Did they nerf juggles in DOA6?

#1
Was this done to compensate for the stun-launch height being readjusted to DOA3 standards, where the launch height no longer depends on the stun threshold?

In DOA5, IIRC, all strikes to a juggled opponent dealt 40% damage, no matter how long the juggle was. In DOA6, looking at the Move Details, it decreases with each subsequent strike, moreso if you use a Break Hold cancel. Not to mention, with the exception of Phase 4 and Eliot, most characters have received countless nerfs to relauncher heights - Hitomi's 4KK, 7PK (and variants), Kasumi's 66KK, Kokoro's 8PP, Hayate's 663P and 6P+K~4K, etc. I noticed these because I play these characters; I haven't played the rest extensively yet, but Helena is also greatly nerfed with Bokuho 4PK with the little I dabbled in her. Phase-4 and Eliot are relatively untouched, though Phase-4's damage output is significantly worse now due to how damage scaling works.

Strike-heavy characters now feel noticeably weaker as a result, which means that despite the stun-launch change, the net gain is basically zero if damage for juggles in DOA5 and DOA6 are the same, regardless of "launch height" and "juggle length". This also means that the payoff for the stun game is zero (negative if you're unlucky), since launch height does not increase with stun threshold, meaning that there is absolutely no point risking getting held by your opponent unless you're baiting holds to get throws.

Using your meter for a Break Blow mid-juggle, as a result of damage scaling, is also a waste of meter since you tend to only get 10+ points of extra damage, which is a negative payoff for using meter in the first place. This means that the dominant strategy is to save meter for a Break Hold or use it raw as a sabaki.

Wall juggles also get a significant damage nerf since characters can't relaunch as high as DOA5, making wall juggles substantially weaker.

The only way, as far as I know of, to get maximum launch height is to use a move that triggers a Fatal Sitdown Stun, but even then, the damage payoff isn't much since it tends to be only 5-10 extra points of damage. It's diminishing returns no matter how you put it.

I understand that DOA6 is meant to be played like a different game, but was nerfing juggles really the solution? Because what the team did was, essentially, nerf all strikers, and as such, give net buff to grapplers, who can easily pull off 30-50% damage throws. Their juggles also hurt more since they have fewer strikes which do more damage per hit. And the cherry on top are OH-centric users, who can easily take off more health with one OH than a striker can do with a stun-launch.
 

KasumiLover

Well-Known Bi Kasumi/Phase Fanboy ⚥
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Georgia
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#2
I think they nerfed it down due to how throw damage for everyone does more damage and the possibility of break blow cancels and how heavy environmental danger zone damage can be. Phase 4 I think also had some of her refloats toned down too and I think in general the nerf makes sense, especially with characters who have alot of options to make holding against them more dangerous in stun, especially with the possibility of a hi counter throw
 
#9
I've never considered the DOA series to emphasize on juggles though. It's always been about the throw/holds.
The way I see it is that there are two types of fighters:
Grapplers (Tina, Bayman etc) - only useful when close / predictable / strength in throws
Evaders (Ayane, Kokoro, Lei etc) - can be used at a distance / easy to trick opponents / strength in holds or evasive moves

But I do agree the throws have been buffed. Tina can be deadly against an incautious opponent.

DOA gets a lot of stigma for being a pick-up-and-go game, but it's really not that simple. Most of the time that luck is just due to people not knowing how to utilize the hold system. But once you've learned everyone's strings and the holds against them, it becomes much more competitive.
 
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Raansu

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Lutz, FL
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Hitomi
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Raansu
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Raansu
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Raansu86
#12
More so they simplified them because of the new bound system and fatal stuns. "Potentially" you can get a lot of guaranteed damage if the opponent has no meter on top of all the guaranteed danger zone launchers. So ya, juggles are super boring now because the most optimal ones are the bound juggles most of the time.
 
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