DOA6 Story Discussion

[DestructionBomb]

I've been playing DOA since it started, and I've been writing about it since I was 14 (definitely longer than you).

You've been playing since the first game and you still haven't found anything wrong lololol. Sounds exactly like blind optimism, pure indoctrination, or better yet, just damn oblivious lol. No surprise here.

Obviously there isn't anything wrong, clearly it's the perfect ultimate fighter with a AAA quality story.

Spoiler

Sike, you thought. Cool try though.

Truth is, I've proved you wrong before, caught you saying so many odd things that I can't keep up with it anymore. Your "improvements" to the story are ones that I definitely disagree with and I have enjoyed the story.

Oh. Cool story.

You think I don't play other games? Maybe I should send you pictures of my game collection... when I had the time I played every fighting game there was so yeah I don't like Tekken because I've played Tekken and determined it's bad.

This isn't solely for Tekken. It's fighting games in general when it comes to story. SC, SF, MK, and so on. Aris isn't here to tickle your testicles so relax. Even Tekken's story is terrible (sometimes).

No one gives a damn if you played them for only like 8 seconds. You have to find information as to why those games provide a better output. If you haven't went through those obstacles or look the game up from start to finish, how exactly would you know on what's better? just by looking at a game cover and say "yeah this game sucks, DOA is better"?

Clearly you are a master at knowing perfect art at a museum.

Spoiler

Sike, you thought.

Anyways I stopped reading since the rest is probably mindless typical shit. Just keep being the newsman as usual, it's ok lol.

-----------------------------

He wants you to explain why DOA’s “abysmal” plot is better than some of the other stories people wrote.

I personally didn’t enjoy the story of 6 because it felt more like a compilation of random clips than a consistent story.

Now you get me : )

Yeah DOA6 story was atrocious. It was literally the magical adventures of Marie Rose and Honoka. Not all of it, but it was pretty forced and took most spotlights. It wasn't until the end where it stopped being a thing (kinda?)

 

[otnesse]

Obviously there isn't anything wrong, clearly it's the perfect ultimate fighter with a AAA quality story.

I realize you're being sarcastic with that remark, but if I must be honest, DOA's story, all of the games I should add, certainly deserves the descriptor of AAA-quality story far more than Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, or, heck, any Kojima-made Metal Gear game barring maybe MGS1 and MGS3. That was such an unfinished mess of a story that even the likes of ET's Atari game came far closer to being an AAA-quality story, let alone the various Dead or Alive entries combined (and yes, I'd even argue DOA6's story was better ultimately than MGSV's story, that's how badly I thought of that game's story). And I'd know, aside from watching the story for DOA6 online, I also played MGSV and knew first hand what that steaming pile of a story was like.

Yeah DOA6 story was atrocious. It was literally the magical adventures of Marie Rose and Honoka. Not all of it, but it was pretty forced and took most spotlights. It wasn't until the end where it stopped being a thing (kinda?)

Eh, quite frankly, I didn't mind the Honoka and Marie Rose bits too much. Probably my only real complaint about them was the massive retcon they did with their friendship by having them meet for the first time (the prior games implied that they were BFFs since at least the fifth tournament). Besides, I kind of realized Honoka getting the spotlight was inevitably going to happen especially considering that they already not only heavily implied that she's Raidou's daughter, but also had the reveal in DOA5LR that he's back from the dead.

I was irritated however at how the story was something that they should have used as DLC for DOA5U/DOA5LR, especially when that game already hinted that they needed to find Phase 4 stat. I also wasn't fond of how Tina was mishandled in that game. Barring her beating Honoka in a free fight and being impressed with her fighting style, as well as her interactions with Lisa at one point, she was not done well, especially when they had her giving up her governor goal for the most stupid reason that actually came across as extremely out of character for her (I'm sorry, but you really expect me to believe that when she formed her goal, she completely overlooked... oh, I don't know, that she needed to WAIT a few years before she was eligible to run for office?), and what's worse, they didn't even bother giving her an actual new goal she sought to achieve, something she's done in past games. Instead, she's basically doing a tag team wrestling gig with her dad, which is probably the closest thing she has to an actual goal. Probably the only good thing out of the story is that at least Tina didn't get the Chris Redfield treatment where she was randomly turned into an anti-American socialist, or worse, made evil just because she was patriotic, which giving Shimbori's more SJW adherence, I almost expected him to do that (especially when he and Tom Lee implied before Tina was unveiled that Diego effectively replaced Tina and her father regarding representing American sensibilities). Not to mention Hitomi just got humiliated by Diego, and that was despite DOAX3's ending for her strongly implying she was actually going to win the next tournament, and worse, apparently did even worse than before. And they barely even had Phase 4 at all, just mass produced copies, none of whom even spoke.

 

[Onryoki]

I've been playing DOA since it started, and I've been writing about it since I was 14 (definitely longer than you). You act like you know everything and that's the sad thing about you. Truth is, I've proved you wrong before, caught you saying so many odd things that I can't keep up with it anymore. Your "improvements" to the story are ones that I definitely disagree with and I have enjoyed the story.

You think I don't play other games? Maybe I should send you pictures of my game collection... when I had the time I played every fighting game there was so yeah I don't like Tekken because I've played Tekken and determined it's bad.

The sad thing is we have had this argument before... likely in this thread. I explained all of my reasons before you just don't listen... and because of your brain-dead memes and you think you are good I guess that means that you don't have to listen to other people.

Your "improvements" are subjective, the original story isn't going to change... and everyone with half a brain knows that DOA5 + DOA6 story have nothing on the original Itagaki narrative. I will just assume that your hate for Itagaki is coming into play with that comment.

If you really want me to do this again I will, but come on. Just give it a rest. You're not cool because you piss on the story.... k? And for somebody that brings up research, you don't do a lot of it clearly. I don't have anything to prove to you and never will.

Let me know exactly what you want me to explain again and I will do it. I don't think anything is wrong with the cloning story so I will stamp that out. Makes perfect sense for a fighting game.

You've been playing since the first game and you still haven't found anything wrong lololol. Sounds exactly like blind optimism, pure indoctrination, or better yet, just damn oblivious lol. No surprise here.

Obviously there isn't anything wrong, clearly it's the perfect ultimate fighter with a AAA quality story.

Spoiler

Sike, you thought. Cool try though.

Oh. Cool story.



This isn't solely for Tekken. It's fighting games in general when it comes to story. SC, SF, MK, and so on. Aris isn't here to tickle your testicles so relax. Even Tekken's story is terrible (sometimes).

No one gives a damn if you played them for only like 8 seconds. You have to find information as to why those games provide a better output. If you haven't went through those obstacles or look the game up from start to finish, how exactly would you know on what's better? just by looking at a game cover and say "yeah this game sucks, DOA is better"?

Clearly you are a master at knowing perfect art at a museum.

Spoiler

Sike, you thought.

Anyways I stopped reading since the rest is probably mindless typical shit. Just keep being the newsman as usual, it's ok lol.

-----------------------------




Now you get me : )

Yeah DOA6 story was atrocious. It was literally the magical adventures of Marie Rose and Honoka. Not all of it, but it was pretty forced and took most spotlights. It wasn't until the end where it stopped being a thing (kinda?)

Y’all need to stop being shady towards each other. It’s really not cute, and DB, you’re just a security guard so why are trying to act cute? You act like being a newsman is nothing. I honestly expected better from someone like you tbh, but whatever lol. Same goes for you DOAN. This whole argument between you 2 is stupid. 1 likes the story and 1 don’t, just agree that y’all disagree and let this stupid argument die.

 

[candynarwhal]

Shimbori's more SJW adherence

The only thing Shimbori has done, with regards to DOA's direction, is flip-flop like every Ayane I've ever fought online - 7P for days, lmao. The last thing we've seen from him is any kind of "adherence" to a given design choice.

Remember, this was the case with DOA5 as well. "I'm a fighter," until the Japanese fanbase threw a tantrum about it, and then we got 7 season passes worth of fetish outfits.

I find the whole "Core Values" thing sad only because TN were making such a big point of pushing DOA6 for EVO - and then they went ahead and ruined it for themselves with unnecessary boob gags...

They should've known better, is all I'm saying. It's served nobody, so far, for them to have gone this much back-and-forth on the sexual aspect.

Whatever decision they made, if they were to make one that is, I would respect. Whether that's to stylize the games in a more "serious" way, or to stick to earnest fan service.

Let's not forget DOA6's launch completely failed because of their lacking commitment to either direction. It's killing the franchise.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Y’all need to stop being shady towards each other. It’s really not cute, and DB, you’re just a security guard so why are trying to act cute? You act like being a newsman is nothing. I honestly expected better from someone like you tbh, but whatever lol. Same goes for you DOAN. This whole argument between you 2 is stupid. 1 likes the story and 1 don’t, just agree that y’all disagree and let this stupid argument die.

Sit down, again this topic was long over.

I do not need any of your expectations when I contributed far enough to know what I put on the table. What you see is what you get. If you do not provide to what the topic is about then stop posting and quoting. Let the main topic continue. Becoming like a sort of level 2 peacekeeper gives you no credibility. Stay on topic then. When I check that red blip i'd hope to read some posts that isn't your general shitposting but so far Otnesse is trying at least.

If you truly want to be a peacekeeper, then do not respond to that debate. Proceed to the main topic at hand. That's a moderator's job, not yours.

 

[otnesse]

The only thing Shimbori has done, with regards to DOA's direction, is flip-flop like every Ayane I've ever fought online - 7P for days, lmao. The last thing we've seen from him is any kind of "adherence" to a given design choice.

Remember, this was the case with DOA5 as well. "I'm a fighter," until the Japanese fanbase threw a tantrum about it, and then we got 7 season passes worth of fetish outfits.

I find the whole "Core Values" thing sad only because TN were making such a big point of pushing DOA6 for EVO - and then they went ahead and ruined it for themselves with unnecessary boob gags...

They should've known better, is all I'm saying. It's served nobody, so far, for them to have gone this much back-and-forth on the sexual aspect.

Whatever decision they made, if they were to make one that is, I would respect. Whether that's to stylize the games in a more "serious" way, or to stick to earnest fan service.

Let's not forget DOA6's launch completely failed because of their lacking commitment to either direction. It's killing the franchise.

Well, aside from him implying that women who are naturally well-endowed are considered inhuman, or the fact that he based the recent designs in DOA6 on the worst elements of Marvel Comics' current lineup (which includes outright duds), there's also the fact that he and Tom Lee in an interview pretty much implied that the main reason they created Diego was to appeal to "American sensibilities" by adding in a Latino character. Give Hispanic representation, if I recall correctly (and why do we even need "representation" anyway, especially regarding Hispanics? Last I checked, they've already got plenty of Hispanics in the form of Lisa and technically Mila, the latter of whom is a Spaniard). Here's the interview in question:

Dead Or Alive 6 Is Less Sexualized, And More Esports

archived 5 Aug 2018 01:04:36 UTC

archive.fo

It also didn't help that KT's twitter feed regarding Diego heavily implied that he was gay.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Well, aside from him implying that women who are naturally well-endowed are considered inhuman, or the fact that he based the recent designs in DOA6 on the worst elements of Marvel Comics' current lineup (which includes outright duds), there's also the fact that he and Tom Lee in an interview pretty much implied that the main reason they created Diego was to appeal to "American sensibilities" by adding in a Latino character. Give Hispanic representation, if I recall correctly (and why do we even need "representation" anyway, especially regarding Hispanics? Last I checked, they've already got plenty of Hispanics in the form of Lisa and technically Mila, the latter of whom is a Spaniard). Here's the interview in question:

Dead Or Alive 6 Is Less Sexualized, And More Esports

archived 5 Aug 2018 01:04:36 UTC

archive.fo

Originally I just took it as a meme about the whole "appeals to the western audience" regarding Diego, and yet Diego seems like the pure epitome to TN's laziness when creating him. He also seems forced (imo on this one) but eh, pretty debatable yeah.

It was a pretty cool idea about needing the money to help his family or something, forgot what it was. He did have a sort of wholesome scene with Mila which I thought it was pretty alright.

 

[Onryoki]

I hope DOA does cinematic fights like these in the future, it would be pretty epic.

 

[otnesse]

Originally I just took it as a meme about the whole "appeals to the western audience" regarding Diego, and yet Diego seems like the pure epitome to TN's laziness when creating him. He also seems forced but eh, pretty debatable yeah.

It was a pretty cool idea about needing the money to help his family or something, forgot what it was. He did have a sort of wholesome scene with Mila.

Well, to be fair, I actually did like the motive Diego had regarding helping his mom. It was similar to Gen Fu's motives in the earlier games. I've always been a bit of a sucker for family values stuff. That's probably one reason why I thought DOA's story was ultimately better than Metal Gear's story. Unfortunately, they blew it when some twitter user talked with the PR guy at KT and they both strongly implied that he was gay.

Still, his scene with Mila was actually very good, probably one of the few good things about the game.

 

[candynarwhal]

Well, aside from him implying that women who are naturally well-endowed are considered inhuman, or the fact that he based the recent designs in DOA6 on the worst elements of Marvel Comics' current lineup (which includes outright duds), there's also the fact that he and Tom Lee in an interview pretty much implied that the main reason they created Diego was to appeal to "American sensibilities" by adding in a Latino character. Give Hispanic representation, if I recall correctly (and why do we even need "representation" anyway, especially regarding Hispanics? Last I checked, they've already got plenty of Hispanics in the form of Lisa and technically Mila, the latter of whom is a Spaniard). Here's the interview in question:

Dead Or Alive 6 Is Less Sexualized, And More Esports

archived 5 Aug 2018 01:04:36 UTC

archive.fo

His "inhuman" comment was a mistranslation, this was discussed at length pre-release. I don't know anything about them basing character designs on current iterations of Marvel characters, and that's all taste anyway, so that's neither here nor there.

As far as Diego is concerned, it is true that he was created to appeal more to the Western audience - but I believe it's also on record that NiCO was created for the same reason. That is, to appeal to the Japanese audience. The idea was to give everyone a character they'd be able to appreciate.

Either way, with Diego, we have one more Hispanic character. I don't see what the problem is. We have Lisa (well, I'd argue she's black, but whatever) and Mila, too. Just as we have, you know, several other characters hailing from the same countries. Maybe it has less to do with "representation" and more to do with just having variety, which you and I both know DOA needs in its current state. Just a thought.

If the argument is that his inclusion was forced due to political correctness - was it not also a "crime" for them to have introduced a gothic lolita to the series, because that was the "in" thing at the time DOA5U hit arcades? Or was that different, somehow, because people didn't infer political motives, then?

I think it's very tenuous to assume that everything must have to do with, you know, the zeitgeist. TN have very clearly proven to us that they can barely keep up with themselves, as it is...

EDIT: Does anyone have Shimbori's "inhuman" quote in the original Japanese? I did take Japanese at university for about two years - I'd be interested in trying to translate what he said, myself...

 

[otnesse]

His "inhuman" comment was a mistranslation, this was discussed at length pre-release. I don't know anything about them basing character designs on current iterations of Marvel characters, and that's all taste anyway, so that's neither here nor there.

As far as Diego is concerned, it is true that he was created to appeal more to the Western audience - but I believe it's also on record that NiCO was created for the same reason. That is, to appeal to the Japanese audience. The idea was to give everyone a character they'd be able to appreciate.

Either way, with Diego, we have one more Hispanic character. I don't see what the problem is. We have Lisa (well, I'd argue she's black, but whatever) and Mila, too. Just as we have, you know, several other characters hailing from the same countries. Maybe it has less to do with "representation" and more to do with just having variety, which you and I both know DOA needs in its current state. Just a thought.

If the argument is that his inclusion was forced due to political correctness - was it not also a "crime" for them to have introduced a gothic lolita to the series, because that was the "in" thing at the time DOA5U hit arcades? Or is that different, somehow, because people didn't infer political motives, then?

I think it's very tenuous to assume that everything must have to do with, you know, the zeitgeist. TN have clearly proven to us that they can barely keep up with themselves, as it is...

EDIT: Does anyone have Shimbori's "inhuman" quote in the original Japanese? I did take Japanese at university for about two years - I'd be interested in trying to translate what he said, myself...

Unfortunately, you're not going to have much luck on that front, especially when Gamespot doesn't keep Japanese transcripts (we would have found them by now if they did). Maybe if he gave the interview with, say, Dengeki PlayStation instead, we'd probably have more of a chance. And personally, considering how long he was claiming this before changing his tune and claiming he was misunderstood, I'd suspect he was just pulling a CYA and he actually meant what he said. He could have easily provided an audio tape of the interview for people to see.

And honestly, I wouldn't have minded variety too much if they didn't use the term "diversity" regarding their motives for creating him, and while you might argue that Shimbori may have just been mistranslated, Tom Lee is a native English speaker.

As far as the Marvel characters bit, it was given in a Famitsu interview, this one as a matter of fact:

『DOA』が、セクシーからクールに。システム、キャラクター、あのエンジンは？ 『デッド オア アライブ 6』インタビュー - ファミ通.com

ついに発表となった3D対戦格闘ゲーム『デッド オア アライブ 6』。本作について、プロデューサー＆ディレクターを務める、新堀洋平氏に詳しく伺った。

www.famitsu.com

And based on... okay, I'll go ahead and say his name, Billy's translations (and he's done Japanese translations and has even verified whether it was correct), he was specifically meaning the Marvel Comics designs, not just the MCU.

 

[candynarwhal]

Let's agree to disagree that diversity is a bad thing, then - because "various" and "diverse" are synonyms, and I really don't feel like picking apart words when it honestly doesn't even matter to begin with.

I'm sorry you feel there may be an ulterior motive. Personally, I've always thought a colorful roster (in every sense of the word) goes a long way towards making any fighting game fun and engaging, but, to each their own. If that makes you uncomfortable, it's not for me to judge.

 

[deathofaninja]

I get mad and I'm over it 5 minutes later. @DestructionBomb I feel like you take unnecessary shots at things I like, but I will not discredit you and what you've done for the game. I apologize. My zeal for DOA is an unfortunate curse at times.

@Onryoki lol you cute lol.

 

[otnesse]

Let's agree to disagree that diversity is a bad thing, then - because "various" and "diverse" are synonyms, and I really don't feel like picking apart words when it honestly doesn't even matter to begin with.

I'm sorry you feel there may be an ulterior motive. Personally, I've always thought a colorful roster (in every sense of the word) goes a long way towards making any fighting game fun and engaging, but, to each their own. If that makes you uncomfortable, it's not for me to judge.

If Diversity is done right, like, say, Lando Calrissian in the Original Trilogy, where there's nothing outright highlighting his ethnicity, I don't mind it one bit. But when it's the kind of diversity like, say, the stuff JJ Abrams does in Star Wars or even the Supergirl TV series where they at times do race lifts of established characters for no real reason other than to cynically check off diversity and make it way too apparent about it by whining about how they have a bad lot, that's where I draw a line, and knowing that, I don't think you can blame me for feeling very cynical about diversity right now.

 

[Dionysus]

イメージの参考にしたのは、近年のアメコミ映画
This says nothing about Marvel. Your source is an outrage merchant and a moron.
This story was pretty bad. It was a simple story designed to introduce Honoka and Marie for DOALR that had to be expanded into a full story for this, and after the cuts it's a poor thing. Marie has completely lost any 'devilish' touch, Honoka doesn't actually do anything, just steals some moves and becomes a damsel in distress kidnapped pathetically easily. Even Marie doesn't actually help her, she just gets rekt by Bayman.

In my opinion, they should move far away from the outlandish story and focus on the characters, which is what people do still care about. Focus on their personal philosophies, and how they influence each other as fighters. Who cares about the next clone Donovan is making and that Hayabusa or Kasumi will kill anyway? Phase should be developed as an actual character and that whole thing forgotten.

Unfortunately, they've locked themselves in with the ending of 6. The ideal for me would be adding an expansion-pack like story for free that finishes the NiCO resurrection story arc so they can clear the slate and do something character focused in 7. But what am I saying? They haven't even managed to return Hitomi to her original good characterisation, so they might just ruin everyone if they try that.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I personally didn’t enjoy the story of 6 because it felt more like a compilation of random clips than a consistent story.

Probably because it was more of the story of DOA5LR, between DOA5 and DOA6's tournament.

Even the DOA6 tournament didn't feel fleshed out enough. I think there were three characters who won a Semi-final match? wut? and did they allow the match to continue for Round 2 of Jann lee vs Diego? *shrug* and what of "Donovan Jr."? Has he gone back to his Rig personality and muscle family? or is he still stuck in the Donovan Jr. mindset? Does Bass just assume Rig is just as dead as Miyako might as well be?

 

[HHH816]

イメージの参考にしたのは、近年のアメコミ映画
This says nothing about Marvel. Your source is an outrage merchant and a moron.
This story was pretty bad. It was a simple story designed to introduce Honoka and Marie for DOALR that had to be expanded into a full story for this, and after the cuts it's a poor thing. Marie has completely lost any 'devilish' touch, Honoka doesn't actually do anything, just steals some moves and becomes a damsel in distress kidnapped pathetically easily. Even Marie doesn't actually help her, she just gets rekt by Bayman.

In my opinion, they should move far away from the outlandish story and focus on the characters, which is what people do still care about. Focus on their personal philosophies, and how they influence each other as fighters. Who cares about the next clone Donovan is making and that Hayabusa or Kasumi will kill anyway? Phase should be developed as an actual character and that whole thing forgotten.

Unfortunately, they've locked themselves in with the ending of 6. The ideal for me would be adding an expansion-pack like story for free that finishes the NiCO resurrection story arc so they can clear the slate and do something character focused in 7. But what am I saying? They haven't even managed to return Hitomi to her original good characterisation, so they might just ruin everyone if they try that.

why i got the feeling that marie should be nico but TN change her nature probably the japanese audience will be outrage then they make NiCO.

 

[Monkeygigabuster]

Making a single story campaign is really hard to do.Many times they will have to make some silly situations just to include everybody in the story and many badass characters will become jobbers (Shao Kahn in MK11 is the biggest example).Not to mention there is no ways everyone will get the same spotlight in the story.

To this days I'm still so dissapointed with Tekken 7 story of every characters sans the Mishima family

Just give me extra prologue/rival and epilogue cutscenes for everyone in arcade mod(ala tekken 5,6) and I will be happy

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Maybe the fourth character who won semi-finals will be DLC and have his/her story segment as well. Would be cool. Maybe they were planning 3 newcomers but did not manage their time...

 

[marussya]

Maybe the main problem of story is they forgot how the 5 actually ended. Kasumi went to find Donovan and wanted to defeat him alone, Phase 4 had personality and maybe inner conflict inside her. The only thing that he didn't forget Rig is Donovan's *son*, but it was presented bad and kinda mess. Maybe would be better create three lines of story : first, theme of resurrection (what was the main plot in 6), theme of cloning and tournament itself. First line is what we had (Ayane, Honoka, Raidou, NiCO and Helena), second (Kasumi, Phase, Donovan) and maybe conflicts btw agents of MIST and DOATEC (Bayman, Marie, Christie, Lisa) and of course sixth tournament