Did they nerf juggles in DOA6?

Kirito

Member
Was this done to compensate for the stun-launch height being readjusted to DOA3 standards, where the launch height no longer depends on the stun threshold?

In DOA5, IIRC, all strikes to a juggled opponent dealt 40% damage, no matter how long the juggle was. In DOA6, looking at the Move Details, it decreases with each subsequent strike, moreso if you use a Break Hold cancel. Not to mention, with the exception of Phase 4 and Eliot, most characters have received countless nerfs to relauncher heights - Hitomi's 4KK, 7PK (and variants), Kasumi's 66KK, Kokoro's 8PP, Hayate's 663P and 6P+K~4K, etc. I noticed these because I play these characters; I haven't played the rest extensively yet, but Helena is also greatly nerfed with Bokuho 4PK with the little I dabbled in her. Phase-4 and Eliot are relatively untouched, though Phase-4's damage output is significantly worse now due to how damage scaling works.

Strike-heavy characters now feel noticeably weaker as a result, which means that despite the stun-launch change, the net gain is basically zero if damage for juggles in DOA5 and DOA6 are the same, regardless of "launch height" and "juggle length". This also means that the payoff for the stun game is zero (negative if you're unlucky), since launch height does not increase with stun threshold, meaning that there is absolutely no point risking getting held by your opponent unless you're baiting holds to get throws.

Using your meter for a Break Blow mid-juggle, as a result of damage scaling, is also a waste of meter since you tend to only get 10+ points of extra damage, which is a negative payoff for using meter in the first place. This means that the dominant strategy is to save meter for a Break Hold or use it raw as a sabaki.

Wall juggles also get a significant damage nerf since characters can't relaunch as high as DOA5, making wall juggles substantially weaker.

The only way, as far as I know of, to get maximum launch height is to use a move that triggers a Fatal Sitdown Stun, but even then, the damage payoff isn't much since it tends to be only 5-10 extra points of damage. It's diminishing returns no matter how you put it.

I understand that DOA6 is meant to be played like a different game, but was nerfing juggles really the solution? Because what the team did was, essentially, nerf all strikers, and as such, give net buff to grapplers, who can easily pull off 30-50% damage throws. Their juggles also hurt more since they have fewer strikes which do more damage per hit. And the cherry on top are OH-centric users, who can easily take off more health with one OH than a striker can do with a stun-launch.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I think they nerfed it down due to how throw damage for everyone does more damage and the possibility of break blow cancels and how heavy environmental danger zone damage can be. Phase 4 I think also had some of her refloats toned down too and I think in general the nerf makes sense, especially with characters who have alot of options to make holding against them more dangerous in stun, especially with the possibility of a hi counter throw
 

Gultigargar

Well-Known Member
I heard it's like this because they were finding death combos with environmental stuff, but I agree, the scaling does feel kinda severe right now.

If that is the reason why, then I don't know why they didn't lower danger zone damage a bit instead, but what can you do.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
I don't like the juggle system in DOA6.

They encourage a simple combo structure: Stun, launch, bound, close hit ender. Long juggles are toned down with heavy scaling which makes it unrewarding to pull off long combos.

Lame.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
If grapplers are doing more damage, then that's more a problem with them, than with juggles. There's tons of damage to be found in this game if you're willing to learn the system.
 

GarryJaune

Well-Known Member
DOA6's juggle system is trash:)

everyone doing a stupidass easy bounce combo does max damage,what a HARDCORE fighting game
 

GarryJaune

Well-Known Member
:christie:counter hit 33P juggle
33P HKKK ch236p 75
33p 2PP HKKK ch235P 72

team ninja:respect your opponent,don't hit them too much
 

Tina2040_

Well-Known Member
I've never considered the DOA series to emphasize on juggles though. It's always been about the throw/holds.
The way I see it is that there are two types of fighters:
Grapplers (Tina, Bayman etc) - only useful when close / predictable / strength in throws
Evaders (Ayane, Kokoro, Lei etc) - can be used at a distance / easy to trick opponents / strength in holds or evasive moves

But I do agree the throws have been buffed. Tina can be deadly against an incautious opponent.

DOA gets a lot of stigma for being a pick-up-and-go game, but it's really not that simple. Most of the time that luck is just due to people not knowing how to utilize the hold system. But once you've learned everyone's strings and the holds against them, it becomes much more competitive.
 
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d3v

Well-Known Member
Funny that a week ago we had people complaining about the damage some of us were able to pull off in the game.
 

Dr PaC

Well-Known Member
I thought juggles got nerfed for certain characters, not overall? Then again I’m not sure
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
More so they simplified them because of the new bound system and fatal stuns. "Potentially" you can get a lot of guaranteed damage if the opponent has no meter on top of all the guaranteed danger zone launchers. So ya, juggles are super boring now because the most optimal ones are the bound juggles most of the time.
 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
I do think the grapplers are just a tad bit OP in comparison to striking characters that have to rely on juggles. Then again, I might be biased, since I play Leifang, and well, she has to rely a lot on her defensive tools to be truly effective.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
I do think the grapplers are just a tad bit OP in comparison to striking characters that have to rely on juggles. Then again, I might be biased, since I play Leifang, and well, she has to rely a lot on her defensive tools to be truly effective.

Defensive tools that give her practically free everything.
 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
Its still free stuns/launchers. I would kill for that with Hitomi's parry.
Hitomi's parry gives automatic damage, Leifang's do not. In specific cases, the unshu parry can not only leave you at a disadvantage, your attack from it can even be held. It's a trade-off. Hitomi's parry is easy low damage. Leifang's equivalent parry requires more work for higher damage potential.

That higher damage potential is still a far cry from the damage potential of a single grab by grapplers while any of these two are parrying. The reason why I mentioned Leifang is that her best tools are weak against grabs, and thus she is more prone to punishment by grapplers compared to other strikers. Why you turned it into this character war between Hitomi and Leifang is beyond me. This was about strikers vs grapplers, and as of now, the damage vs the effort between grapplers and strikers seems skewed in favor of the grapplers. One grab when you parry or hold, and half your health is gone. Strikers have a hard time doing this amount of damage with one juggle, although it is not impossible.
 
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DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Regarding the grapplers or throws in general, we have to remember that they increased the HiC damage percentage to 160% this time instead of 150%. Throws that generally do like 90+ do 100+ in 6. Sure it may not seem much, but throw damage has been increased if someone held. At first I thought 160% only happens if someone break holds and you throw them for it (which kinda make sense since it's the ultimate hold so they took more damage if you threw them) but it was also added to regular holding as well, not that I mind of course.
 
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DR2K

Well-Known Member
Oh no grapplers are top tier instead of Ninjas. Tina, Lisa, Bayman and Bass are owed top tier status.

Low hold bitch, I dare you.
 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
Tina, Lisa, Bayman and Bass are owed top tier status.
How so? No character is really owed anything. Tier placements generally happen by accident anyway. But still;

Bass was arguably top tier in DOA3.
Tina and Bayman more often than not have been above average on the tier list.
Lisa, well, she's generally considered below average for whatever reason. But I consider her more a hybrid than a grappler.
 
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