DOA Tournament Tier List

[T..J. Bernard]

Here is my Tier List for now. I feel that as I learn more with the game and explore more in regards to tournament scenario, this will be adjusted accordingly. Originally I wouldn't have put an SS tier cause I feel the system in place prevents an SS from happening, however I feel there's no D tier, I would crowd A and C tier a whole lot, and I used MMcafe for Tekken which they have SS so I figured why not for DOA as well. After this and my Tekken tier list, I will be busy with evangelism for my Church, so I would only be able to watch DOA instead of play it. However, once I return, I'll be back on track as we prep for Summer Jam & TFC. Also, I felt it would be better to have this on a thread instead of my posts so that I wouldn't be bombarding everyone with long comments. Also I think this would lead to better dialogue as I continue to explore this tier list. With that in mind, here is Conditioner's Tournament tier... for now.

P.S. Here is my Tekken Tier list. Same description applies. I would say Tekken's SS have more so extremely effective tools to force a certain style which separates them from S tier. Also, the description of B & C differs. B's to me in Tekken have the mix of B & C tier qualities in DOA. Usually in the too complex side (Lee/Yoshi). Others are manageable one you understand their style. C's are in a sense below average. They pass enough to say they aren't garbage and they have decent tools. But it's a struggle to utilize them in a really good way. Also, players can always pick someone else who can do what they do but better (Similar to DOA's C's. Hitomi > Ein, Almost everyone Honoka & Raidou copies > Homoka & Raidou for example).

 

[YEH]

The list in itself isn't bad but I really don't think DOA has a "Tier list" XCaliburBladeZ is one proof, he made his Alpha top, Eliot top, Helena top, Zack top, and Sonic Fox made his whatever he plays top especially Marie Rose and Rachel.

Just find a character you really like the play style of, and climb your way to the top, it's about playing good, there are no shortcuts here.

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

Your Tekken tier list is alright, but there are a few things I want to correct.

I think Leo should be on SS tier. Tekken 7 Leo is the strongest Leo. He has one of the best 11 frame while standing punisher when it was only below average back in Tekken 6 and Tekken Tag 2.

Nina would fit more on the B tier. Tekken 7 Nina is the weakest Nina. They made her more reliant on counter hits because her normal hit properties and whiff punishment got nerfed drastically compared to her Tekken 6 and Tekken Tag 2 incarnate.

Lee would fit more on the C tier. As someone who used Lee as one of my main characters back in the previous games, he got nerfed really bad in Tekken 7. He's on the same boat with Nina. Lee is already hard to play and they made him even weaker in Tekken 7. And also because Lee's okizeme is his strongest point, knowing okizeme has been dumbed down in Tekken 7, that makes him even less rewarding to play as.

Eddy would fit more on B tier because...reasons........... OK, I'll mention a few things:
b+1,4.................. It used to be a counter hit launcher back in Tekken Tag 2, but it's now just a poking move with barely any benefit.
Eddy has the best backdash in the previous games, and because Tekken 7's universal backdash is weaker compared to Tekken 5, 6, and Tag 2, it affected his spacing game. He has the worst sidestep in the game, but his mid-crushing properties made up for that.

I can't comment about the DOA tier list because I only played half of the roster, but it looks well thought out.

 

[T..J. Bernard]

The list in itself isn't bad but I really don't think DOA has a "Tier list" XCaliburBladeZ is one proof, he made his Alpha top, Eliot top, Helena top, Zack top, and Sonic Fox made his whatever he plays top especially Marie Rose and Rachel.

Just find a character you really like the play style of, and climb your way to the top, it's about playing good, there are no shortcuts here.

All it comes down to is preference. But I think there is a tier. It’s not like Tekken but there is a tier. Otherwise I’d see Raidou vs Ein in grand finals by now. The characters you mentioned with XCal, Alpha wasn’t bad. She has possibly the best offense. However her defense reeks. Notice how Alpha isn’t used much in a tournament scenario. Eliot was always good. He was just underrated and some strings can be predicted. I won’t speak much on Helena but I’ll just say she was always really good. I never seen XCal with Zack, but I know people who do and Zack’s another really good underrated character. Sonic Fox with Marie Rose, another not bad character, but I always see Sonic in the big moments using either Christie or Rachel which I see to be way more efficient in a tournament scenario. And also, it depends on player experience and knowledge as well to perform in a tournament scenario. Lastly, to say there’s no tier is to say every character is balanced and everyone fights the same almost. That doesn’t occur in the modern day competitive fighters I know of. In regards to DOA, sure there is fun factor to consider and there are ways for even the worst of characters to at least make top 8. However, I can definitely see for a fact that some characters have it easier than others. That’s where a tier list comes in. Who has the better tools and resources to get you to go the distance the easiest way possible.

 

[T..J. Bernard]

Your Tekken tier list is alright, but there are a few things I want to correct.

I think Leo should be on SS tier. Tekken 7 Leo is the strongest Leo. He has one of the best 11 frame while standing punisher when it was only below average back in Tekken 6 and Tekken Tag 2.

Nina would fit more on the B tier. Tekken 7 Nina is the weakest Nina. They made her more reliant on counter hits because her normal hit properties and whiff punishment got nerfed drastically compared to her Tekken 6 and Tekken Tag 2 incarnate.

Lee would fit more on the C tier. As someone who used Lee as one of my main characters back in the previous games, he got nerfed really bad in Tekken 7. He's on the same boat with Nina. Lee is already hard to play and they made him even weaker in Tekken 7. And also because Lee's okizeme is his strongest point, knowing okizeme has been dumbed down in Tekken 7, that makes him even less rewarding to play as.

Eddy would fit more on B tier because...reasons........... OK, I'll mention a few things:
b+1,4.................. It used to be a counter hit launcher back in Tekken Tag 2, but it's now just a poking move with barely any benefit.
Eddy has the best backdash in the previous games, and because Tekken 7's universal backdash is weaker compared to Tekken 5, 6, and Tag 2, it affected his spacing game. He has the worst sidestep in the game, but his mid-crushing properties made up for that.

I can't comment about the DOA tier list because I only played half of the roster, but it looks well thought out.

Valid arguments on Tekken. Let me see if I can explain my reasoning to my selections:

1) I put Leo on S tier cause even though Leo has the tools to definitely be SS, I feel there’s a little bit of execution for stuff that’s not as rewarding as the SS’s. Like given, DJ’s hard to use, but he’s so rewarding that it warrents his position. Plus I feel Leo doesn’t have anything that truly sticks out. Given Jack can possibly have that argument as well but Jack’s so simple and effective and efficient in tournament scenario that he deserves SS at this point. Leo’s extreme fundamentals that can hurt her rather than help him.

2) Nina I put in S cause of her good pressure. Given, she does need the counter hits, but if a player can set Nina up well to get those, it’s a wrap. Her pressure games possibly the best to me, you can debate Hwoarang as well, and that definitely helps in a tournament scenario if the player doesn’t have knowledge on the Nina MU. It’s easier to put pressure on an opponent rather than play defensive and try to point out a move to punish, especially if you have to do it in 2-5 games.

3) I feel Lee is at B for now because Lee to me has decent tools to help him. He has slide which is pretty decent. His stance can sometimes evade moves which can actually whiff punish opponents. His wall carry’s really good which can help with the wall damage. And he’s one character where although he isn’t on the A tier in regards of difficulty to beat, you should look into him. I found that his flipkick is actually safe compared to Law. His execution is definitely an issue and I feel he struggles against some of the higher tiers. And there are characters that do what he do but better. But I don’t think those reasons warrent him for C tier.

4) I put Eddy in A cause of the backdash and the evasion that he does have. Given, his SS is trash, but if Eddy can get enough space to work, he really works. Plus, Idk if it’s me, but I feel Eddy’s one of the harder characters to punish, not cause of the actual punishing, but because of the low rewards I see from punishing which fall short compared to what he can do. Lastly, I feel it’s easier to fight with Eddy rather than against, especially with pressure and all that to configure in 2-5 games.

I’ll definitely look through some of the stuff. And your arguments were valid. I hope I shed some light with the placements of those characters.

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

Valid arguments on Tekken. Let me see if I can explain my reasoning to my selections:

1) I put Leo on S tier cause even though Leo has the tools to definitely be SS, I feel there’s a little bit of execution for stuff that’s not as rewarding as the SS’s. Like given, DJ’s hard to use, but he’s so rewarding that it warrents his position. Plus I feel Leo doesn’t have anything that truly sticks out. Given Jack can possibly have that argument as well but Jack’s so simple and effective and efficient in tournament scenario that he deserves SS at this point. Leo’s extreme fundamentals that can hurt her rather than help him.

Interesting. You used comfortability/accessibility for the player instead of the tools despite the execution required. Kazuya was once debated to be the best Mishima because his EWGF is 13 frames while the others are 14 frames, but it takes a lot of practice to get that EWGF to 13 frames. However his terrible poking puts him on the lower place, which also explains why he's a defensive character.
But yeah, I could go along with that.

2) Nina I put in S cause of her good pressure. Given, she does need the counter hits, but if a player can set Nina up well to get those, it’s a wrap. Her pressure games possibly the best to me, you can debate Hwoarang as well

I find Hwoarang's pressure game to be superior than Nina because he has a lot of pressure tools that are frame traps (plus on block) while Nina's moves that are good for pressure are negatives. What it takes to succeed at pressuring the opponent and bait for a counter hit is good deception as well as timing because not everyone usually interrupts Nina's pressuring because a lot of them don't know they're negative on block or they just use the wrong move to interrupt.

3) I feel Lee is at B for now because Lee to me has decent tools to help him. He has slide which is pretty decent. His stance can sometimes evade moves which can actually whiff punish opponents. His wall carry’s really good which can help with the wall damage. And he’s one character where although he isn’t on the A tier in regards of difficulty to beat, you should look into him. I found that his flipkick is actually safe compared to Law. His execution is definitely an issue and I feel he struggles against some of the higher tiers. And there are characters that do what he do but better. But I don’t think those reasons warrent him for C tier.

If you meant his flip kick from his 4,3,4 and 4,u+3, yeah that's safe on block. Law's flip kick from his 4,u+3 is neutral on block though. But if you meant his flip kick that comes after a crouch, that's launch punishable just like Law's.

I think a point for Lee he has in Tekken 7 is that his 10 frame punisher is better now because he has 13:3 which came from Violet in Tekken Tag 2. I guess that's it...because majority of his changes kinda made him less player-friendly. One would have to through higher levels of stress just to get to the same level of reward as the A tier characters.

4) I put Eddy in A cause of the backdash and the evasion that he does have. Given, his SS is trash, but if Eddy can get enough space to work, he really works. Plus, Idk if it’s me, but I feel Eddy’s one of the harder characters to punish, not cause of the actual punishing, but because of the low rewards I see from punishing which fall short compared to what he can do. Lastly, I feel it’s easier to fight with Eddy rather than against, especially with pressure and all that to configure in 2-5 games.

The way how Eddy is played is really different compared to other characters, which is why many people don't understand Eddy players.
Eddy is pretty much the best when it comes to gimmicks because his Negativa stance (aka Relax stance) crushes 80% of the existing mids in the game, and his mixup game is also pretty good. His movement is just terrible as well as his standing punishers. His only good punisher is his ws+1,3 which surpasses most of the cast.

 

[T..J. Bernard]

Interesting. You used comfortability/accessibility for the player instead of the tools despite the execution required. Kazuya was once debated to be the best Mishima because his EWGF is 13 frames while the others are 14 frames, but it takes a lot of practice to get that EWGF to 13 frames. However his terrible poking puts him on the lower place, which also explains why he's a defensive character.
But yeah, I could go along with that.


I find Hwoarang's pressure game to be superior than Nina because he has a lot of pressure tools that are frame traps (plus on block) while Nina's moves that are good for pressure are negatives. What it takes to succeed at pressuring the opponent and bait for a counter hit is good deception as well as timing because not everyone usually interrupts Nina's pressuring because a lot of them don't know they're negative on block or they just use the wrong move to interrupt.


If you meant his flip kick from his 4,3,4 and 4,u+3, yeah that's safe on block. Law's flip kick from his 4,u+3 is neutral on block though. But if you meant his flip kick that comes after a crouch, that's launch punishable just like Law's.

I think a point for Lee he has in Tekken 7 is that his 10 frame punisher is better now because he has 13:3 which came from Violet in Tekken Tag 2. I guess that's it...because majority of his changes kinda made him less player-friendly. One would have to through higher levels of stress just to get to the same level of reward as the A tier characters.


The way how Eddy is played is really different compared to other characters, which is why many people don't understand Eddy players.
Eddy is pretty much the best when it comes to gimmicks because his Negativa stance (aka Relax stance) crushes 80% of the existing mids in the game, and his mixup game is also pretty good. His movement is just terrible as well as his standing punishers. His only good punisher is his ws+1,3 which surpasses most of the cast.

I think comfortability/accessibility is important. The biggest thing to me that separates the SS from S was the effectiveness of their bread & butter. Where I see my SS's in Tekken, I feel that those 6 dictate the flow of the game regardless of who they're playing. And their bread & butter is so effective, it's hard to counter-act them. Hence Devil Jin (Electric & Hellsweep), Kazumi (Running 2, df 1, & wall throw), Dragunov (Running two, b1+2 I think), Paul (Deathfist, Demo-Man, etc), & Ling (Cali-roll, orbital, etc). Where Jack fits in is even though his bread & butter isn't like those characters to the max (I think Jack-hammer isn't bad though, and that deceptive low as well), his tools dictate the flow of the game really well where he can win tournaments based off that. With the S's they have great tools but nothing that truly stands out. Leo has possibly the best fundamentals but there's no move of Leo's that strikes so much fear to me. And I think that's where Leo falls short of SS.

Hwoarang's is debatable. However the reason why I say Nina's is better is because Hwoarang has to be in flamingo to really work. Nina doesn't have to worry about any stances that she has to be in. Although Hwoarang's is the safer of the pressure, it's also the more risky. Given there can be a case where Hwo pressures and someone RA's and there's little he can do to evade that. Or Hwo does a high and someone does a high crush and he's on the defensive end. Nina to me doesn't really have to worry about that too much, at least based off what I played & watched, which allows me to put her one step ahead of Hwo. I feel it's easier for her to pressure an opponent than Hwo. Maybe cause there are n't many Nina's to study.

I agree that Lee has to undergo more stress to really be effective in comparison to others whom do better. However, one plus also and that's not from him as a character, it's more from a game perspective is there isn't any holds and such (Certain characters have parries but thats the most they have). Because of that, it's easier for a character like Lee, to at least open someone up, where in DOA you can get bailed out of pressure by making the right hold or throw punishing what is known to be negative. I think because of that, Lee at least bumps up one tier for that reason.

I think the points you made about his relax stance and all of that is why I put him at A tier. Tools like that are really effective for a tournament scenario. Especially when your opponent doesn't know the MU well at all. It takes more studying to beat Eddy rather than win with Eddy which helps a ton when it comes to tournament scenarios.

 

[KasumiLover]

This is my personal DOA Tier List, S is best, A is great, B is average, is below average and D is worst.

S:

A:

B:

C:

D:

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

I think comfortability/accessibility is important. The biggest thing to me that separates the SS from S was the effectiveness of their bread & butter. Where I see my SS's in Tekken, I feel that those 6 dictate the flow of the game regardless of who they're playing. And their bread & butter is so effective, it's hard to counter-act them. Hence Devil Jin (Electric & Hellsweep), Kazumi (Running 2, df 1, & wall throw), Dragunov (Running two, b1+2 I think), Paul (Deathfist, Demo-Man, etc), & Ling (Cali-roll, orbital, etc). Leo has possibly the best fundamentals but there's no move of Leo's that strikes so much fear to me. And I think that's where Leo falls short of SS.

When I had to make a tier list, I usually base it on the availability of the character's arsenal despite its difficulty/execution requirement and how much it overwhelms the others on the same department and the character's entire move set. Such as <character> has the best 10 frame punisher in the game because it does 34 damage and KND and <character> has the best launcher in the game because it's 12 frames and +6 on block while the rest is only 15 frames and -9 on block etc. It still stand superior even if it's a just frame move or something that makes a move difficult.

I've always thought of putting Akuma on SS tier because he has 10-12 frame launchers which the rest of the 3D fighter Tekken cast doesn't have and he also has that invincible uppercut, and he can turn moves that are negative on block into plus on block, but I had to keep in mind that it requires meter, so it's not available at all times.

You can add Dragunov's d/b+3 to be a part of his BnB as well. It now does a full combo when it only does a mini combo back in the previous games.

Hwoarang's is debatable. However the reason why I say Nina's is better is because Hwoarang has to be in flamingo to really work. Nina doesn't have to worry about any stances that she has to be in. Although Hwoarang's is the safer of the pressure, it's also the more risky. Given there can be a case where Hwo pressures and someone RA's and there's little he can do to evade that. Or Hwo does a high and someone does a high crush and he's on the defensive end. Nina to me doesn't really have to worry about that too much, at least based off what I played & watched, which allows me to put her one step ahead of Hwo. I feel it's easier for her to pressure an opponent than Hwo. Maybe cause there are n't many Nina's to study.

Nina's string sidestep cancels as well as her SS+1 cancels can play a part to her pressure game. It's also pretty hard to do well with her SS+1 cancels because it takes a lot of practice.

I agree that Lee has to undergo more stress to really be effective in comparison to others whom do better. However, one plus also and that's not from him as a character, it's more from a game perspective is there isn't any holds and such (Certain characters have parries but thats the most they have). Because of that, it's easier for a character like Lee, to at least open someone up, where in DOA you can get bailed out of pressure by making the right hold or throw punishing what is known to be negative. I think because of that, Lee at least bumps up one tier for that reason.

Well, if you say so... Because I can't play Lee anymore in Tekken 7, haha... The nerf hammer hit him in a lot of places. His negative frame moves are now more...negative...except for his running 3,4 which is now plus on block, but it no longer juggles like it did in Tekken Tag 2. His crouch mixup is now a lot weaker too because his mid option no longer juggles.

 

[d3v]

How would you tie this in the the match-up chart that people have compiled over the years?

 

[Radiance]

This is my personal DOA Tier List, S is best, A is great, B is average, is below average and D is worst.

S:

A:

B:

C:

D:

ehm why do you think Eliot is the worst again? You're going to have to convince me that my main who has 50/50's, parries, i9 CH deep stun, some of the best damage, and one of the best oki's belongs there.

 

[KasumiLover]

ehm why do you think Eliot is the worst again? You're going to have to convince me that my main belongs there.

He's not THE worst but I listed him as potentially the best out of the worst character for a few reasons:
-Linear but has a defensive holds to help escape pressure and his 7P makes him a psudeo/virtual 9i framer.
-Great combo damage albeit somewhat situational
-his 214P parries attacks which i feel is good
-Can do well against characters like leifang since he has tools to halt defensive characters

He's definitely not the best but I feel he is the best out of the worst characters since he has good tools to go with his spear type style. Naotora would be better than him imo if she had defensive holds and maybe a couple other moves tho. I deem alpha the worst since she has no WU kicks besides her secret punishable one and she's doomed near a wall. She has three CBs and that ridiculous BURST throw shit but she would be useless without it.

 

[Lulu]

ehm why do you think Eliot is the worst again? You're going to have to convince me that my main who has 50/50's, parries, i9 CH deep stun, some of the best damage, and one of the best oki's belongs there.

Its probably because he's Mids are slower than average and his ability to cash out damage on super heavy weights is significantly worse than everybody else ability to do the same... also none of the Guaranteed Follow Ups from his Parry is particularly threatning....

That being said... I definitely wouldn't put him at the Bottom... I mean come on... lets give the boy some credit.

 

[Radiance]

He's not THE worst but I listed him as potentially the best out of the worst character for a few reasons:
-Linear but has a defensive holds to help escape pressure and his 7P makes him a psudeo/virtual 9i framer.
-Great combo damage albeit somewhat situational
-his 214P parries attacks which i feel is good
-Can do well against characters like leifang since he has tools to halt defensive characters
.

okay so you've listed reasons as to why he's a good character so why is he in your bottom tier list?

 

[KasumiLover]

okay so you've listed reasons as to why he's a good character so why is he in your bottom tier list?

His linearity and lack of speed is a hindrance, a major hindrance that dulls his positives XD if he were faster and not nearly as predictable or linear with his mid punches I would place him higher, especially with his power in his combos. All the other characters in the D tier also have something that hinders them and drags them down from even being below average but I would say Alpha is the worst hands down, only her burst throw and her three CBs save her from being totally useless.

 

[Radiance]

His linearity and lack of speed is a hindrance.

What lack of speed are you referencing? His movement is good, and his attack speed is great. i9 stun, i10 jab, i13 mid, and i13 that's -1 which is fine because his 7p will stuff out jab attempts since it does more damage.

As far as his linear attacks, that's the whole point of his long strings that feels like they never seem to end.. You're supposed to delay his string to catch people sidestepping or attempting to interrupt..

The only complaint I have as an Eliot player is that his fastest mid is i13 but then I realized how dumb and OP it would be to not only have an i11/i12 mid but a i9 high that deepstuns on CH and beats every other i9 high.

Any character who has a vortex will never be low tier. But you're complaining about his speed and yet have Raidou and useless Brad Wong a tier higher than him. I'm curious about that to.

 

[Bacaww]

This is my personal DOA Tier List, S is best, A is great, B is average, is below average and D is worst.

S:

A:

B:

C:

D:

Why is Phase in the C tier exactly?

 

[YEH]

This is my personal DOA Tier List, S is best, A is great, B is average, is below average and D is worst.

S:

A:

B:

C:

D:

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

Poor Zack. He feels ignored.

 

[KasumiLover]

Why is Phase in the C tier exactly?

Because she's fast and has good damage output but her slow neutral, limitations, unsafety, and lack of tools drag her down to being below average

@Radiance I'm just going by what me and other players seen from him XD he's ok but mot the best, same with Naotora, I like her and I feel she's strong but realistically she isn't and I would looka bit foolish placing her any higher than what she truly is