do u think its possible for a guy with no frame advantage to beat a frame head?

[Lei]

and it's supposed to. The purpose of punishing is to make opponents play safer, and smarter. But in DOA punishing is shit, and near useless. I hate the concept of punishing with throws, because you get nothing out of it on normal hit. Players can be as unsafe as they want, take little damage, and can still win.

Not necessarily true, From a perspective of christie if you are -13 to 15 that is the point at which you will lose 80-100 damage from an attack punish there is no point in throwing at that point for lets say christie.

That applies to others and doesn't apply to others it's on a per character basis, Punish with jab strings also isn't necessarily bad. The potential damage is higher than a i10-12 throw depending on character. I do agree that punishment should be something higher but punishment is there. You need to explore your options.

 

[TRI Mike]

Stikku gets banned and we get Degalon.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Stikku gets banned and we get Degalon.

HA!

 

[MasterHavik]

This is why DoA will never be at Evo again

The truth has set you free!

 

[Jefffcore]

Is it me, or this guy is trolling us with samarai spirit related threads for the past weeks?

I just don't even.

Yes

 

[MasterHavik]

This is why DoA will never be at Evo again

The truth has set you free!

 

[FakeSypha]

Yes

Oh... I was starting to believe in his samarai spirit. How disappointing.

 

[Jefffcore]

Oh... I was starting to believe in his samarai spirit. How disappointing.

I'm sorry I ruined it for you.

 

[Ghpguy]

I'm no expert but here's the way I see it. Frame advantage is just a way to quantify what we all (should) intrinsically gather from playing the game.

It's obvious that some moves/characters are faster than others, frame advantage just clears up the "how-so" of it all. Even still, the time of execution is still a huge factor, as well as the altitude of the attack, and equally how you choose to respond to it.

In my case, I know of frames. Never looked up any frame data, nor do i care to, but I've been able to do pretty well thus far i think. Despite the science behind it all, at it's root it's still very much a guessing game--hence that rock, paper, scissors ref to the fighting system of strikes, guards and throws.

Watch your opponent closely and trump their offense or defense with the triangle system.
^easier said than done, I know, but doable.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Sounds like scrub talk.

And I'll tell you more: it actually is.
Btw I main Jann Lee, I tend to like Bruce Lee wannabes

 

[shinryu]

Do you not understand the concept that in you DOA "you punish with throws and not attacks?" seriously lol.

So, dumb question: are we talking about online throw punishment (in which case, it's pretty fucked, yeah) or actual offline frame punishment (which can easily net you 60-80 points and/or launches or considerable advantage depending on character)? While you realistically have to get down into the -13 or worse situations before most characters can really do the big damage, that's not universal: Hayate can hit -9 or worse with 236f+p 7k, which is possibly the best punish in the game at 72 damage, Tina has good options to go with +9 backturned advantage (pretty sure that guarantees 6pk) or 62 damage at -9 frames with the 44f+p throw, Bayman's 44f+p ain't bad and he and Mila in particular can use OHs to get around the situation to some extent, and Bass gets 40 odd damage plus advantage off of anything -6 or worse. Mila can get something similar with 6f+p k but that's a -7 punisher. Also, grapplers should have an advantage here, so a weak throw punishment game isn't so much a bug as a feature for most of the non-grappler characters. All in all, I think throw punishment is pretty fairly balanced in theory.

Another wrinkle is that most throws leave you with no chance to really go for force techs, you usually have to choose between damage or advantage. I suppose that argues for your case to some extent, but then the grapplers tend to get some situations where they can get both damage and advantage from a throw, but again arguably that should be the case considering they give up a lot of frame advantage in the striking game. Grapplers need their momentum more.

 

[DR2K]

It helps to know it, but it's not really integral in most fighting games. You'll hear frame data being thrown around in Tekken and VF like it's biblical, and it is. DOA5 is kind of lax in this departnment thanks to the guessing system, delayable strings, easy mode inputs, and just about everything being unsafe on block.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Yes it is possible. I myself do not know much about frame advantage. It does help to know some frame data about your main though, like which attacks have less frames, which is safe on block, etc.

 

[GLoRToR]

The experience you gain by just doing it is faster to acquire by doing the math is all.
It all boils down to how fast you assess your options regardless of frames or matchup data. You go up against a guy whose punch keeps hitting you first no matter what you do, you'll realize to back out and punish with a longer range move for example.
While you can spare yourself the effort by seeing that the move is i6, your fastest is i7, but your i13 has a range that blows him up if you backstep or side step.
My two cents.

 

[Souichiro]

Do you know what a crush is? If you don't then you'll be forever stuff.

Not knowing the terminology on this particularly doesnt mean you dont know what it is. Its easy for people to understand that ("X") attack beats ("Y") attack. It was the same for me too. When i learned that this is called a crush or crushing attack or whatever, the only difference it made, was that a name was added to something i had already taken notice of. Dont get me wrong. I don't want to belittle terminology and generally having the know how on a game, especially when it is played competitively. But surely not knowing the terminology on obvious stuff, people take notice of easily, isnt a serious issue.

 

[MasterHavik]

Not knowing the terminology on this particularly doesnt mean you dont know what it is. Its easy for people to understand that ("X") attack beats ("Y") attack. It was the same for me too. When i learned that this is called a crush or crushing attack or whatever, the only difference it made, was that a name was added to something i had already taken notice of. Dont get me wrong. I don't want to belittle terminology and generally having the know how on a game, especially when it is played competitively. But surely not knowing the terminology on obvious stuff, people take notice of easily, isnt a serious issue.

well a crush is more than jsut x attack beat y attack a crush stuff a certain hit level. There is a high crush, mid crush, and a low crush. It's something you can't weasel your way out of. You should know if who play is easy to crush or not. My main Zack is really easy to crush. I mean HE's really easy.
to crush

 

[HiguraShiki]

well a crush is more than jsut x attack beat y attack a crush stuff a certain hit level. There is a high crush, mid crush, and a low crush. It's something you can't weasel your way out of. You should know if who play is easy to crush or not. My main Zack is really easy to crush. I mean HE's really easy.
to crush

Well, he's easy to crush if people spam demsey roll. If used sparingly, it really depends, since his strings alternate from highs, mids, and lows.

 

[MasterHavik]

Well, he's easy to crush if people spam demsey roll. If used sparingly, it really depends, since his strings alternate from highs, mids, and lows.

not not really..trust me he is easy to crush i main him. He has laways had that problem. He's the easiest character to crush in the game. But...this weakness never gets expose because the lack of knowledge of him is low. It sucks this community won't admit they don't know. Well a few people do, but I'm talking about the majority.

 

[xXLlokkiXx]

go for it webbie you better look up those frames though first

 

[CyberEvil]

This thread has run its course. Nothing brought up in this thread justifies its existence at this point.