the latter fought Hitomi, and they certainly should have excised Tina's conversation with Zack where she was effectively forced to drop her governor goal due to being too young to run for office (not to mention effectively leave her without any goal for her to strive for in its place).

 

[Dionysus]

Probably they added the new tournament in in a rush which explains why it’s not clear what actually happens in it. But the tag interactions are still clearly holdovers from that early stage of the 6 Raidou storyline. Treating them as canon outside of that context is nonsensical.

Something being in a game doesn’t make it canon, that’s a simple vision that doesn’t correspond to the vagaries of game development in reality. There’s holdovers, reused content, stuff like this.

For instance, the Kasumi ending with the suite probably has more to do with wanting a kind of location and realising they could reuse their in development assets rather than build something from scratch. It isn’t a secret message about the canonical of X2.

 

[otnesse]

Probably they added the new tournament in in a rush which explains why it’s not clear what actually happens in it. But the tag interactions are still clearly holdovers from that early stage of the 6 Raidou storyline. Treating them as canon outside of that context is nonsensical.

Something being in a game doesn’t make it canon, that’s a simple vision that doesn’t correspond to the vagaries of game development in reality. There’s holdovers, reused content, stuff like this.

For instance, the Kasumi ending with the suite probably has more to do with wanting a kind of location and realising they could reuse their in development assets rather than build something from scratch. It isn’t a secret message about the canonical of X2.

Let's not forget that DOA5LR was released in 2015, not to mention announced to the public in 2014, and that DOA6 wasn't even formally announced to the public until 2018, with the only thing even hinted at regarding development during that time was DOAX3 and DOAXVV. There's very little to indicate that they were holding over from DOA6 when they did that (not to mention, if that were the case, don't you think they would have... I don't know, added story DLC to the game that gives the add-ons a more proper introduction? That would have been a lot more simpler and better off than doing DOA6, which can't seem to even decide whether it's during or after DOA5. Team Ninja certainly has been proven to be capable of story DLC with both Hyrule Warriors AND DOA6.).

As far as something being in a game not making it canon, ah, the entire POINT of canon is stating it happened and having direct evidence that it did happen. There wouldn't even be a point to adding them in at all if they weren't canon in the first place. After all, as proof Ghost Babel isn't canon, Chris Jenner isn't even so much as referenced in any of the Metal Gear games.

Also, Dead or Alive Xtreme 2, while announced shortly after Dead or Alive 4's release, hadn't actually entered development yet, certainly not to the scale that they had a fully-working room for her ending. It can't have been reused for DOA4. And it's not like they couldn't have just, I don't know, reused the location Kokoro was at in her ending. Would have communicated the exact same message, either way.

 

[Cabecote]

I updated the game to the newer version, Momiji doesn't have story cutscenes? Were Kula/Mai ones available at release, or at a later date??

 

[KasumiLover]

I updated the game to the newer version, Momiji doesn't have story cutscenes? Were Kula/Mai ones available at release, or at a later date??

When they were released as DLC, the stories didn't exist since we didn't know they would be returning guests until after the game first dropped after one of the first tourney events. And yeah Momiji doesn't have any story scenes at all

 

[Onryoki]

I updated the game to the newer version, Momiji doesn't have story cutscenes? Were Kula/Mai ones available at release, or at a later date??

Momiji doesn’t have a story scene, I doubt she’ll get one if I’m honest.

 

[otnesse]

I updated the game to the newer version, Momiji doesn't have story cutscenes? Were Kula/Mai ones available at release, or at a later date??

Unfortunately, she doesn't. And this just seems to be a very big dropping of the ball on TN's part. Even ignoring the fact that Kula/Mai's stories were indeed available upon release (Gatto Tom even showed the stories as soon as the DLC was released), Nyotengu and Phase 4 also got story entries (well, kind of regarding the latter... It was mostly composed of them ambushing Kasumi before being driven off by Ryu Hayabusa). Momiji debuted in DOA5U (well, regarding DOA games, anyways), and right now, the closest she's got to ANY story at all is in the Xtreme games. Like I said, they dropped the ball, especially when one of the few good things about DOA6 is that they actually DID provide DLC stories to properly introduce characters. They ought to at LEAST do the same for Momiji.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

According to me, Momiji was not planned to be released that soon. So they didn't have time to produce scenes for her. They just threw her at us when they saw people complaining + to boost the sales.

Kula and Mai were planned but probably delayed.

Nyotengu and Phase 4 were planned from the beginning but eventually "used" as bonus content. Phase 4 I can understand, Nyotengu not so much as she is part of the franchise now. Maybe TN wanted to make a parallel to Tekken's Eliza who was also a bonus character.

Leon/Gen Fu will (probably) have cutscenes as they were (probably) planned but not prioritized. Plus, they ARE in the DOA Trivia, where Momiji is (still) not.

I WISH SOMEONE COULD HACK THESE 30+ STORY SCENES THAT WERE CUT. SOMEONE.

So yeah, except for Nyotengu who had cool moments in the story, the rest is just... meh. Momiji has none, Kula and Mai (who I don't care about) only have promotional scenes and Phase 4 is not an unique character. Hopefully Leon (and Gen Fu maybe) will have good moments as well. Last time was DOA4...DOA3 maybe? I'm curious because there is so much potential.

 

[Onryoki]

According to me, Momiji was not planned to be released that soon. So they didn't have time to produce scenes for her. They just threw her at us when they saw people complaining + to boost the sales.

Kula and Mai were planned but probably delayed.

Nyotengu and Phase 4 were planned from the beginning but eventually "used" as bonus content. Phase 4 I can understand, Nyotengu not so much as she is part of the franchise now. Maybe TN wanted to make a parallel to Tekken's Eliza who was also a bonus character.

Leon/Gen Fu will (probably) have cutscenes as they were (probably) planned but not prioritized. Plus, they ARE in the DOA Trivia, where Momiji is (still) not.

I WISH SOMEONE COULD HACK THESE 30+ STORY SCENES THAT WERE CUT. SOMEONE.

So yeah, except for Nyotengu who had cool moments in the story, the rest is just... meh. Momiji has none, Kula and Mai (who I don't care about) only have promotional scenes and Phase 4 is not an unique character. Hopefully Leon (and Gen Fu maybe) will have good moments as well. Last time was DOA4...DOA3 maybe? I'm curious because there is so much potential.

Actually, the phase 4 we’ve seen in the story of 6 is actually not the ‘cloaked one’. The cloaked one that attacked Bayman and actually has a personality and identity is nowhere to be found.

 

[Dr PaC]

So question. Since we find out that Honoka and Ayane are sisters, does that mean she's also related to Hayate and Kas now?? Is she technically a Mugen Tenshin clanswoman? Or am I trippin? *I feel you Ayane*

 

[KasumiLover]

View attachment 29424
So question. Since we find out that Honoka and Ayane are sisters, does that mean she's also related to Hayate and Kas now?? Is she technically a Mugen Tenshin clanswoman? Or am I trippin? *I fell you Ayane*

I love that comic xD and I don't think so since Raidou has no connection to Kasumi and Hayate, she's sisters with Ayane since they have the same father but besides that nothing else, Kasumi and Hayate are really only related to Ayane since they have the same mother but as far as Raidou and Honoka, there's no connection besides Raidou being Kasumi and Hayate's uncle

 

[Dr PaC]

I love that comic xD and I don't think so since Raidou has no connection to Kasumi and Hayate, she's sisters with Ayane since they have the same father but besides that nothing else, Kasumi and Hayate are really only related to Ayane since they have the same mother but as far as Raidou and Honoka, there's no connection besides Raidou being Kasumi and Hayate's uncle

Ah! Ok, cool. I was getting worried for a sec that poor Kas would be tied down to this "child" too. Especially after Honoka said she felt like Kasumi was a big sister to her in the Warriors All Stars game. (even if its non canon, it still caused me worry, lol)

 

[otnesse]

According to me, Momiji was not planned to be released that soon. So they didn't have time to produce scenes for her. They just threw her at us when they saw people complaining + to boost the sales.

Kula and Mai were planned but probably delayed.

Nyotengu and Phase 4 were planned from the beginning but eventually "used" as bonus content. Phase 4 I can understand, Nyotengu not so much as she is part of the franchise now. Maybe TN wanted to make a parallel to Tekken's Eliza who was also a bonus character.

Leon/Gen Fu will (probably) have cutscenes as they were (probably) planned but not prioritized. Plus, they ARE in the DOA Trivia, where Momiji is (still) not.

I WISH SOMEONE COULD HACK THESE 30+ STORY SCENES THAT WERE CUT. SOMEONE.

So yeah, except for Nyotengu who had cool moments in the story, the rest is just... meh. Momiji has none, Kula and Mai (who I don't care about) only have promotional scenes and Phase 4 is not an unique character. Hopefully Leon (and Gen Fu maybe) will have good moments as well. Last time was DOA4...DOA3 maybe? I'm curious because there is so much potential.

Was there anything dummied out that pointed to Irene Lew being playable? After all, she was mentioned in the trivia and even got a full-fledged bio.