Can someone please explain to me where Helena stands against Hayate and Jann Lee?
Late reply:
Hayate > He beats her up close, he has an i10 jab, a i12 mid punch that beats her i12 mid punch and an i12 low. So from the start of the match she has to let him set the pace of the fight seeing as P+K doesn't work well against him. When at range BKO duck doesn't save her from his 3F+K, she has to work to get in on him and only when she has her PFT going can she compete up close.
His command side step forces her to guess very correctly after PFT. Her fastest tracking move is 1P which is i17, if you think he is going to side step and you do 1P and he uses his fastest mid poke 6P Helena will lose out so even with +4 at your disposal you need to guess well.
Overall you lose up close and at range, only through strong mind games will Helena win seeing as Hayate's tools are much easier to throw out. Helena has the tools to win as well but her tools are very situational whilst his are far more general.
Jann Lee > As with Hayate he beats her up close with his i10 jab, i11 mid punch and I think his low punch is i12? Helena's is i14 so whatever it is it's not as slow as hers. Unlike Hayate though her P+K will crush his 6P, but only at range.
His 3K, 66K and 4P string will keep her out at range, neither of her running attacks have even the slightest chance of working. He has quite a few tracking lows that can give her problems with BKO duck and BKO in general.
His Dragon Gunner is tough for her to deal with, you'll never be in BKO whilst he is pressuring you up close obviously and her fastest crushes only have her in crouching status for a couple frames so DG will cut through most of her attacks. 2F+K is probably the best move to deal with it but using an i23(?) move up close against Jann Lee is suicide for the most part.
As with Hayate PFT is the only way to go in this match up, until you get it going you are in a lousy situation.
This is part of what I don't like about Helena in DOA5, almost all of her match ups are lousy until you introduce this one thing that makes them even at best. Hopefully she will be more interesting in DOA5U with a broader range of tools instead of being this one trick pony type of character.
Hi
i had a lot of bad online match up against Ayane. Any tips or video are welcome for a beginner like me. Once ayane is playing evasive , i just keep saying "oh no.. the game is lost".
It's even worse for Lisa, just seeing her walking, i know i'm done at the beginning of the match. But that was explained in former posts and i'll try to improve my guessing.
Ryu i'm not really afraid of, since i saw mamba-master video at DID8, i understand now better what can I do.
Jan lee also i can manage it online with BKO.
Alpha, i just had realised that you can block most of online opponents and then punish them.
Rig i don't know at the beginning. It really depends on how the player masters it. Sometimes it's a no brainer game with opening like 1ppk. but when the kicks start to flow from rig , i'm roasted.
hitomi, mila, kokoro are still monsters for me to deal with. I need more experiment to understand how to counter them.
But ayane's opponents are so popular online that i 'm really fed up.
Ayane is tough, her ranged tools are completely safe and track so side stepping gets you killed and blocking gets you nowhere. I'll try to break down Ayane's Forward Facing, Back Turned, Rolling and Spinning Stances by listing some key points to look out for.
Forward Facing:
2P is i12 and 0 on NH so be very careful with BKO and BKO duck as a good Ayane will throw this out a lot seeing as it's fast, crushes high's and causes a pure reset at worst for her.
4P is her panic move, it's fast at i15, crushes high's and some mid's. It also tracks so side stepping often results in you simply getting launched so watch out for that.
6P comes out in i13 but behaves more like an i12 move for some reason. When free cancelled it puts her in BT which means she can flip over you or go into spinning stance so watch out for the mix up. She can also finish the string with a mid punch that launches or a mid kick which tracks, both are unsafe however.
Back Turned:
4P is as above as she can do it from BT as well.
6P launches on CH, comes out in i13 and crushes high's.
2K is a tracking low so side stepping and BKO get stuffed by this.
PP6KK4 is her +1 frame trap from BT so be ready for that.
1P is an i13 low that tracks so this move not only comes out really fast and crushes high's but it also beats side steps and stuff's BKO duck. This attack has a low kick follow up that tracks and stuns on NH, she also has a BT low throw so you have to respect these follow ups.
PPPP is a string that ends with a guard crushing mid punch that gives her +5. Not hard to see coming but annoying to counter online.
I have to say that I disagree with one thing that NinjaGuy said and that is about using BKO duck against Ayane when she is in BT. If she free cancels into BT she is always unsafe so you can get a free grab against her. It can be risky to do this though so I would recommend doing 4PPK/8K, if this connects to her when she is in BT you get a maximum height launch offering you a free 92 point damage combo. Don't go passing that up.
Rolling Stance:
She can only do four single actions from this stance, she has no strings do pressure with.
F+P which is a standing throw, obviously this cannot be side stepped unless you are Christie.
F+K which is a mid kick. Do not try to BKO duck when she rolls at you as the mid kick connects with grounded opponents.
P Which makes her flip over you leaving her in BT.
K Which is an i47 low crush which sometimes crushes mid's too. It's -5 on block so only grappler's can punish it. I'd use Helena's 4P string when blocking this so as to avoid Ayane crushing you with her BT 4P.
Spinning Stance:
This one is much harder to deal with than Rolling Stance even though she has only two options that link straight from this stance, a low kick string and a mid punch.
KKK or KK2K is a string that stuns on NH and all three hits track regardless of what variant of the string she decides to do. Be mindful of the fact that the opponent won't finish the string unless they don't have you in stun. KK2K results in her gaining +17 on block but she is pushed way too far away to capitalise on it.
P, this mid punch crushes high and sometimes crushes mid's. It also has a very good hit box which makes beating it out with an attack of your own very difficult. Helena's 7K works well to beat of out both attacks but the timing it tough and the likely hood of Ayane using it at neutral is pretty slim.
The best moves for Helena's to use in this match up when Ayane isn't stunned are fast mid's that can't be crushed easily so try to focus on 33P (i13), 4P (i15), 9P (i14), BKO 6P (i12) and BT4K (i12). Avoiding high's and her 3P (i12), this move might be her fastest mid from Forward Facing but it is too easily crushed to be reliable especially against a character like Ayane.
This list is pretty extensive so hopefully it will be of use to you.