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Good thinkin, TN! That's what I thought, but it's still kind of shitty. Going to have to try something stupid out at home and see what happens if you throw during Tina's 8f+p frankensteiner. You can't possibly throw her so I'm assuming you whiff and she whiffs worse, but it's a interesting...

So I figure I can test this myself, but I thought I'd ask if anyone knew for sure: does a throw beat an OH only if the active frames come out for the throw first? Or is the throw just invincible to the OH from the first frame? As an example, say Bayman lands a guard crush and he's at +9. A...

Can you take off the damn ears? I might maybe rock that Mila thing if you can take off the goddamn ears. Though I kind of had liked her not having her shit hanging out everywhere. I mean, I play Tina, eventually you need a break.

Thanks! I'll have to give that a shot; I'd tried just 8k from slightly off axis and it seemed like it screwed up the spacing, but I hadn't tried sidestep k. If this makes it totally reliable, I mean, Jesus, he can seriously take off 1/3rd to one-half a bar in one guess between this and 236p or...

For a sub, I've heard good things about alt.com. For a different character, I'm a Tina fan since DOA1 and she's badass in this one. Her force tech game is probably the best out of all the grapplers and so probably the best in the game, so once you get pressure started you can keep it up all...

Check out the takedown cancels from stun thread, there's some neat tech from 4k and 7p takedown cancels. You can even get a +11 reset from 7p f+p f 2p, which is a nice way of keeping up pressure. Seeing as she has some difficulty getting off a hard knockdown from stun it's probably her best...

Well, that's sort of the beauty; if the second k whiffs because they tech you have enough advantage to hit them with a lot of things. I think 66f+p might even work. It's an effective +5 to +7. I wouldn't use it off a launch that gave you 9pkp by any means. But if you got a little counterhit...

on today's episode of touched by a bayman: shinryu learns the true value of friendship. and also how to do 130+ damage on one guess. Seriously, are people aware of 8k and kp and how much ridiculous damage you can get from these guys? Because it's gross and unavoidable and may cause your...

There are definitely setups for situations where you can either force tech or be at enough advantage on recovery you might as well have forced a tech. For Bass it seems like 6kk will do this off 33p; either you hit the second kick if they don't tech or you're at like +6 or something if they do...

I could only ever get that to work on Bayman reliably in training for some reason. I need to check with the other characters, since I think I only tried on Kasumi and sometimes the lightweights seem to react strangely relative to the other characters or there's some sort of hitbox oddity going on.

As a quick update, the 8p after 6ppk setup has some dependence on launch height in terms of the advantage on whiff. Basically, if you've launched higher and started 6ppk while the opponent was higher up you'll whiff later in your animation on a tech, so you'll have more effective advantage...

So I think I've found a decent "force tech" setup for Helena off a juggle that leaves her in her normal stance: it may be preferable to the 33p4p ender in terms of the frame advantage you get, but not sure about damage. Anyway, as an example, try 9k 236pk 1k hold 2. If the opponent doesn't tech...

It's not that bufferable, but the timing's not that hard. You do have to see it coming and it's probably harder to do in a match than it is in training. Unfortunately, it looks like the force tech situation is a little more complicated than I had originally thought. Apparently some knockdowns...

So it turns out there's a bit of weirdness to the force tech thing. It looks like some knockdowns entirely disable force teching till the opponent gets up somehow, while others don't.. Basically, the 6ppk 2p setup isn't ironclad if the 2p hits, so you're probably better off using 8p. However...

Well, so this looks like it's actually a bit more complicated than I had initially thought. Apparently some knockdowns entirely disable force teching for their duration, while some don't. Depending, certain force techs may or may not work. It actually looks like most of the 2p setups above don't...

So it's beginning to look a lot like most everybody may have a decent pseudo force tech from 2p after launching. So far I've found: Tina: 6ppk 2p, gives +5 advantage if they tech or sets up 6f+k force tech (+9). Mila: pppp 2p, gives +8 advantage if they tech or sets up 3f+k force tech (+19)...

So Mila has a retardedly good pseudo force tech from juggling. Try pppp 2p, or 6pk 2p after launch. If the opponent doesn't tech, 2p leads to 3f+k and nets you 8 damage and a +19 tech situation. If they do tech, Mila is basically still at +8 or so after the tech. p generally won't work as the...

We're going to get this girl to top tier yet with this shit. Check out the 6ppk 2p juggle set up in the other thread: after any launch that can get 6ppk you can guarantee a +5 situation or get an extra 9 damage and +9. 8p works too but this is much better if they tech. Oh, and I found an...

So 8p actually works like a charm after the 6ppk setup too, but it messes up the spacing a bit so you have to delay a 46p ever so slightly. You're actually at +23. If they tech, you're at even frames so no risk to you to try it. Edit: So this is a little more complex than I had thought, the...

So some bad news and some good news: Unholdables look to be generally out. If the guide is correct holds are 0-frame now, and I tested the setup p+k p+k p+k p+k (which gives you +20). p+k is 19 frames and has 3 hit frames, so unless I fail at mashing I'm pretty sure that the second hit frame...