Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Ok, that might be it, then.
The Scrolls of Tenjinmon: Kasumi's Gameplay Thread
- Thread starter Allan Paris
- Start date
extravagant
Active Member
Hey sorry everyone for the rough post, that was me weeping at my lack of skill, knowledge, motivation, drive and hunger to improve.
I disgraced my own credibility before it was even unasked to be established. I used to play SF4 a lot. Like, A LOT. I used to play it 4-5 hours daily for 2 years straight and that's what brought me to above average or tournament level.
After my humiliating previous post dissing Kasumi (I'm sorry), I just remembered that I had only played this game for only about 3 weeks, and I act like I'm supposed to know everything. Not even a month yet, and also I never played DoA before in my life.
So yeah, my bad. I should've asked for advice than complain. In any case, I'll get back to playing lol.
I disgraced my own credibility before it was even unasked to be established. I used to play SF4 a lot. Like, A LOT. I used to play it 4-5 hours daily for 2 years straight and that's what brought me to above average or tournament level.
After my humiliating previous post dissing Kasumi (I'm sorry), I just remembered that I had only played this game for only about 3 weeks, and I act like I'm supposed to know everything. Not even a month yet, and also I never played DoA before in my life.
So yeah, my bad. I should've asked for advice than complain. In any case, I'll get back to playing lol.
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Yeah, Kasumi is no longer a insta-win against average players anymore. Three weeks isn't enough time to become competitive with her.
Murakame
Active Member
you can try 66P or 4P. Im not sure about 4P though.
This is more core gameplay than Kasumi gameplay but how would you guys practice holds? My sucess rate is very low: I either do it too soon or miss my chance to do it. When should I use her
and over a damaging hold?Also do you guys deal with wake up kicks? If I block low i still get caught by a high wake up kick. Do I have no choice but to hold? especially when my opponent is cornered and I don't have space to flip over or time to back off?
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
You getting you holds correct is something you must do on your own. Choosing between her holds, parries, and advanced parries is also on you. Each one serves its purpose. Her holds will give you your immediate guaranteed damage. If want to use her parries you need to know which moves you should parry. For moves that recovery quick or are safe you do not want to parry them. You will not get any damage from parrying those moves. So holding them is your best option. You need to use her parries when players begin attacking you beyond poking at you.
So mid string or at the end of a string is when you should be parrying with her. Then you need to know which parry use when you do decide to parry.
If the move you parried keeps the player moving in a forward progression then you should be using her advanced parry. Her advanced parry is her doa4 parry and it puts you into her Hoshinpo which has attacks and a throw coming from it. This parry will cover the ground that your opponent has moved in from their attack. You also must use one of her attacking options from this parry. You can't free cancel out of it to follow up with what you want. If you do free cancel out of it you just wasted a parry. Your opponent will realize that you're behind them and turn around before you can attack with what you want.
Then you have her standard parry which is like her doa2u or 3 parry. It teleports you instantly behind your opponent. Use this parry on unsafe moves that keeps your opponent standing in place or does not move them to far forward away from her attacking range from the parry. Her standard parry does not restrict her to her Hoshinpo and allows her to follow up with what you want. Using this parry correctly you can get guaranteed hits from it.
Kasumi's parry is not like Hitomi's or Leifang's. Where they are good whenever you parry a punch or a mid/high in general constantly setting up their opponent for failure. You actually need to know what you should and should not parry with Kasumi, if you want to pick up guaranteed damage from them all or at least the majority of the time.
Luckily we only have to worry about two wake kicks. A mid and a low and both of them Kasumi excels at holding. So figure out the patterns of how players use them and then hold accordingly to that pattern. Of course you have to use her advanced mid kick hold to get the launch from holding the kick. However if you are not comfortable with holding them for some reason. You always have the blocking option. Just hold block, keep your finger on 2, and watch for the wake up kick. Do not think about holding, just block. If you see the low your finger is already in the position for you to duck and block.
Do not get anxious because you will get caught by the mid wake up kick ducking prematurely. Be patient and watch for the kicks. If you manage to block the low wake up kick you can low throw punish it.
So mid string or at the end of a string is when you should be parrying with her. Then you need to know which parry use when you do decide to parry.
If the move you parried keeps the player moving in a forward progression then you should be using her advanced parry. Her advanced parry is her doa4 parry and it puts you into her Hoshinpo which has attacks and a throw coming from it. This parry will cover the ground that your opponent has moved in from their attack. You also must use one of her attacking options from this parry. You can't free cancel out of it to follow up with what you want. If you do free cancel out of it you just wasted a parry. Your opponent will realize that you're behind them and turn around before you can attack with what you want.
Then you have her standard parry which is like her doa2u or 3 parry. It teleports you instantly behind your opponent. Use this parry on unsafe moves that keeps your opponent standing in place or does not move them to far forward away from her attacking range from the parry. Her standard parry does not restrict her to her Hoshinpo and allows her to follow up with what you want. Using this parry correctly you can get guaranteed hits from it.
Kasumi's parry is not like Hitomi's or Leifang's. Where they are good whenever you parry a punch or a mid/high in general constantly setting up their opponent for failure. You actually need to know what you should and should not parry with Kasumi, if you want to pick up guaranteed damage from them all or at least the majority of the time.
Luckily we only have to worry about two wake kicks. A mid and a low and both of them Kasumi excels at holding. So figure out the patterns of how players use them and then hold accordingly to that pattern. Of course you have to use her advanced mid kick hold to get the launch from holding the kick. However if you are not comfortable with holding them for some reason. You always have the blocking option. Just hold block, keep your finger on 2, and watch for the wake up kick. Do not think about holding, just block. If you see the low your finger is already in the position for you to duck and block.
Do not get anxious because you will get caught by the mid wake up kick ducking prematurely. Be patient and watch for the kicks. If you manage to block the low wake up kick you can low throw punish it.
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Just something to add to the wake up kick. Don't stand right on top of them when you try to block or hold them. Back up slightly because that gives you time to watch the animation and see which kick is being used. If you're right on top of them, it's 100% guess.
My personal weakness with her comes from being passive on offense. I like to think of my style as a rushdown & bait people type. I sparred & work closely with Murakame(Tenryuga), Mr. Kwiggle, Return of the Shadow (ChocolatelNative) , DOA Eater(Bannana Eater), & Hoods(NanhouDrops) & they'll tell you that I space out with Kasumi & bait people into attacks. However, I'm so damn passive because of lag. It butchers a lot of the moves that I've learn so I have to limit my juggle strings that I normally use. I do them in offline casuals & competition, but online, it looks like I'm holding back on my offensive attacks because I limit them.
For example: My 236T (or 1T 46H), KK7K 6P+K K, PP7K 6P+K is butchered so instead I use 236T 6K, PPKK (Normally use for wall dmg) or 236t H+K, PP7K 6P+K, KK (or 236T H+K, KK7K)
My 6T comes out as 66T & fails
Sometimes, after I LH (1H), my 33P, 2P 4KK is like 1H, & it's just comes out 236P like I never put in the command.
So I have to really fight through lag to pull off some of my damaging strings. Fortunately, Me & Murakame found some more simple but damaging strings in the lab together last night that helps as well.Not really hung up about online, but has anybody tried playing with 4 bars or less in the lab to pull these off?
For example: My 236T (or 1T 46H), KK7K 6P+K K, PP7K 6P+K is butchered so instead I use 236T 6K, PPKK (Normally use for wall dmg) or 236t H+K, PP7K 6P+K, KK (or 236T H+K, KK7K)
My 6T comes out as 66T & fails
Sometimes, after I LH (1H), my 33P, 2P 4KK is like 1H, & it's just comes out 236P like I never put in the command.
So I have to really fight through lag to pull off some of my damaging strings. Fortunately, Me & Murakame found some more simple but damaging strings in the lab together last night that helps as well.Not really hung up about online, but has anybody tried playing with 4 bars or less in the lab to pull these off?
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
I can pull off anything with at least 4 bars. Basically 2 or less and you should just use basic DOA4 combos.
DriftSlave
Active Member
I wanted to double check on something that was extremely gimmicky I was doing in some online matches...apparently since someone brought it to my attention I should stop doing it completely.
Kasumi's string is a one guess combo starter right? I ask this because when it isn't held(less then I would have thought) it leads to that turn around stun...from there ~ ~ dash buffer the CB and..ya. Aside from all the SE opportunities there is much but things I could be doing, but I thought it was interesting that you could use the CB from that particular sitdown if they didn't SE since the hitbox for it is rather large.
is there a better way to use that particular string or....should I only be using the first hit for the stun game?
Kasumi's
string is a one guess combo starter right? I ask this because when it isn't held(less then I would have thought) it leads to that turn around stun...from there ~ ~ dash buffer the CB and..ya. Aside from all the SE opportunities there is much but things I could be doing, but I thought it was interesting that you could use the CB from that particular sitdown if they didn't SE since the hitbox for it is rather large. is there a better way to use that particular string or....should I only be using the first hit for the stun game?
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Yeah. You should be using the 1st punch alone. The 2nd punch is beaten by high and low holds. It is also ridiculously unsafe. You will not be hitting someone with that punch or the full string all the time. The first punch is best used as a whiff punisher.
You can put the 2nd punch on the screen once you've condition someone to hold block for just the 1st punch. Even still you don't want to rely on using it as much as you are using it now.
You can put the 2nd punch on the screen once you've condition someone to hold block for just the 1st punch. Even still you don't want to rely on using it as much as you are using it now.
DriftSlave
Active Member
thanks for the heads up, It was something I was using alot early on and wasn't sure about other things I could do to get alot of damage until I recently read through the threads again recently(have been absent here for a while).
Currently trying to incorporate untechable setups and stuff along with better damaging combos.
I had another question though, similarly to Tina's Kasumi's / leaves the opponent in a crouch stun that allows you to use on normal hit...is this something i should avoid using? or how would I go about using it? I've had success in using it as a mix up using it from as you can cancel it into her other shenanigans. Still any advice would suffice.
Currently trying to incorporate untechable setups and stuff along with better damaging combos.
I had another question though, similarly to Tina's
Kasumi's / leaves the opponent in a crouch stun that allows you to use on normal hit...is this something i should avoid using? or how would I go about using it? I've had success in using it as a mix up using it from as you can cancel it into her other shenanigans. Still any advice would suffice.thanks for the heads up, It was something I was using alot early on and wasn't sure about other things I could do to get alot of damage until I recently read through the threads again recently(have been absent here for a while).
Currently trying to incorporate untechable setups and stuff along with better damaging combos.
I had another question though, similarly to Tina's
Wow nice tip on being able to use 1H+P after P+K P, I didnt even know you could do that. Ill try incorporate that into some combos and mixups and see if I can give any useful feedback. Seems pretty useful for the meta game.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
The chances of you landing either string ending with that punch on NH is slim to none. That punch will be Held, Blocked, or you're going hit people on CH the majority of the time. This is something that I talked about earlier in this thread. Or it may have been in another thread in no relation to this one. Which why it probably may have been missed. Use that string as you see fit, I personally have no real success with it because just about everyone will hold the punch of just flat out block it and throw punish you for doing it. So stick to the first punch P+K or the first 2 hits P6P.
Ok after trying this online, yeah I can agree with you AP. It is hard to land a normal hit because most the time I land it on CH which cancels out the possibility of landing the low grab. Or the other option of them blocking the second hit. So yeah I would avoid using this often.
DriftSlave
Active Member
Right now im trying to find set ups for because well....its awesome!...anyways I got nothing guaranteed but in the stun Game I use it after I bait a hold...its not as flashy as but Its still pretty comical even today.
because well....its awesome!...anyways I got nothing guaranteed but in the stun Game I use it after I bait a hold...its not as flashy as but Its still pretty comical even today.Right now im trying to find set ups for
I like 8P+H also but dont got many setups for that either. All I do is throw it out whenever I know i got the opponent pressured and they keep blocking. So I use it insted of regular stand grab to mix it up once in a while.
One gimmick I like to use that kinda throws off opponents is after I get a back turn or spin. For example I'll do K+H 66P pause a little then throw out 8 H+P, or just do K+H then 8H+P. What sucks is sometimes I go right over there head, but if not it looks pretty awesome lol
DriftSlave
Active Member
oh I know the move is rather useless but I use it still, it's like trying to land WR or using ~ in the open...
Thing is, ever since it became a OH in DOA4, they changed it's old Startup speed(which was identical to )because it was well...a OH...it also lost that tracking trick too with . Now it's just a slow catch throw that does ok damage as a counter and respectable Hi-counter damage, it's also good when fighting in the Lab stage since you get the floor Danger Zone damage too. But is still overall a better option in most cases...
Edit: after testing alot of commonly used lows...the tech jump for that move is way too slow to do on reaction to any of them....however gimmicky, if used after a trip stun like you can get hi-counter if they mash high holds.
or using ~ in the open...Thing is, ever since it became a OH in DOA4, they changed it's old Startup speed(which was identical to
)because it was well...a OH...it also lost that tracking trick too with . Now it's just a slow catch throw that does ok damage as a counter and respectable Hi-counter damage, it's also good when fighting in the Lab stage since you get the floor Danger Zone damage too. But is still overall a better option in most cases...Edit: after testing alot of commonly used lows...the tech jump for that move is way too slow to do on reaction to any of them....however gimmicky, if used after a trip stun like
you can get hi-counter if they mash high holds.
Dallas1088
Member
So, one thing I've been toying around with is teching people off the ground with 9k. No, this isn't guaranteed, but few of the force techs people are finding are. If I can get someone into stun and mix them up with pp2k, ppp2k, etc. I find I can usually use 9k to pop them off the ground and continue my offense, until they guess right.
From what I've seen it's pretty rage-inducing, and once you start conditioning people to expect the lows, you can begin mindgames with Kasumi's comboable low throw. Fun, fun ^_^
From what I've seen it's pretty rage-inducing, and once you start conditioning people to expect the lows, you can begin mindgames with Kasumi's comboable low throw. Fun, fun ^_^
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Conditioning people to hold lows was so much easier in 4. Spam 1K all day. Still decent in 5, but without that deep stun, it's hardly effective.