You defend by blocking ... waiting for an opening and then going for the punish.
How is that any different from any other fighting game ?
if you like pressing too many buttons, play dance dance revolution.
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How is that any different from any other fighting game ?
if you like pressing too many buttons, play dance dance revolution.
Blaze this is a competitive fighting game there are going to be situations like that,all that means is your opponent is fucking up.it fucking sucks when i start getting wailed on by zack's low kicks but i prefer that 100x over someone going easy on me.
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
Thats not the point. The point is, is that some characters have too many of them in the first place.
And second WTF does that have to do with anything?...... *Facepalm*
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
Your excuse for not using FTs is thay you "feel like a bully"¿ Oh my God this is quite possibly the worst thing I've heard you say in my entire time in the site. Blaze, DOA5 is a fighting game, the objective of the game is not to be nice, not sportsmanship, not to be friendly. The objective is to fucking win the matches, if I want to win, I have to hit you hard, throw you, use the mechanics in my favor until I achieve that win. FT is a solid mechanic that gives me advantage and ALSO eliminates the option of my opponent wake-up kicking me.
Stop this retarded scrub mentality of "sportsmanship" and "being nice". This is not what these games are about. People who say this crap are the reason some of our games end up being crappy.
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
Why are people so scared of wake-ups?
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
And why should that matter? Why don't you just block the wakeup kick?
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
It's not worth discussing this with you. You're not gonna change opinions anyway and will still come back with your "feel like a bully" comments. I'd rather spend my time trying to communicate with Team NINJA, putting my grain salt so even players like you have a good game at the end of the day.
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
Ok bro. Say what you THINK you know.
KidArk
Active Member
Set the scene , Bass vs Kasumi A , for reasons unbeknownst to me someone actually uses Bass against Kasumi , he works his ass off to get the first knockdown of the match , he reads wake up wrong and gets stuck in Kasumi's pressure and loses the round with NO optional move to get out NO DP nothing but block duck and hope she button mashes wrong. This is a world without force techs, you go play a good Kasumi with Bass and watch her wake up jab you.
If you're not afraid of the wake up kick , why do you block it, contradictory there a bit.
I know for a fact that with the exception of US, EU, Berzerk and Taiwan, no one really gives a shit or knows this character at all, so I'm guessing the person using him probably didn't know how to play Bass in the first place.
If what Synce is saying is true, then you're looking at possibly the worst character in the game when it comes to match-ups. You have a risky linear string with shit mix-up that has an average start-up for a mid (i14) and taking away the hard knock-down would reduce its usefulness to being a very unsafe poke with predictable follow-ups. If other similar moves have also lost their hard knock-down properties, then playing this character will be equivalent of playing a musical instrument with no hands.
However, I have a theory regarding all this; this could all be a build where these changes where made specifically to measure public reaction to these changes, so this could all be temporary. It's not even July yet and there could be a whole lot more they could be doing rather than screwing up with a character's main toolset.
Also, if this was actually true, then we're looking at the scenario KidArk posted and I know for a fact that Mr. Wah would have tried his hardest to prevent this from happening, unless Bass magically turns into a Fist Of The North Star character, which I highly doubt. He can't win the popularity contest anyway.
This is not something where you can just go "Oh, it's alright, I'm sure he can pull something else out of his ass to help with his bad match-ups". No, it would be very bad and no one would play him, since he's already an unpopular character as it is.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I just have to say something to not lose it.
D Glock
Well-Known Member
Raansu
Well-Known Member
D Glock
Well-Known Member
LMFAO! I actually went ahead and pushed the blue button. Good stuff.
Since TRI Mike is reluctant to answer the question, I'll answer it.
Blaze, remember that one post where I replied to Argentus (possibly Degalon) that a handful of people liked for some strange reason? If not, I'll elaborate a bit further on what I said. Blocking the wakeup kick resets the advantage the pursuing player has to neutral, and in turn gives the defending player room to breathe because of its frames of invincibility on the wakeup kick, forcing the pursuing player to guess his/her options from the neutral zone all over again. Assuming the former doesn't have a health lead over the latter, that presents a problem when it comes to turning the tide, especially with players who don't have many fast attacks. One wrong guess could cost him/her the round, or heaven forbid, the match.
The only way the player on the offensive can regain the momentum in the case of wakeup kicks is successfully applying the damage priority vs. wakeup kick rule.... meaning if you have a mid launcher that has higher damage than the wakeup kick itself and they're executed at the same time of impact, the launcher takes priority. But this option is not one everyone can use consistently, hence why many go for the FT options to maintain advantage and keep the pressure going.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Force Tech. Not pick up.
I don't know why you guys keep pulling stuff out of thin air. I'd like very much to talk with the guy making these claims, because everything I've heard states otherwise.
Yeah, this is what I'm having trouble believing. He can probably only get a ground throw similar to how he can only get a ground throw after
in a juggle. That would pretty much be like playing him in DOA3.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
It's much more likely that these FT situations are replicated by the same gameplay mechanic changes that took place in the original 1.03 patch (you remember, the glitchy one on PSN that everybody loved?). If you folks recall, FT's in general got removed off of ground slam attacks. They did, however, leave enough advantage to get ground throws.
This is what I believe the situation is currently. It is consistent with the experimentation that TN did in the past with it, and with everything I've been hearing myself.
Ironically, this is actually a buff to Bass because it gives him easier access to circumventing the wakeup kick than the rest of the cast. Even during the 1.03 period, the cast still had access to DOA 4 style force techs that were dependent upon moment-of-ground-impact attacks landing. So it's not like they've been totally removed or anything.
So everyone please curb the hysteria and let's stop spreading misinformation. It's like every time you guys take something it goes around the room and its completely evolved into something else by the time it comes full circle.
This is what I believe the situation is currently. It is consistent with the experimentation that TN did in the past with it, and with everything I've been hearing myself.
Ironically, this is actually a buff to Bass because it gives him easier access to circumventing the wakeup kick than the rest of the cast. Even during the 1.03 period, the cast still had access to DOA 4 style force techs that were dependent upon moment-of-ground-impact attacks landing. So it's not like they've been totally removed or anything.
So everyone please curb the hysteria and let's stop spreading misinformation. It's like every time you guys take something it goes around the room and its completely evolved into something else by the time it comes full circle.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
What's gonna happen to Tina then¿ Her ground throws suck balls and even if I can get them guaranteed sometimes, I'd rather take the +22 8P gives me any day because I just know it's better. Bayman's ground throws are pretty good so you probably are OK with going for the raw damage they offer but in Tina's case, they're pretty weak.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Not really.
The damage is comparable, apart from Bayman's forward roll into ground throw which does substantially more but is super situational. Aside from that one example, Tina's are actually better. Why? For example, most of her ground throws can be done from whiff punishment situations off of a simple 6H+K, and after the ground throw is done, gives her more than enough time to safely back away and ignore the wakeup kick threat, possibly even punishing it if it is whiffed with another 6H+K.
For Bayman, in every situation after a "standard" ground throw (meaning one he didn't roll into) he is susceptible to the wakeup kick game. He cannot really get them easily from whiff punishment situations, and he is too slow to back out of wakeup kick range after the throw. He is 100% vulnerable afterwards and has to defend properly if he wants to re-acquire pressure. Tina does not have that problem.