Release 6++ Gameplay Overhaul - Skies Of Vengeance 4.1 hotfix

Rev_an

Active Member
of course!

just keep in mind things are subject to change, especially stuff i've added. damage and knockback values are fairly likely to be adjusted in the future so optimal today might not be optimal in six months, but i don't see changing too many refloat heights since that's hard.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Some things I found(not much yet since I'm tired from work and will continue to harvest before my next shift):

I really like the 1H+K low addition, it gives Kasumi an easy way to get a combo opening near a wall from a low with like the regular mid to low variants but less tedious. The +11 on NH and +13 on CH too I think is pretty good too since it'll only allow Kasumi's P or 6P from CH to get something going when she has your back to a wall

I like the added 6K6K and PP6K6K although it's not as useful as I thought it would be since it hits harder and recovers quicker than 6KK but the lack of tracking imo is kinda odd. I do like it near a wall since because it recovers quicker than 6KK, Kasumi can get more from the wallsplat than just KKK or PKKK, she can sidewalk a bit and get the opponent away from the wall and somewhere else with KK7K~6P, I wanted to see if her KK7K~69PK~6KK would work but it doesn't connect so I think it's not possible which is fine.

9P+KP feels strange since I've never known Kasumi had this in earlier DOA5 pre release but I like it, it's basically a somewhat risky way to teleport behind the opponent to get her go limbo stun combo route or something deadlier if you're willing to play the stun game, I like this move alot. I'm too tired to really tech right now with it but I definitely will when I make a combo video! The input to do 9P+KPP is kinda stiff tho, although that's not a concern since I don't think I'll use that string much.

I like her added doa4 33KK as 33H+KK, it's not as good as her current 33K but I like how it has better reach and it's basically like a faster 3P+KK but faster by 10i


As for 46P for Kasumi, I didn't record my findings but it's a cool addition to, it's semi safe and I like the reach and speed. The stun imo on counter hit is just kinda harder to make use of, it's +17 but the way the opponent kinda hunches back that far makes it somewhat impossible to use in open space for a continued stun set up, but I'm guessing it's suited more as an offensive CH poke so you can get advantage rather than actually use it to combo from. I do like it near invisible barriers since you can use her 7K to launch and basically any 15i or quicker move to continue a stun

Last one so far, i like the added 214P+K PL, the ceiling stun that leaves them open for a juggle is nice definitely going to see how I can implement this in deeper stuns
 

Rev_an

Active Member
9p+k p you have to hit kinda early and 9p+k pp you have to hit way early.

it's originally only three moves, just the elbow and no string

alex ripped these "action ID"s from the game data somewhere:

11 21AC_KS_DOA5_9PAK
12 21AC_KS_MOON_STEP
13 21AC_KS_MOON_STEP_2


9p+k does what it always did, moon step is a short bridge between the jump and the teleport iirc for some vfx, however many frames into 9p+k, roughly just before the crossup would happen if you did it in someone's face. then she actually teleports and starts doing the elbow. You can see what's happening better by turning on the collider view.

I added the 66pp followup (and the k followup for phase 4's bt 4p 6p+k, which uses her copy of moon step) you're actually in the animation for the elbow a bit earlier than you'd expect from the visual, and for reasons i don't entirely understand you have to commit to the second P. I'm fine with it because you definitely shouldn't be able to block-confirm with a delay string in that situation.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Also is the new Memoriam stage supposed to be laggy? When I try to tech in it it moves almost slower xD
 

Rev_an

Active Member
Also is the new Memoriam stage supposed to be laggy? When I try to tech in it it moves almost slower xD
it's known-laggy online for indeterminate reasons, i haven't had anyone say it was slow offline (except me, on an older version with all the grass and a worse floor mesh, 40fps lol)

i'm going to rearrange a bunch of stuff on there that should help but it'll take a while and i think a lot of stuff in there was only ever meant to be drawn at low-LOD

there's a chance i make the slope less steep somehow (engine has an option to do dimension scaling of props, and the visual floor is a prop....) but i'm not sure how messed up it would make everything else if i squish the ground from a 0.34 slope to a... idk high 20s maybe, iron hell is like 0.22 and the modded CoP is 0.11
 
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Rev_an

Active Member
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small optional update. cleaned up some command training errors (but not all of them, tamaki 6k4k isn't real), added visual wall to chinese festival 3. and removed a wall from hotzone out of bounds because the corner by the hallway was getting in the way of the camera sometimes. Also adjusted the ceiling on chamber of potential but taking a picture of that is kinda pointless.



these changes do not affect mechanical play so you don't need to worry about whether your opponent has it or not unless i've made a horrible mistake

i looked at throwdown and memorial a little but getting the way those stages work doesn't lend to a solution that i can guarantee won't change gameplay.
 
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KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Thought I'd share some more(slightly older since I'm learning how to mod SF6 atm so DOA6 is uninstalled till I get a better SSD storage) findings I found from the recent update:

Kasumi's 214P+K is so good imo in stages with ceilings

it even works and causes the same Jann Lee ceiling "bug" that happens in the vanilla game when Jann uses his one charge attack in the Miyabi stage where I'm guessing there's ceiling properties that are triggered in the more marrow back area xD

Imo, if the attack is updated, I don't think the move needs just teleport options. I'd like if the attack could also cause a refloat similar to the 214P refloat if the attack is fully charged, that would be a really pretty combo refloat in stages like Road Rage


Tried the APO stage glass slip stun and I like it, it's kinda difficult to tech since the area is harder to see but I can see this being useful in the heat of a match, I think this is also the first instance where Kasumi is able to get a wall 7P stun from it too since the other stages with slip stuns never seem to have a wall Kasumi can use it from

Mai's new 6P+K I love since it makes her even more dangerous, she already has a mid kick crumple stun and a mid punch fan crumple stun, but this is basically a high stun that jails in stun/CHinto a mid crumple stun giving her three different ways to get a guess or fall situation going xD The only gripe tho is that the reach is kinda bad but it makes sense since it seems more like it's better used up close compared to her P+K and 46K


I also really like Tamaki's new attacks. 1P2K is just what I wanted, it's like a static string version of Momiji's 1P. Her 4PP is decent, I like it best near walls since that wallsplat can lead to solid damage and it can knock down on hit for an easy FT situation which is nice since that helps Tamaki get her 66T and other post wake up pressure going easier

6P+KP I'm a bit indifferent about, I do like it when she has you near a wall since the soft wall splat guarantees the 4P+K ender for easy advantage at least.
 

Rev_an

Active Member
good stuff

t even works and causes the same Jann Lee ceiling "bug" that happens in the vanilla game when Jann uses his one charge attack in the Miyabi stage where I'm guessing there's ceiling properties that are triggered in the more marrow back area xD
there's no way it's a bug, the way to turn off ceiling collision would take five seconds and the way the ceiling overrides into ceiling hit versions is very annoying is complicated enough that I don't believe any ceilings are unintentional.

ceiling only checks some characters for strike overrides, which is weird because all the PLs ceiling hit in 5. Thing that does the actual overriding seems to work differently from wall splats and doesn't appear to be in the character data.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
good stuff


there's no way it's a bug, the way to turn off ceiling collision would take five seconds and the way the ceiling overrides into ceiling hit versions is very annoying is complicated enough that I don't believe any ceilings are unintentional.

ceiling only checks some characters for strike overrides, which is weird because all the PLs ceiling hit in 5. Thing that does the actual overriding seems to work differently from wall splats and doesn't appear to be in the character data.
That makes sense, it's still a cool addition I like, i was lowkey hoping it'd do the same thing as Jann lee!

Also I had a few moves suggestions if you were still receiving some(balanced of course since I like how balanced the ++ mod is so far):

:kasumi:
°I definitely still would love her 4P+K back, it'd be cool if she had a move that if she charges it it can turn into a + GB

°Phase 4's 3P+K P+K, I think that could be a useful but still unsafe mid she can use for a crumple stun.

°a new Hoshinpo transition, ideally from KK and PKK and maybe 6P+K

°4KK( the final attack) as a standalone move, ideally as 9H+K.

°66PP(final attack) as a standalone attack, ideally as 1P+K.

:mai:
°Her old PPK back as PP8K.
°4H+K imo should have a backturned transition if you hold back(4H+K4). I also feel it should be safer since imo it's ones of her worst tracking moves, the only thing that keeps it worth using is that it doesn't wallsplat but it's too unsafe and I also feel the stun isn't that great

°Her old 4P+K, definitely one of the best charged moves in LR, it has reach, great pushback in open space and its basically like a projectile fling.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
how the fuck is 66pp a high with where that hitbox is
Tbh I noticed that Kasumi's 66PP seems like a modified version of Ayane's 4P, i guess they wanted it to have more weight to it since it's recovery is quite long and they made it a high so it could be not as easy to mash on block. I personally don't mind it as a high since that keeps it fair as a semi safe guard break xD
 

Rev_an

Active Member
these files clean up a lot of the texture buffer weirdness on Seafood without changing gameplay at all, you can leave the fixed area in whatever direction the z-axis is but it's like 60m wide which is twice as big as chamber of potential. can't make it bigger without ruining the dolphins on the regular stage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if you've modded S0102PIR_MPR_Muscle_Stage_pir_box_rope_01_fb_kidsalb.g1t yours might look weird although i'm not convinced it's loading the texture properly so maybe that doesn't matter. it might also look real weird with some combinations of characters and costumes since that seems to affect textures loading on black forest and the zen
 

Rev_an

Active Member
turns out that for kasumi's k6k (and 8k6k, and kasumi α in dimensions) to work everybody's mid (and high but we're not using those) wakeup kicks have followup interval because all the technical stuff for wakeup kicks is shared. The low wuk has one too, for some unused alpha-152 stuff from way back that wasn't cleaned up.

you can go look at that now in any version of doa 6, or 5. and maybe you can FSDC out of low wuk in the games that have that.


I'm looking at several wuk followups with general guidelines that low wuks stay vulnerable to low throw on block (unless frame-manipulated, and there are very few candidates with the required instant crouch frames), mid wuks don't connect anything in stun, and high wuks stay out of the game.

some things that pass these guidelines:
· ayane/lisa mid wuk -> 8p to back-turned
· brad mid wuk -> 66p+k to handstand
· jann/honoka mid wuk -> dragon stance
· bayman low wuk 8/2p+k tank roll
· christie low wuk -> dokuja fujin transition from 1k2k2 | -1 on NH

some things that fail:
· hayabusa low wuk -> handstand (maybe usagiz could get away with it with an actual handstand stance transition)
· hayabusa mid wuk -> ongyoin
· ayane wuk -> forward spin (e.g. 6p3)
· wuk into some string (you'd need to make wuk startup vulnerable before the active frame and that might not even be enough)
· any movement or charge frames after a low wuk that aren't crouching on frame 1, e.g. chifu/hoshinpo, most charge moves except helena's

some borderline things:
· brad low wuk -> second kick from 2_kk | unsafe automatically into laying so it still eats a low throw punish but adding a string to low wuk seems dangerous
· ayane back spin | eats a low throw up close but i'm not sure if it lets her move out of range of one at some distance that she wouldn't avoid simply from the distance required for frame manipulation. probably would want to remove the followup strikes
· helena low wuk -> bkh 4p+k | i'm not sure how tight the 2T timing becomes vs a no-charge, it's quite difficult to set up com recordings for anything to do with a wakeup kick that's more complicated than com reaction kick.
· limiting something that isn't reasonable on block to only work on-hit is probably still a bad idea, e.g. phase 4 teleports.
 

Collinyermom

New Member
Here are some additions/changes to Tamaki's moveset that I think would be cool! Keep in mind that these are just ideas, some may not be great and are up for discussion of course. Also this is very long because of my input I'm so sorry lol.
  • PPP2K, 3P2K - The last kick would be her 2H+K low. I feel like this would be a nice low mix-up similar to the ones that Kasumi and Mai have with their PPP2K/3P2K.
  • PP6K - Her first two neutral punches into her 6K knee move with its follow-up strings. I think this would add good mix-up possibility to her neutral punch string, similar to other characters with a PP6K string.
  • PKK, 3KK - The last kick would be the last kick from her KK/4K that makes her back-turned. I feel like this added mix-up would be another nice way to get her to be back-turned, while also making her PK/3K string less predictable with the last punch.
  • 6PKK, 4H+KK - The last kick would be her PPK/H+K launcher added at the end of the string. I don't think having a launcher at the end of these strings would be too strong as it's a little predictable as a string ender, but I just thought the animations would flow well too.
  • 7PK - The last kick would be her 1K low kick. I feel like Tamaki needs more low mix-ups and the animations for 7P into 1K I think would flow well.
  • 9PPK - The last kick would be her 66K kick. I just thought it would be cool to have the kick as an ender for the string.
  • 6KPP, 9PKPP - Adding in her new PP4PP/4PP string at the end of 6K/9PK. I feel like having a punch mix-up after her knee would be cool, rather than only being able to end with a kick. Though, while in my head the animation transition from 6K to the 4P punch looks like it would flow well, idk how it would actually look when put together.
  • 7KPK - After her flip kick, when she lands, she could move forward a little bit and go into her 66PK string. This may not sound like a great idea, but I thought it would be an interesting follow-up. If the flip kick whiffs or if it gets blocked, there is room to follow-up and pressure your opponent more. If the flip kick hits and launches the opponent, depending on how far they are, the 66PK follow-up string could be used as something to juggle the opponent a little.
  • 4P+K2K - The following kick could her new low sweep kick from her 1P2K string. I was thinking about whether the new sweep kick or her 2H+K kick would be better as a low mix-up, but I feel like just to not be too redundant with using the same moves in different strings, the sweep would be better. Not sure about the animation flow, but I feel like it could be possible.
  • 2P+K - The last punch from her PKP/3KP string as its own move would be kinda cool idk lol. Maybe it could also sit-down stun, or even cause a bound-state during a juggle? Sounds kinda far-fetched but the idea popped in my head.
  • (BT) 2P+KP - Just her new 6P+KP string but back-turned. I feel like it would give her better mix-up possibilities when back-turned.
  • (BT) H+K - Her 7K flip kick but back-turned, and could include my suggested follow-ups in the string. I just thought that there should be more ways to use her flip kick because I think the animation for it looks great lol. Hopefully someone has an idea to put her flip kick in a string because I'd like to see it happen lol.
  • 6PK6T, 4H+K6T - I think having her OH follow-up for any more moves than she already has might be too strong as she has a lot of pressure with the 5 that she already has, but having the OH follow-up after another move other than a mid punch would be interesting. I was thinking that with this move at least, if the 6PKK/4H+KK string I suggested was implemented, the follow-ups to 6PK and 4H+K in general can be avoided/punished on block or whiff by ducking or doing a ducking move to avoid both the high kick and the OH.
  • 6K6T (?) - I initially thought that her 6K knee string could also have an OH follow-up, as opposed to 4H+K6T as a mid kick with the OH follow-up. However, I feel like 6K6T could be too strong, especially if my suggested 6KPP string were to be added to her moveset. Though, if the 6KPP string wasn't to be added, then 6K6T could be a decent mix-up.
  • On a side note, the reason that I think it would be too strong if the OH follow-up was added to her 6K string *alongside* the suggested 6KPP string is because after 6K, Tamaki could do a mid punch, mid kick, or high OH, which is tough to predict. When I thought about it further though, she has 6P, which already has the same three possible mix-up possibilities: a mid punch, mid kick, or the high OH (6PP, 6PK, and 6P6T respectively). Because she already has a string with similar follow-up possibilities, it could be possible to implement another, though that could just make her way more difficult to predict than she already would be.
As you could probably tell, I just felt like Tamaki has not very many mix-ups in some of her current strings and thought she deserved to have additional strings to fill in her already tiny move list. She can really only end most of her strings with one kind of attack and a lot of her moves are just stand-alone moves without a follow-up string. I feel like this makes her somewhat predictable compared to other characters, and even boring at times. I still love her though she's such a queen! I just wish she received more of the love she deserves.

Some of these may sound too strong or even redundant, but these are just ideas I thought would be cool to consider. The current added strings she has seem really fun and makes her look more flowy to play.

Her 4PP reminds me of Momiji's old 1PP from DOA5 Ultimate, and even though the sweep animation for her new 1P2K looks pretty much like Momiji's 1P2K, it's a needed move for her because she lacks low mix-ups (I was confused when I first saw it as to whether it was a move Tamaki originally had or if it was ported from Momiji's moveset lol). I'm also in love with her 66PK and 6P+KP additions, stuff like this just make her seem more enjoyable and fun to play with these new strings! It's a refreshing touch for sure.

Sadly my trashy laptop can't run DOA6++ and I'm planning to get an actual PC setup soon. When that happens I can actually lab and experience the changes myself. In the meantime I'm stuck playing the actual DOA6 game on my PS5 lol. With these ideas, I'm only going based off of what I think is possible from what I've seen so far on DOA6++ and what I know in the actual game. I'm also coming up with some ideas for other characters as well. I should definitely make my posts for those characters shorter oops LOL.

If you read this much (sorry it was super long I know LMAO), please let me know what y'all think! It was only this long because I inputted my reasoning and went in depth as if I were already in a discussion lol. Anyways, I'm loving the changes! Keep it up! <3
 
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Rev_an

Active Member
Her 4PP reminds me of Momiji's old 1PP from DOA5 Ultimate, and even though the sweep animation for her new 1P2K looks pretty much like Momiji's 1P2K, it's a needed move for her because she lacks low mix-ups (I was confused when I first saw it as to whether it was a move Tamaki originally had or if it was ported from Momiji's moveset lol). I'm also in love with her 66PK and 6P+KP additions, stuff like this just make her seem more enjoyable and fun to play with these new strings! It's a refreshing touch for sure.

Sadly my trashy laptop can't run DOA6++ and I'm planning to get an actual PC setup soon. When that happens I can actually lab and experience the changes myself. In the meantime I'm stuck playing the actual DOA6 game on my PS5 lol. With these ideas, I'm only going based off of what I think is possible from what I've seen so far on DOA6++ and what I know in the actual game. I'm also coming up with some ideas for other characters as well. I should definitely make my posts for those characters shorter oops LOL.

If you read this much (sorry it was super long I know LMAO), please let me know what y'all think! It was only this long because I inputted my reasoning and went in depth as if I were already in a discussion lol. Anyways, I'm loving the changes! Keep it up! <3
effort post love to see it.

those are in fact momiji moves, somebody at team ninja didn't clean up some files and unlike every other character, tamaki has copies of a decent chunk of momiji's kit in her data set. I think most of the ninja stuff isn't very suitable (both jump stances lol) but she was really hurting for moves so i used a couple that weren't too flashy.

i'm closing in on feature-complete for the next update so i don't expect to incorporate any of the suggestions immediately (2p+k might be pretty free). I think her mixup game is meant to revolve around the string OHs so i'm probably not going ham on those. i was looking into 6k4k as a to-bt and it's kinda wack so idk about those kick strings, but maybe they work better there. the challenge is often to resist making everyone into eliot.

good luck with the PC shopping

had some time i didn't expect so:

PPP2K, 3P2K: she doesn't have any mid->lows or any to-low strings besides pp2k and i'm wary of those.
PP6K: probably fine, remind me to make pp6p and this pp6k -9 or whatever though. all the strings i've added need block frames adjusted
PKK, 3KK : too fast, same issue as my 6k4k i was trying, and there's not really a way to fix that without ruining something else
6PKK, 4H+KK : maybe. she reverses leg direction in the recovery at the end so it can't be very delayable too. i'll have a look at it later, it's somewhat complicated to add interval to stuff
7PK: nah that shit is 11 frames it doesn't get a string, you wouldn't put a string on eliot's 7p
9PPK: too fast again, 9ppp is 26i, 2h+k is more appropriate and i might sneak that in
6KPP. 9PKPP: nah she can maybe *maybe* have one strike after 9pk and i don't necessarily want to make so many 50-50s
7KPK: would look real bad and inputs feel bad if they're delayed like any followup to 7k would be
4P+K2K: no mid-> lows and 4p+k is only -3 on block so it would compound changes to add a string on it (6ppp might be changing for that reason)
2P+K: sounds good, might sneak that in never mind, there's too much of the kick recovery on it
BT stuff: can't really do bt/ft switches like that because of how moves hook into animations and animations hook into the file system, that's why diego 4kp had so many issues too.
6PK6T, 4H+K6T (and 6K6T): all her string grabs are out of mid-punches and that seems deliberate like honoka's dragon stance always being on-hit

as a bonus, i thought of 8p p+k using one of momiji's endless duplicate jump punches if it doesn't look to silly as a non-mixup more damage not plus on block kinda thing since no-mixups aren't very risky to add.
 
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Collinyermom

New Member
effort post love to see it.

those are in fact momiji moves, somebody at team ninja didn't clean up some files and unlike every other character, tamaki has copies of a decent chunk of momiji's kit in her data set. I think most of the ninja stuff isn't very suitable (both jump stances lol) but she was really hurting for moves so i used a couple that weren't too flashy.

i'm closing in on feature-complete for the next update so i don't expect to incorporate any of the suggestions immediately (2p+k might be pretty free). I think her mixup game is meant to revolve around the string OHs so i'm probably not going ham on those. i was looking into 6k4k as a to-bt and it's kinda wack so idk about those kick strings, but maybe they work better there. the challenge is often to resist making everyone into eliot.

good luck with the PC shopping

had some time i didn't expect so:

PPP2K, 3P2K: she doesn't have any mid->lows or any to-low strings besides pp2k and i'm wary of those.
PP6K: probably fine, remind me to make pp6p and this pp6k -9 or whatever though. all the strings i've added need block frames adjusted
PKK, 3KK : too fast, same issue as my 6k4k i was trying, and there's not really a way to fix that without ruining something else
6PKK, 4H+KK : maybe. she reverses leg direction in the recovery at the end so it can't be very delayable too. i'll have a look at it later, it's somewhat complicated to add interval to stuff
7PK: nah that shit is 11 frames it doesn't get a string, you wouldn't put a string on eliot's 7p
9PPK: too fast again, 9ppp is 26i, 2h+k is more appropriate and i might sneak that in
6KPP. 9PKPP: nah she can maybe *maybe* have one strike after 9pk and i don't necessarily want to make so many 50-50s
7KPK: would look real bad and inputs feel bad if they're delayed like any followup to 7k would be
4P+K2K: no mid-> lows and 4p+k is only -3 on block so it would compound changes to add a string on it (6ppp might be changing for that reason)
2P+K: sounds good, might sneak that in never mind, there's too much of the kick recovery on it
BT stuff: can't really do bt/ft switches like that because of how moves hook into animations and animations hook into the file system, that's why diego 4kp had so many issues too.
6PK6T, 4H+K6T (and 6K6T): all her string grabs are out of mid-punches and that seems deliberate like honoka's dragon stance always being on-hit

as a bonus, i thought of 8p p+k using one of momiji's endless duplicate jump punches if it doesn't look to silly as a non-mixup more damage not plus on block kinda thing since no-mixups aren't very risky to add.
Thanks for taking the time to response, I appreciate it!

A lot of the stuff you said made sense, especially what you said about her 7P lol oopsies, most of these were just ideas to add in some possible strings. I realized after reading what you said that some of these were too much, and like you said, it isn't a good idea to make everyone into an Eliot and just reuse the same animations over and over. I just wish there were better ways to incorporate new moves without having to reuse the same animations in someone's move set.

Also I knew they started with making Tamaki into another Momiji, their fighting styles (Aikido/Aikijutsu) are super similar and would make sense that they would use Momiji's move set as a base for Tamaki's. Would be super cool if you were able to incorporate Momiji's jump punch thing you mentioned for Tamaki's 8P, or even some of Momiji's move animations you can find to add to Tamaki's move list!

I really do hope I can find a decent PC soon, I'm craving for new DOA content so bad ;-;
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
effort post love to see it.

those are in fact momiji moves, somebody at team ninja didn't clean up some files and unlike every other character, tamaki has copies of a decent chunk of momiji's kit in her data set. I think most of the ninja stuff isn't very suitable (both jump stances lol) but she was really hurting for moves so i used a couple that weren't too flashy.

i'm closing in on feature-complete for the next update so i don't expect to incorporate any of the suggestions immediately (2p+k might be pretty free). I think her mixup game is meant to revolve around the string OHs so i'm probably not going ham on those. i was looking into 6k4k as a to-bt and it's kinda wack so idk about those kick strings, but maybe they work better there. the challenge is often to resist making everyone into eliot.

good luck with the PC shopping

had some time i didn't expect so:

PPP2K, 3P2K: she doesn't have any mid->lows or any to-low strings besides pp2k and i'm wary of those.
PP6K: probably fine, remind me to make pp6p and this pp6k -9 or whatever though. all the strings i've added need block frames adjusted
PKK, 3KK : too fast, same issue as my 6k4k i was trying, and there's not really a way to fix that without ruining something else
6PKK, 4H+KK : maybe. she reverses leg direction in the recovery at the end so it can't be very delayable too. i'll have a look at it later, it's somewhat complicated to add interval to stuff
7PK: nah that shit is 11 frames it doesn't get a string, you wouldn't put a string on eliot's 7p
9PPK: too fast again, 9ppp is 26i, 2h+k is more appropriate and i might sneak that in
6KPP. 9PKPP: nah she can maybe *maybe* have one strike after 9pk and i don't necessarily want to make so many 50-50s
7KPK: would look real bad and inputs feel bad if they're delayed like any followup to 7k would be
4P+K2K: no mid-> lows and 4p+k is only -3 on block so it would compound changes to add a string on it (6ppp might be changing for that reason)
2P+K: sounds good, might sneak that in never mind, there's too much of the kick recovery on it
BT stuff: can't really do bt/ft switches like that because of how moves hook into animations and animations hook into the file system, that's why diego 4kp had so many issues too.
6PK6T, 4H+K6T (and 6K6T): all her string grabs are out of mid-punches and that seems deliberate like honoka's dragon stance always being on-hit

as a bonus, i thought of 8p p+k using one of momiji's endless duplicate jump punches if it doesn't look to silly as a non-mixup more damage not plus on block kinda thing since no-mixups aren't very risky to add.
For Tamaki's style, I personally think that any Ninja based acrobatics tho should be left out for her, I think Tamaki is a defensive more powerhouse version of Momiji who's less aerial than Momiji if that makes sense since I don't see Tamaki as flexible as Momiji is movement wise

I also personally think for her style Tamaki is fine imo but could maybe use a low or two since she reminds me of a DOA Lili, limited and slower but she specializes in counter hits and making her opponent second guess her infirmities since that flips when she's at an advantage

I would love Tamaki with Momiji's 6H+K tho, I feel it'd fit her
 

Rev_an

Active Member
For Tamaki's style, I personally think that any Ninja based acrobatics tho should be left out for her, I think Tamaki is a defensive more powerhouse version of Momiji who's less aerial than Momiji if that makes sense since I don't see Tamaki as flexible as Momiji is movement wise

I also personally think for her style Tamaki is fine imo but could maybe use a low or two since she reminds me of a DOA Lili, limited and slower but she specializes in counter hits and making her opponent second guess her infirmities since that flips when she's at an advantage

I would love Tamaki with Momiji's 6H+K tho, I feel it'd fit her
looks like that 6h+k animation got overwritten. 8p p+k kinda stuff didn't look right and 8pp already launches on danger floor so there isn't much of a niche

i did find a couple reasonable things to do (pp6pk doing 66p 8k ended up feeling incredibly boring so that'll be different) but the big thing she needs now is disadvantage on block adjustments for all these safe strings that have no business being so safe, and damage tweaks to put her in line with what i described at the beginning of all this regarding juggle diversity. iirc pppp does a little too much damage and 3pp needs to do a little more but that's just with respect to one launcher and weight class.
 
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Rev_an

Active Member
I was wondering if it would be possible to have characters share moves or have move-set combinations such as

Kasumi & Momiji
Tina & Rachel
Helena & Kokoro
Hitomi & Hayate
Mila & Zack
Zack & Rig
Ayane & Marie
Lisa & Tina
Lisa & Christie
Jann Lee & Rig
Marie & Leifang
Kokoro & Leifang
Hayabusa & Hayate
Bayman & Bass

And any other character move-set combinations you can think of
unfortunately because of how the data works i'm not actually porting moves like that, tamaki was built on top of a copy of momiji by the actual devs and they left a bunch of stuff lying around like strings that were cut off. i guess i could do more kasumi moves on phase 4 but that's not very interesting.

i can't even get tengu's 1p+k to play a voice clip yet because it doesn't have "permission" or something.

even if i did have free reign with that stuff the animation skeletons get weird, there's an unused 66p -> dragon stance on honoka but they didn't convert the animation from jann's so it deforms her body way too much to use. I did leave in 1kkpp for her and if you look closely you can see her levitating because it's trying to use lisa's height.

maybe someday somebody will figure out .g1a file editing but none of the attempts to do it with blender got anywhere useable.
 
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KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
unfortunately because of how the data works i'm not actually porting moves like that, tamaki was built on top of a copy of momiji by the actual devs and they left a bunch of stuff lying around like strings that were cut off. i guess i could do more kasumi moves on phase 4 but that's not very interesting.

i can't even get tengu's 1p+k to play a voice clip yet because it doesn't have "permission" or something.

even if i did have free reign with that stuff the animation skeletons get weird, there's an unused 66p -> dragon stance on honoka but they didn't convert the animation from jann's so it deforms her body way too much to use. I did leave in 1ppkk for her and if you look closely you can see her levitating because it's trying to use lisa's height.

maybe someday somebody will figure out .g1a file editing but none of the attempts to do it with blender got anywhere useable.
Agree, I think making characters combinations of one another is pretty boring imo at this point, we already have the ninjas who have a handful of shared reused moves, movesets based on one another with revisions and style changes like Bass/Tina, Kasumi/Phase, Momiji/Tamaki and Hayate/Hitomi and Honoka who's basically that.

I'd personally rather just see old moves restored or even reworks with certain attacks to make them useful since I'm sure almost everyone in the cast has at least one underused move or something that can be adjusted to switch up how a move can be used
 
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