HiguraShiki
Active Member
I take it Brad sucks then? You pretty much described Brad to the fullest.
The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
Something-Unique
Active Member
Mila: Read this in sessions lol. Just posted and realized it's beastly long.
Holds:
She has not one, not two, not three, but four special holds all of which have no advanced hold requirement and are on the most important hitzones (both mids and lows). Three out of the four lead to a max of 97 damage with mid k having the TD mount frame advantage on escape. Her best hold is low p leading to max non situational damage at 114 which also has the TD mount frame advantage on escape. Her low p hold can actually max out at 138 but that particular combo needs situational spacing between open space and the wall without actually hitting hit, otherwise it's both frame tight and inconsistent in open space (with an extra emphasis on inconsistent). The evidence from her low p hold are both optimized and listed below...
P6PP, 3PP, K (lightweights) (104)
6P, 3PP, P6P6P (lightweights) (101)
6P, 3PP, 6PP (lightweights/middleweights) (95)
P6P, P+K, 2T (lightweights/middleweights) (114)
6P, P+K, 2T (heavyweights) (108)
3PP, KP, 66, 2T (lightweights/middleweights) (138)
Throws:
Mila's throw game is exceptional as each one covers all the different kind of setups u would want a character to have. 6T(+Frames), 214T(Damage), 66T (OH), 2T(+Frames), 3T (OH) are all excellent with both 66T and 3T being OH's that lead to big damage.
6T leaves her at +15 or +11 with the guaranteed K follow up both leaving her with excellent setups. This is the kind of throw characters like Hitomi wish they had with the guaranteed K as an option and stronger post frame advantage mixups like Mila.
214T has to be in the running for one of the undisputed best throws in the entire game for a number of different reasons. The most important being the unique obscene range it has, high damage, and the unique frame advantage she get's on escape whether u choose to let ur opponent escape or u fail to finish.
66T is the infamous OH which is always good to have seeing how there rare in this game. Leads to big damage, has the TD mount again allowing for frame advantage on escape and is accessible from SS which is also in running for one of the undisputed best SS options in the game. I'd even argue the best SS option period.
2T is interesting. It leaves Mila at +25, grants critical state, and counts as one hit toward the stun threshold. The properties are different on high counter as it has the added bonus of counting as two hits toward the stun threshold. It doesn't seem to scale the damage at all through scaling leading to ridiculous damage for so little hits to get to threshold. Mind u it's also an i5.
3T is her other OH. In general low OH's aren't as useful as their standing counterparts but are both practical and nice to have. Get a good read on ur opponents use of a lows such as 2P's or a string like Gen Fu's PP2P/PP2K and interrupt it instead of blocking netting u the automatic high counter for a potential 90 damage.
General:
Mila is a hybrid character. She's what the big, slow, and powerful characters wish they were due to her being fast in combination with the kind of damage the faster characters often lack. Best played at range 2-3 and doesn't crack under rushdown due to her speed and range.
She's fast with the standard i10 P, an i12 6P (mid) and i12 8P (high) for ch interrupts against staggered strings or general ch hunting and her 2P is +1.
Extremely high on the damage scale thanks to TD mount in combos leading to about 50-60% on average with the added bonus of frame advantage on escape for flexibility or general failure to finish the mount combo.
She has both a frame trap and offensive hold trap built into her 4KT/4KTH series as well as optional mixups from the same 4KTH series. Solid i14 mid k that has enough range to play range 2-3 which is where Mila is the most effective.
She also has access to the best and most unique SS option in the entire game with her OH.
Force Tech in the form of 3H+K, P+K, 3H+K leaving her at +19. Meaning the pressure from the setup is disgusting because of Mila's options. If u even feel the need to pull a Helena/Ayane for example and close the stun game out early the 3H+K fits within the stun game (slow escape proof) due to Mila's P's having deep stun. 3H+K also goes into 2T for high damage no stun game, great tool to whiff punish with in the spacing game, and last but not least it has both a high crush and low crush window.
Great spacing options in the form of 4H+K, 6P+K, 3H+K (noted above), and less useful but still useful 9P all of which are safe and lead to either stun on natural hit (4H+K, 6P+K) or knd for force tech (+19) or high damage (2T) bypassing the stun game (3H+K, 9P).
Mila's P+K is also a solid tool, barred from the status excellent simply because it's unsafe with no follow ups. It's decent for the occasional ch hunting because it's a single hit that leads into 6P, P+K, 2T for 98 (102 if P6P is used as ur starter but it makes it inconsistent) it's unsafe with no follows.
Solid GB in the form of 66P (+12) that guarantees P against the wall for critical stun. Because of the range on 214T it can provide serious pressure in open space as well. 66K (+3) isn't as good but it's a solid mixup for 66P because 66P is a high.
Her stun game is dumb for many reasons but i'm not going to get into that here even though some of her options were discussed above. I'll provide u with the the fact she has a stun loop as well with 7P, P+K which has mixups and one rep can lead to a ridiculous amount of damage due to the damage from P+K and how it scales through the reset. It's completely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things though.
She has access to the new character/vf character wavedash which is great for bait and whiff punishment, eliminating wakeup kicks, etc. I don't think people really know just how effective the wavedashes are yet because most people only use them to escape wakeup kicks or at the end of a round for fun etc. Used as actual movement its ridiculous.
The biggest thing about Mila in a nutshell though is her damage is quite high and she can run +frames against u within the same process with OH's to run through people with heavy pressure on defense or offense through setups.
For now i'm done and will keep some other things to myself.
* I just wanted to note that I listed the topics in order of least important to most important from top to bottom (holds, throws, general) which is something I would like to discuss as well but this in depth post is already to long so i'll tackle it another time.
Holds:
She has not one, not two, not three, but four special holds all of which have no advanced hold requirement and are on the most important hitzones (both mids and lows). Three out of the four lead to a max of 97 damage with mid k having the TD mount frame advantage on escape. Her best hold is low p leading to max non situational damage at 114 which also has the TD mount frame advantage on escape. Her low p hold can actually max out at 138 but that particular combo needs situational spacing between open space and the wall without actually hitting hit, otherwise it's both frame tight and inconsistent in open space (with an extra emphasis on inconsistent). The evidence from her low p hold are both optimized and listed below...
P6PP, 3PP, K (lightweights) (104)
6P, 3PP, P6P6P (lightweights) (101)
6P, 3PP, 6PP (lightweights/middleweights) (95)
P6P, P+K, 2T (lightweights/middleweights) (114)
6P, P+K, 2T (heavyweights) (108)
3PP, KP, 66, 2T (lightweights/middleweights) (138)
Throws:
Mila's throw game is exceptional as each one covers all the different kind of setups u would want a character to have. 6T(+Frames), 214T(Damage), 66T (OH), 2T(+Frames), 3T (OH) are all excellent with both 66T and 3T being OH's that lead to big damage.
6T leaves her at +15 or +11 with the guaranteed K follow up both leaving her with excellent setups. This is the kind of throw characters like Hitomi wish they had with the guaranteed K as an option and stronger post frame advantage mixups like Mila.
214T has to be in the running for one of the undisputed best throws in the entire game for a number of different reasons. The most important being the unique obscene range it has, high damage, and the unique frame advantage she get's on escape whether u choose to let ur opponent escape or u fail to finish.
66T is the infamous OH which is always good to have seeing how there rare in this game. Leads to big damage, has the TD mount again allowing for frame advantage on escape and is accessible from SS which is also in running for one of the undisputed best SS options in the game. I'd even argue the best SS option period.
2T is interesting. It leaves Mila at +25, grants critical state, and counts as one hit toward the stun threshold. The properties are different on high counter as it has the added bonus of counting as two hits toward the stun threshold. It doesn't seem to scale the damage at all through scaling leading to ridiculous damage for so little hits to get to threshold. Mind u it's also an i5.
3T is her other OH. In general low OH's aren't as useful as their standing counterparts but are both practical and nice to have. Get a good read on ur opponents use of a lows such as 2P's or a string like Gen Fu's PP2P/PP2K and interrupt it instead of blocking netting u the automatic high counter for a potential 90 damage.
General:
Mila is a hybrid character. She's what the big, slow, and powerful characters wish they were due to her being fast in combination with the kind of damage the faster characters often lack. Best played at range 2-3 and doesn't crack under rushdown due to her speed and range.
She's fast with the standard i10 P, an i12 6P (mid) and i12 8P (high) for ch interrupts against staggered strings or general ch hunting and her 2P is +1.
Extremely high on the damage scale thanks to TD mount in combos leading to about 50-60% on average with the added bonus of frame advantage on escape for flexibility or general failure to finish the mount combo.
She has both a frame trap and offensive hold trap built into her 4KT/4KTH series as well as optional mixups from the same 4KTH series. Solid i14 mid k that has enough range to play range 2-3 which is where Mila is the most effective.
She also has access to the best and most unique SS option in the entire game with her OH.
Force Tech in the form of 3H+K, P+K, 3H+K leaving her at +19. Meaning the pressure from the setup is disgusting because of Mila's options. If u even feel the need to pull a Helena/Ayane for example and close the stun game out early the 3H+K fits within the stun game (slow escape proof) due to Mila's P's having deep stun. 3H+K also goes into 2T for high damage no stun game, great tool to whiff punish with in the spacing game, and last but not least it has both a high crush and low crush window.
Great spacing options in the form of 4H+K, 6P+K, 3H+K (noted above), and less useful but still useful 9P all of which are safe and lead to either stun on natural hit (4H+K, 6P+K) or knd for force tech (+19) or high damage (2T) bypassing the stun game (3H+K, 9P).
Mila's P+K is also a solid tool, barred from the status excellent simply because it's unsafe with no follow ups. It's decent for the occasional ch hunting because it's a single hit that leads into 6P, P+K, 2T for 98 (102 if P6P is used as ur starter but it makes it inconsistent) it's unsafe with no follows.
Solid GB in the form of 66P (+12) that guarantees P against the wall for critical stun. Because of the range on 214T it can provide serious pressure in open space as well. 66K (+3) isn't as good but it's a solid mixup for 66P because 66P is a high.
Her stun game is dumb for many reasons but i'm not going to get into that here even though some of her options were discussed above. I'll provide u with the the fact she has a stun loop as well with 7P, P+K which has mixups and one rep can lead to a ridiculous amount of damage due to the damage from P+K and how it scales through the reset. It's completely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things though.
She has access to the new character/vf character wavedash which is great for bait and whiff punishment, eliminating wakeup kicks, etc. I don't think people really know just how effective the wavedashes are yet because most people only use them to escape wakeup kicks or at the end of a round for fun etc. Used as actual movement its ridiculous.
The biggest thing about Mila in a nutshell though is her damage is quite high and she can run +frames against u within the same process with OH's to run through people with heavy pressure on defense or offense through setups.
For now i'm done and will keep some other things to myself.
* I just wanted to note that I listed the topics in order of least important to most important from top to bottom (holds, throws, general) which is something I would like to discuss as well but this in depth post is already to long so i'll tackle it another time.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
#1 Doesn't mean Jann Lee is extremely linear just cause Zack is better with tracking moves.
#2 That's all I found in 30 seconds.
#3 That doesn't include in string tracking moves.
LOL Hella biased about ninjas I assume, but while Zack's speed is what he has going for him, I still say a 6-4 Busa win. Zack has to get in close on him & don't have too many range tools. Ryu's crushes & whiff punishers still hurt like hell too. But Zack has a lot going for him up close as far as speed. Defensive Zack won't win against him.
HiguraShiki
Active Member
Woah, big post there Unique. Thanks for the in-depth description of Mila.
It's not the fact he "sucks". It's just the simple fact he pulling a groin muscle to get his wins. He don't suck. Alot of people are used to the fact that ninjas were at the top of the food chain in the cast in DOA4 & the reality hasn't set in on them that they gotta do more work to win matches with ninjas. Takeda, myself, & others realize that while others out there are having a tough time getting used to it.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
1. Then why did you post them?
2. I found all of Zack's tracking moves in the first month of the game.
3. Zack has those too.
I hate the ninjas, but I'm serious bro. That is a 5-5 man. Real talk. And Zack at a distance isn't bad. He has 6H+K, H+K, CH 4K, 7PP, 3kk(high crush),7K 9PP, and airwalk if you're feeling yourself. I also got 6P+K the second knee of it is nuts(i.e.e super fast). I gave Ryu credit for having some good crushes. That is what i need to worry about his whiff punishes who don't shit, since Zack has a ton of safe shit on whiff. Btw..defensive Zack rapes Ryu. A decent Zack won't try to go nuts on a Ryu. We're not going to let him get his izuna holds for free. But know Zack vs. Hayate is fun. Zack pimp smacks him so hard.
uh..I get no credit? i been knew the ninjas lots some of their juice and were actually fair and not brain dead. And that kind makes him low tier when he needs to pull a groin to get the W bro.
play gen fu vs. zack and comeback and tell me parries a situational bro. Besides...you're french noblewoman is free to parries like Zack.
You try to play a "defensive" Zack against a good Ryu & he'll get stomped! Zack is a rushdown character. If anything Zack rapes him with constant pressure & mixups.
As for Hayate, he's not a "bad" character. Yes, he's working harder for wins, but does "he's pulling a groin muscle to wins" mean he's terrible? No. I'm saying he has to work for a lot of his wins. Dont mean he dont have any favorable matchups
Ayane isn't brain dead (none of them are for that matter). Amongst the four of them, she requires the least amount of mistakes to be made at high level play, and actually requires a bit more patience to play than the others.
And out of the four, she's the only one that didn't receive any type of nerf, at all. She got better. The only real thing she lost (like most of the cast), are offensive holds.
Bitch has got all kinds of favorable matchups. Kasumi's not no slouch, but has to work more than what Ayane does.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
I'll accept the challenge of any decent Ryu player then.
And word of advice don't use analogies like that. They are very misleading.
Not everyone got parries and sabkis jeff.
How is it "misleading" when I just said that out of the 4 ninjas, he's putting in more work? lol.. Thats just my sense of humor bruh. Us dirty south boys use different terms LMAO. But anyways, Hajinshinobi said the same thing basically just that Ayane out of the 4 has more going for her than others.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
HiguraShiki
Active Member
I honestly just can't see Zack having any favorable matchup at all. Everything he does in general is just done better by a majority of the cast.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
He does. I can give you a handful with some chips. I mean when yo think about if he wasn't so free to crushing he would be better.
lol he ain't Bass' level bro. But hey i'm just going to let it fly. Me and others have found some crazy frame advantage with him.
Fixed, you spelled my name wrong. Just sayin'.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
HajinShinboi... I like that (time for a gamertag change)
I still find it funny that people are trying to defend Jann Lee though. I just played that one hit me 3 times and guaranteed 75 - 80% of my health bar. The way he is right now he doesn't even belong in this game. Either make it so every character can end the match in 10 seconds or nerf him.