DOA5U Combo topic standardization?

[Drake Aldan]

With the release of DOA5U I decided to get back into the game after a long hiatus. Seeing as things are relatively new to me (along with system changes and what have you) I've been recently shopping around for a main.

One thing that I've noticed, perusing the forums, is that the combo topics come in all sorts of different shapes and sizes. Some are still carrying vanilla combos that don't work now, and others have useful bits of information buried deeply within (i.e. requiring some digging to unearth and use). Some are better served still by ignoring the forums altogether, and looking at old AiN combo videos (shouts out to him for putting out combo guides for the new characters).

I don't feel this bodes well for the general state of things; I feel that if new players or players studying matchup data or even people just wanting to see "the other side of the pond" want to pick up a character quickly, they should at least be able to see the most up-to-date combos in an easy-to-read format. I try to namedrop FSD to struggling players where I can but I'd hate for them to come here and there be nothing for them.

So, if such a thing existed, how should it look like, and how should it be implemented? Over at 8WR we have some semblance of this with our Soul Arenas, with one "stickied" topic containing updated or proven combos, and one separate topic to discuss newfound combos, quirks, or odd tech, etc. But, at the same time, we also have character moderators whose sole job is to stay on top of these things and keep the main informational topics updated.

Should a combo listing be placed in the Wiki, instead? It would not require bestowing any moderation powers, as anyone could reformat or update combos immediately after discovery. I would imagine that making these listings would actually be much easier than inputting frame data, as a comparison (though as Mr. Wah has informed me there is actually solid standardization for that in place).

What are your thoughts?

 

[StrikerSashi]

I think for something like DOA, we really just need optimal juggles at each stun threshold and weight class with each viable launcher and a list of moves that are good to use in stun. As for format, I like wiki.

 

[LoK N Ki]

One of the big problems is that whenever you step in a character forum there are no stickied topics, at all. It's all over the place eventhough the information might be there. The wiki format is good but tbh it is not the first thing people will look at when searching for information for a characters, especially if one is new to FSD.

 

[Aspect]

I agree with Striker: list out the most optimal combos for each weight class for each launcher and launch height, Safe pokes, and important tools. I think the formatting atm is pretty good.

 

[d3v]

People need to be more active in the character forums in general.

 

[Awesmic]

People need to be more active in the character forums in general.

My guess is that some players who do want to help probably don't bother because they think they'll be showed up by the high-level players at the slightest mistake.

 

[Pokerking87]

People need to be more active in the character forums in general.

It depends on the character i think. Look at the Tina topic they help each other and then on other sides death topics (Jann)
I would posting more in this topics but when i get no response then i dont care! I do my own thing!

 

[d3v]

My guess is that some players who do want to help probably don't bother because they think they'll be showed up by the high-level players at the slightest mistake.

It depends on the character i think. Look at the Tina topic they help each other and then on other sides death topics (Jann)
I would posting more in this topics but when i get no response then i dont care! I do my own thing!

It really annoys me when it seems that there's only one or two threads that are active in the Christie sub-forum.

 

[Pokerking87]

It really annoys me when it seems that there's only one or two threads that are active in the Christie sub-forum.

Active? I mean the Christie topic is nearly dead and thats what i mean with no response. I upload now a video on my channel that can be pretty helpful, but i dont upload here more anything.

 

[d3v]

I was trying to point it out nicely, but yes, that sub-forum is as good as dead.

 

[Drake Aldan]

Would only optimal combos be listed? I know in some cases, it's good to have both high-damage and high-knockback combos for purposes of wall carry. Should some "easy" (i.e. suboptimal) combos be listed as well, or should those players be left to fend for themselves? ("Easy" might just be using heavyweight combos only, so maybe that is redundant...)

I am thinking that everything should use the smilies, since they require no notational training to understand (being the same as in-game commands). As a sidenote, using should be avoided since people know to mean , but doesn't "officially" exist in DOA anymore, right?

So, here's what I can see to be the candidates for inclusion:

- Launchers
- Stun threshold classification
- Weight class
- Damage (Should damage be listed? Depending on the initial stun used damage can be variable... Some people list Counter/Hi-Counter damage; should this be included as well?)
- Critical Burst setups
- "Custom" Critical Burst setups (How should this be configured? Is the objective to reach CB as quickly as possible?)
- Post-Critical Burst combos
- Wall launchers
- Wall combos
- Guaranteed/2-in-1s (Should this be included or be in frame data? How hard or easy is it to test for this?)
- Environmental/Stage combos
- Combo footnotes/commentary (Should "free cancel" inputs be included in the standard combo listing, or should it just be mentioned here like a FAQ of sorts?)

Am I missing anything?

The wiki format is good but tbh it is not the first thing people will look at when searching for information for a characters, especially if one is new to FSD.

That should be easy enough to solve, just make another topic that links to the wiki, like the frame data. Though, that is just more clicking... But what can you do, you know?

My guess is that some players who do want to help probably don't bother because they think they'll be showed up by the high-level players at the slightest mistake.

I do understand the reasoning, but that is a good thing.

As long as the truth comes out for everyone to see, my feelings don't matter.

(Of course being called out and then not told why is something different altogether...)

 

[David Gregg]

I think it's a good idea. Eliot thread is basically dead now. (#no_surpise)

 

[RiBu]

Did a DOA5U combo thread for Jann Lee... Would like for people to check it out, and let me know if I need to change anything/missed anything...

 

[d3v]

Wall carry should be separate from optimized combos.

Another thing, combos going to CB need to actually define the bits where you mix up. Also, while we're at it, can we agree that combos that have multiple points where you can be held out of are NOT optimized. We should all be going for guaranteed damage. A combo where you expose yourself to multiple chances to hold is NOT a BNB simply because it will eventually be countered if you constantly use it. Try to limit practical hold points to only one or two places in the combo (preferably with the second one where you can just CB anyway). For example, with Christie's NH JAK,,,(CB),,, (99 damage), the only practical points to counter hold are after the JAK, minimizing the time your exposed to hold. As such, it would be better to list the combo as NH JAK,,(mid K)/(mid P)/(high)/(mid P),(CB),,, listing all the single hit normals that will bring you to max critical threshold allowing you to CB.

Other considerations would be the wall and slope. For example, the combo listed about does not work against the wall as the juggle will wallsplat. In that situation, works better as the juggle as it does the same damage, and the wall makes the last hit even on heavy opponents. As for slope, some combos will not work uphill, and some will work better downhill. Again, using Christie as an example, ,, only works downhill. The follow up to the JAK sidestep will whiff on level ground and uphill since the opponent will already have hit the ground.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I agree with the notion, but that notation takes effort to read. Just list the mixup options on different lines with completely different setups with an additional line break. A lot of characters don't have critical burst setups without 3+ spots to hold, though.

 

[Drake Aldan]

A combo where you expose yourself to multiple chances to hold is NOT a BNB simply because it will eventually be countered if you constantly use it.

Well, I mean, it's just part of the game, isn't it? If you want guaranteed, you go for stun > launch, some characters are better than that at others... If you use a combo that has hold chances (even just one or two) then really your aim is not landing the combo at all, but baiting out a Hi-Counter Throw opportunity. In some cases you want to give your opponent as many chances (or as many obvious tells) to hold as possible, so that they can get comfortable and lulled into a false sense of security... Don't get me wrong, I agree in reaching CB quickly, (or bypassing it altogether if possible) but there's an implicit assumption within combo topics (at least my viewpoint, anyway) that you should be abusing the triangle system as well.

I agree with the notion, but that notation takes effort to read. Just list the mixup options on different lines with completely different setups with an additional line break.

I generally do this. Staggered bullets and the like seem to work well.

 

[Saber]

When I post combos, I don't care much about CB setups, because they're pretty much a DIY thing. I'll give a list of main stun extenders (maybe 2 from each hit level) with the stun frames on fastest SE, but that's it.

People needn't post full combos (my personal pet peeve). Just the juggle itself is fine. Mandatory details should be weight class, damage and from what Critical Level. Extra details include stance (note whether it's exclusive to open or closed stance) and whether it works against wall, or if it needs a wall.

The only exception to the rule is if it is a sitdown stun (or any kind of unholdable stun) into a guaranteed launch combo (meaning fastest SE, people).

If we're talking about organisation, @TakedaZX 's Hayate combo section is a pretty good template.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Yeah, I agree. Like I said before, optimal juggles and stun game tools are good enough. Obviously specific setups like Kokoro's old 8P6P 236P 66 7P would also be included.

EDIT: I'd like for some "example" combos posted, though, to give new players an idea of how to make their own combos.

 

[d3v]

Depends, sometimes having a reliable CB setup can allow you good options, like using Power ows for comebacks.

Also, on a related topic, something that's been bothering more than a few of us older players is that people forget one important part of a BnB - the fact that it should be easy to do. Too many folks posting too many combos and passing them off as BnBs without taking a look at other considerations such as execution requirement, character specific timings and stage circumstances.

 

[Tenryuga]

Looking for some suggestions to maybe make my threads more organized or things I should add to them:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...y-doa5u-kasumi-combo-thread.3280/#post-120062

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/good-vibration-the-ein-juggle-thread.3276/