Are holds used by everyone who plays or only skilled players?

[Raansu]

You'll be one of the ones I'll throwing trying to fish for holds. Funny part? I always get what I wanted when I do attempt a hold. Besides my main's holds are fucking awful. So an LOL to you sir
Remember when I said I pick when I want to hold? I hold the launcher or something before. This where you need to understand the hit levels for all the characters in the game. Shit like Zack's 3p get mistaken for a high tons of times even though it hits mid.

Do you even think before you type or are you just consistently stupid? When you get put into a deep stun that can't be SE'd the game forces you to hold because 90% of the time its better to risk getting thrown than it is to eat a launcher that will take 50-60% of your health.

 

[Jefffcore]

You'll be one of the ones I'll throwing trying to fish for holds. Funny part? I always get what I wanted when I do attempt a hold. Besides my main's holds are fucking awful. So an LOL to you sir
Remember when I said I pick when I want to hold? I hold the launcher or something before. This where you need to understand the hit levels for all the characters in the game. Shit like Zack's 3p get mistaken for a high tons of times even though it hits mid.

That doesn't really make sense. You can pick when you wanna hold, but if you wanna play intelligently you'll hold. There's no reason that 3p should be mistaken for a high. You're playing people that aren't good at the game, you can't base your opinion on that.

 

[Julius Rage]

In most cases you either lose half your life from a combo, or you risk losing less than half your life from getting thrown and trying to hold.

You're forced to hold every time you get put into a stun.

Depends on who you're fighting.

Against certain characters you're better off looking for the launcher or CB ( Busa, Koko, Bass and any grappler.)

And if you know that charcter you're fighting against and you understand whats Slow escapable and what isn't and then you could play the way Havik plays and be confident that you won't drown in a torrent of stuns.

It also depends on who you're playing - you can't put precentages on things in DOA because the game gives the player the ability to play how he likes and still be generally successful within his competitive class.

I could come out like a bull in a china shop with Zack and everytime you hold I could throw out his 214T or 2T and evetually you'll have to consider slow escaping more or I could look for his gauranteed sit down to 33KK over and over.

It'll all work if you don't catch on.

 

[MasterHavik]

Do you even think before you type or are you just consistently stupid? When you get put into a deep stun that can't be SE'd the game forces you to hold because 90% of the time its better to risk getting thrown than it is to eat a launcher that will take 50-60% of your health.

i do think...do you think before you type are you just an asshole?

That doesn't really make sense. You can pick when you wanna hold, but if you wanna play intelligently you'll hold. There's no reason that 3p should be mistaken for a high. You're playing people that aren't good at the game, you can't base your opinion on that.

Depends on who you're fighting.

Against certain characters you're better off looking for the launcher or CB ( Busa, Koko, Bass and any grappler.)

And if you know that charcter you're fighting against and you understand whats Slow escapable and what isn't and then you could play the way Havik plays and be confident that you won't drown in a torrent of stuns.

It also depends on who you're playing - you can't put precentages on things in DOA because the game gives the player the ability to play how he likes and still be generally successful within his competitive class.

I could come out like a bull in a china shop with Zack and everytime you hold I could throw out his 214T or 2T and evetually you'll have to consider slow escaping more or I could look for his gauranteed sit down to 33KK over and over.

It'll all work if you don't catch on.

You know I had some fancy counter attack plan out, but JR pretty much cover what I said. So yeah pick your spots man. Now back to breaking backs with Zack online.

 

[Jefffcore]

Julius didn't really say anything. The game is all guessing, you can take a chance and take the same damage if you're wrong, depending on the situation you're in. You don't HAVE to do anything you don't want to, but if you don't hold you're gonna keep eating CB's.

 

[Julius Rage]

Julius didn't really say anything. The game is all guessing, you can take a chance and take the same damage if you're wrong, depending on the situation you're in. You don't HAVE to do anything you don't want to, but if you don't hold you're gonna keep eating CB's.

The game isn't all guessing - reaction speed is a factor and proper punishment always equals damage.

You could go a whole round without holding and if the opponent doesn't catch onto the fact that you're not countering and just SEing you'll probably not eat a CB that round.

Watch real sports people, very little is guaranteed.

 

[Jefffcore]

Reaction does, definitely, but punishment is really bad in DOA. There's also amounts of guessing in punishment because of string delay.

 

[Raansu]

The game isn't all guessing - reaction speed is a factor and proper punishment always equals damage.

You could go a whole round without holding and if the opponent doesn't catch onto the fact that you're not countering and just SEing you'll probably not eat a CB that round.

Watch real sports people, very little is guaranteed.

real sports =/= video games.

 

[HiguraShiki]

The game isn't all guessing - reaction speed is a factor and proper punishment always equals damage.

You could go a whole round without holding and if the opponent doesn't catch onto the fact that you're not countering and just SEing you'll probably not eat a CB that round.

Watch real sports people, very little is guaranteed.

Why are you always comparing two completely different things.

 

[Julius Rage]

real sports =/= video games.

Sport is sport.

Football =/= Baseball

Chess =/= Poker

Tekken =/= DOA

and yet all are played competitively - look up the definition of sport, sport.

 

[Julius Rage]

Why are you always comparing two completely different things.

Because I'm an intellgent man who can see obvious parrallels.

 

[HiguraShiki]

 

[Jefffcore]

DOA =/= Anything

The same fundamentals carry across all FG's... Except DOA

 

[Julius Rage]

DOA =/= Anything

The same fundamentals carry across all FG's... Except DOA

Fighting game FUNDAMENTALS

1) Blocking
2) Spacing
3) Punishment

DOA has all of those things and if you cannot do all of them at a high level you're not going to be beating upper echelon players once everyone is familiar with the entire roster. As an example spacing in KOF is slightly different than in SF because everybody has an evasive roll and a suite of jumping options.

In SF its about setting up shop at the proper range for your characters normals and, idealy, getting him to a corner were you can move in and out.

The corner is important in all fighters but less so in KOF (Character dependent of course.)

All fighters are not created equally.

Mensa is never going to be looking for you kid.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Fighting game FUNDAMENTALS

1) Blocking
2) Spacing
3) Punishment

DOA has all of those things and if you cannot do all of them at a high level you're not going to be beating upper echelon players once everyone is familiar with the entire roster. As an example spacing in KOF is slightly different than in SF because everybody has an evasive roll and a suite of jumping options.

In SF its about setting up shop at the proper range for your characters normals and, idealy, getting him to a corner were you can move in and out.

The corner is important in all fighters but less so in KOF (Character dependent of course.)

All fighters are not created equally.

Doa revolves around using the stun game to your advantage and guessing between a mid punch, mid kick, high, low, grab, or low grab. Once you get stunned, there is no way to get out of it aside from guessing. Unfortunately you seem to understand that no other fighting game goes by a stun system except doa. Instead you continue to compare skill levels of different games such as chess and sports which not only go by a completely different set of rules, but barely have anything in common with fighting games in general. The only thing you are really saying all these different stuff have in common is that they are competitive. You continue to disregard other people's take on things when they have actually researched this stuff on their own whereas you just deny them just for the sake of doing it.

 

[SilverKhaos]

I see it as...three types of players doing three types of holds.


The brand new beginners just jam counters hoping they will work.

Intermediate players try to do counters on reaction.

Skilled players perform holds for moves they already know are coming, as in, they've predicted and anticipated the opponent's playstyle and methods.

 

[SilverKhaos]

Honestly, I use holds like I should use blocking. I never, ever block. It is the biggest issue I have. I just am in this mentality that if I block one move, I'll just get thrown. Certainly not the case. So I just hold and hold. I lose a lot of life that way.

I'm the say way, if only because when I block, then i can't really punish because the opponent is usually using a speedy characters like Christie or the Ninjas, so I can't punish because they can continue attacking faster than I can stop blocking and do anything else.

 

[HiguraShiki]

I'm the say way, if only because when I block, then i can't really punish because the opponent is usually using a speedy characters like Christie or the Ninjas, so I can't punish because they can continue attacking faster than I can stop blocking and do anything else.

If you block, you can punish their next move since they are at negative frames. This applies to the ninja's too. Hayate is unsafe in virtually everything, ryu is the same, he only relies on spacing and mindgames with a few crushes. Kasumi is unsafe if she goes for her longer strings or ends with a 2K. The only ninja that really fits your description is Ayane, but even she can be punished after block.

 

[Julius Rage]

Doa revolves around using the stun game to your advantage and guessing between a mid punch, mid kick, high, low, grab, or low grab. Once you get stunned, there is no way to get out of it aside from guessing. Unfortunately you seem to understand that no other fighting game goes by a stun system except doa. Instead you continue to compare skill levels of different games such as chess and sports which not only go by a completely different set of rules, but barely have anything in common with fighting games in general. The only thing you are really saying all these different stuff have in common is that they are competitive. You continue to disregard other people's take on things when they have actually researched this stuff on their own whereas you just deny them just for the sake of doing it.

No I understand perfectly that I'm playing DOA and if I want to play something else then I will.

But I like DOA - and I like Tekken, and VF, and SF, and KOF. . .and I like Fighting Vipers, and Rage of the Dragons, and Evil Zone. . .but I really don't like Rumble Fish and I don't like Killer Instinct Gold , so I don't play them.

The fact is and I've been saying it for a long fucking time, if you want DOA to play like everything else then go play everything else. DOA is its own game and if you're this annoyed by the core concepts of the series then you should probably think about packing it up.

And if you can't see the similarities between video games and other types of sports. . .well, they have these things called buses and they come in all kinds of sizes - find one that closest to the size of your brain and get on it.

 

[HiguraShiki]

The fact is and I've been saying it for a long fucking time, if you want DOA to play like everything else then go play everything else. DOA is its own game and if you're this annoyed by the core concepts of the series then you should probably think about packing it up.

And if you can't see the similarities between video games and other types of sports. . .well, they have these things called buses and they come in all kinds of sizes - find one that closest to the size of your brain and get on it.

No one is talking about the similarities between anything and DOA but you. I don't know WHY you are talking about it because it doesn't prove anything at all and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
The topic being Once you get stunned, you are forced to hold a majority of the time. If you try slow escaping, you will end up eating everything the person throws at you.
You are forced to guess between holding or not holding to avoid a grab. That has nothing to do with a persons skill at all, it is making an educated GUESS and praying that you are correct.