Competitive balance: DOA5U mechanics changes

[TakedaZX]

As for me with wanting holds tweeked. I would like them to make it so that if tou hold wrong your only options are to block or SS. I don't like the fact that people can whiff a hold and hold again. Or whiff s hold (hold incorrectly) and hit buttons and still be able to beat the offensive player out. There needs to be a fine line between holds so they can't be spammed w/o thinking. Also with regards to throws. Dont know how you all feel about this but, if a player in my eyes is going to SE and either hold a move if they see it coming or block. And the other player decides to throw. The one IN STUN shouldn't be allowed to attack out of stun and HCH the one throwing they should be forced to fuzzy guard and/or duck and react accordingly imo. That's my thoughts on that.

That was the beauty of universal offensive holds. Not open to bullshit like attacking out of stun and if you stayed guarding you got beaten by a OH still because it was a throw at heart.

I don't see why that aspect needs to be only available to grapplers though but apparently it must be.

 

[Koompbala]

Old news. Chill out.

Why was I quoted??? You quoted me then yourself in the same post and then went into something else that I didn't even bother read. I just wanna know how any of that has to do with me?

 

[Zekiel]

Yo

Yo

I guess for experienced players no TE doesnt matter. All im a say is this. Because the game is centered around throw punishment, me being a Jacky player, realised that half of his command list will be punishable lol. Its going to be a pain in the ass. I'll explain in detail to everyone.
n VF5FS Jacky does the most damage out of all character combo wise. But because of this, jacky's strings and mixups are basic and the majority of his strings end with highs. Players tend to constantly try to high crush his moves with lows. But there not always succesful because jacky has alot of EX highs. EX highs are moves in strings that crush low attempts, like DP, Low sweeps etc. This allowed jacky some dmg with moves not being interupted. But in DOA those dont exist, there gone from his hit type! All players will try to attack low alot which means me or others who want to main jacky will have

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I really don't get what that has to do with me or what I said, but I think you're looking at this game the wrong way. This is DOA, this isn't VF. The move properties will likely be different. It sounds like you're overthinking this and are getting worried. The other VF characters are pretty solid in DOA5 and I see no reason why Jacky would be any worse.

If you're worried about throw punishment, don't throw out unsafe moves! Poke or use advantage-giving moves like guard breaks until you can score a CH. They can't get rid of throw punishment, through having Throw Breaks, just because you want to main an "unsafe" character. Should Tekken get rid of Launch Punishment? Believe me, it hurts ALOT more than DOA's Throw Punishment.

 

[Zekiel]

to constantly hit confirm EVERYTHING. Luckily though he has a jump mid kick like the other VF characters for crushing. However Jacky's moves alot of them not all are -7 or higher on block. Which is where punishment starts i presume. These moves are all his strings + knockdowns like his Another1 1PK or Dash Hammer 66k. But some are pass -7 but he can go into his Slide Shuffle. But those mostly come from circular highs. I think your starting to get my point.

So for all you players that want to pick up jacky be prepared the DOA system will not treat him kindly. I dont think there any other characters who will have this dilemma. Still jacky is my character and i wont drop him.

 

[Zekiel]

I really don't get what that has to do with me or what I said, but I think you're looking at this game the wrong way. This is DOA, this isn't VF. The move properties will likely be different. It sounds like you're overthinking this and are getting worried. The other VF characters are pretty solid in DOA5 and I see no reason why Jacky would be any worse.

If you're worried about throw punishment, don't throw out unsafe moves! Poke or use advantage-giving moves like guard breaks until you can score a CH. They can't get rid of throw punishment, throu

You dont get it but im not surprised. Continue reading my second post i wasnt done. But VF players know exactly what im talking about. Also i ddnt want to erase throw punishment entirely. I want it like berzerk said. But w/e lol You'll see when the game drops. You'll pick your brains out trying to use him without getting punished.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

If it makes you feel better. -7 is punished by neutral throws, which CAN be broken. I guarantee that Jacky will turn out just fine. DOA's throw punishment is what differentiates it from other 3D fighters. I don't want that aspect to get mucked with because strike punishment can be inconsistent in this game.

 

[TakedaZX]

Why was I quoted??? You quoted me then yourself in the same post and then went into something else that I didn't even bother read. I just wanna know how any of that has to do with me?

I quoted you to show the issue had already been addressed (by you) about people constantly correcting him. Nothing big.

 

[Gill Hustle]

As for me with wanting holds tweeked. I would like them to make it so that if tou hold wrong your only options are to block or SS. I don't like the fact that people can whiff a hold and hold again. Or whiff s hold (hold incorrectly) and hit buttons and still be able to beat the offensive player out. There needs to be a fine line between holds so they can't be spammed w/o thinking. Also with regards to throws. Dont know how you all feel about this but, if a player in my eyes is going to SE and either hold a move if they see it coming or block. And the other player decides to throw. The one IN STUN shouldn't be allowed to attack out of stun and HCH the one throwing they should be forced to fuzzy guard and/or duck and react accordingly imo. That's my thoughts on that.

Since Holds are gonna do more damage this would be a nice tradeoff. .

 

[TakedaZX]

Since Holds are gonna do more damage this would be a nice tradeoff. .

Only problem is something like that only happens because of the triangle system itself. You do a throw and I spam the uppercut input after you deep stunned me... I win.

The question is how do we walk around this triangle system without breaking it?

 

[StrikerSashi]

Obtain hella yomi.

 

[grap3fruitman]

The question is how do we walk around this triangle system without breaking it?

It's already a broken fucking mess.

 

[David Gregg]

The question is how do we walk around this triangle system without breaking it?

But the problem is that the triangle system IS broken during stuns and it's in the wrong person's favor. Once I've put you in a stun we both know that I can only attack so you're going to either block or hold. This allows you to better predict my next attack. Now I understand that each time a player fails to counter their recovery time becomes longer but it's still a MAJOR disadvantage for the player who should be getting rewarded in this situation.

If it changes so that the opponent only gets one shot to counter it seems to me like it would work out better. The players who are actually reading their opponents and have a good idea of which move is coming next will most likely be unaffected by this change but the spammers now will have to rethink their strategy and choose their holds more carefully.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Are we going back to DOA2/3 hold damage, though? If so, I guess 300 sounds okay, but unless power launchers don't allow for higher damage than most CB combos, then it would be kinda weird.

 

[Zeo]

Vanilla DOA2 hold damage was essentially one hi-counter hold = one third of your health bar. So yeah, no.

 

[Brute]

But the problem is that the triangle system IS broken during stuns and it's in the wrong person's favor.

Attacker has more advantage than the defender when someone is stunned, and thus the odds are in their favor. Every option the defender has the attacker has an option as well, plus more (one option from the attacker is more likely to beat out multiple options from the defender than the other way around). The pay off for most of these options on the attacker's side (from a smart player) is higher than the payoff for a successful option on the defender's side. The attacker has more options than the defender from a stun situation, and thus has the advantage and is favored. Not as much advantage as it should be, but advantage nonetheless.

May be a semantics thing, but the way it was written was strange.

 

[UncleKitchener]

It was usually around ninety-something, close to a hundred. A few characters in the game do have those sorts of holds, but in DOA2, pretty much everyone could do that sort of hold damage which was originally for universal double-direction holds in the arcade version.

If holds are balanced around a character's strengths, weaknesses, tools and weight class in terms of damage, you can have reasonable hold damage like in DOA5.

 

[Berzerk!]

Hold damage is ok in existing DOA5 but should not be increased. A decrease is still warranted. An increase in Hold damage would NOT warrant an increase in Life setting - you still have to combo your opponent all day, it makes no sense to not have players rewarded for making good reads and plowing out damage.
Lets say a full CB combo is successfully landed - the attacker who succeeds in doing that should NOT be facing an opponent with nearly 3/4 life left, which is what happens with 300 life. He should have done 50% or so and be ready to close out the round in 2-3 more setups most.

As for the idea of dealing with Hold spamming, we do NOT need to suggest anything like restricting whether to be able to do holds again after a hold (a cool down).

There is a much more elegant system for this already built into the game and that is simply the recovery of the hold.

Increase the recovery so missing holds gets you Punished.

Keep the damage relatively low, and people will use it when they need to.

Those are the two simple levers they have. Ideally I'd like the stun system adjustment we've suggested too, which increases the stun threshhold a step anytime someone is hit while in counter hold recovery.

 

[David Gregg]

The attacker has more options than the defender from a stun situation, and thus has the advantage and is favored. Not as much advantage as it should be, but advantage nonetheless.

I mean I understand what you're saying but I guess after hearing about the increased damage on holds I was worried especially for me it still feels like I'm putting my finger in a shark tank every time I approach a stunned opponent. I guess we'll just have to wait to see how it plays out in ultimate.

 

[Brute]

I mean I understand what you're saying but I guess after hearing about the increased damage on holds I was worried especially for me it still feels like I'm putting my finger in a shark tank every time I approach a stunned opponent. I guess we'll just have to wait to see how it plays out in ultimate.

Don't let there be any confusion: I'm just as opposed to increasing hold damage as anyone else here is. I just like to be realistic about who is at advantage when. If you feel like you're options are too limited against a stunned opponent, try being a stunned opponent against a poker with reset set-ups. It becomes clear that being in stun sucks.