DOA5U: Reintroducing just frames.. what if?

[Awesmic]

I don't have a clue what Sector is saying about this Just Frame stuff. But if he brought it up, it has to be a good idea. So I'll support it, whatever it is.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

If someone is struggling with an input in combo training, then they shouldn't be playing that character in the first place.

There's enough variety in the game for them to choose another character with easier inputs. If they can't perform the slightly trickier motions and inputs (like most people attempting a TFBB on youtube), then they should opt for something easier, which exists in this game. If you don't make it obvious that there is a good reason why certain inputs are difficult because, like frame advantage or priority, then people would just take that as a sort of artificial difficulty rather than an in-game tool.

Sure, DOA doesn't need JFs, but arguing that JFs would deter people from playing a game sounds silly to me, because people are already playing Tekken and SC and they still have fun with the game, despite the many difficult inputs that some characters require.

inspiring words Kitchener, cant get a move down right away? well you obviously you suck too much so dont bother learning the character you actually like and settle for someone else.im sorry im not naturally talented at fighters and actually have to work to be decent

 

[UncleKitchener]

inspiring words Kitchener, cant get a move down right away? well you obviously you suck too much so dont bother learning the character you actually like and settle for someone else.im sorry im not naturally talented at fighters and actually have to work to be decent

I didn't say any of that to sound like a prick, but it's a fact. I've been playing Mishimas since last year and I can still mess up from time to time. It took me years to adapt and naturally get into any game and pick my character. If someone just bought a copy of a fighting game thinking it's a walk in the park and give up because they can't do links and combos and they don't bother looking online for help for example, then why not just sell their copy or something?

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

you're the one telling them to give up

 

[Brute]

If someone is struggling with an input in combo training, then they shouldn't be playing that character in the first place.

Not necessarily true. For example, if someone can't reliably execute the Raijin, they can still be a perfectly fine Hayate player.

inspiring words Kitchener, cant get a move down right away? well you obviously you suck too much so dont bother learning the character you actually like and settle for someone else.

it's a fact.

ROFL no

When I first decided to main Ryu, I couldn't do Izuna Drops or a semi-circle aerial throw. Did I go "ah, fuck it, better use Jan Lee or Gen Fu?" No. I stuck with it, practicing Ryu's harder moves and tactics relentlessly, both in battles and in the practice mode. The result? I can do Ryu's junk that I once considered "hard," and main the character. In fact, as a result, most other characters' "hard" inputs have become considerably easier now as well. I still struggle with some, like Akira, but that's why I'm trying to learn how to use him, so that I can get better myself as a player and have all the fun I see others having who can do all the cool stuff.

Giving up and settling for some braindead character with less pizzaz and flare than the one you want to be is the only bad decision you can make when choosing which character(s) you play.

 

[UncleKitchener]

you're the one telling them to give up

What's the point if they don't want to practice and learn. If I see someone in a house party shoving his face onto the controller, I won't bother. People want magic pills, not willing to put the time in and learn two simple combos.

 

[Brute]

What's the point if they don't want to practice and learn.

Not being able to do a combo =/= not wanting to practice and learn

 

[DR2K]

Let me sum up DR2K's positions in two sentences:
"Competition online is at an all time low guys!"
"I don't want to have to actually compete with other people."

At least mine is consistant.

Online competition is pretty low overall, players in general need to up their game. Adding in just frames would not be beneficial to learning an already complicated game and addng in more for the sake of it would be counter productive. Adding in moves and motions to be more complicated for better moves is fine, but a move that needs to be done in 1/60th of a frame? What justification is there for this strict timing?

Saying that stick players are more advantaged is a rather ignorant statement because both pad and stick players practice the same combos, but they just follow different methods of input. Two sides of the same coin.

It's a fact that (good) sticks allow for easier persicion inputs. No one is carrying a big ugly overpriced object because it's just a control preference.

The only reason the VF characters are so awkwardly designed in DOA is to match the game they come from.

 

[David Gregg]

I don't understand the argument that if more just frames were introduced that you would need to use them in order to win? In general they're just moves that, if executed, put you in a more favorable position like an advanced hold does. The opponent could still block/counter.

 

[DR2K]

I don't understand the argument that if more just frames were introduced that you would need to use them in order to win? In general they're just moves that, if executed, put you in a more favorable position like an advanced hold does. The opponent could still block/counter.

Being able to defend a move or it having a counter doesn't mean it can't be better. By your logic every match up is the exact same.

Logically the execution would require them to be amazing moves you need to use, like Akira's knee or guaranteed combo throws. Advanced holds just require a better guess for more damage, hardly comparable to JF.

 

[David Gregg]

Being able to defend a move or it having a counter doesn't mean it can't be better. By your logic every match up is the exact same.

Logically the execution would require them to be amazing moves you need to use, like Akira's knee or guaranteed combo throws. .

It would be better that's the point. And you're right, the match up would be different but it doesn't mean that you have to use it in order to win nor does it guarantee that you will win if you use it. If this were the case then people utilizing Akira's knee and Hayabusa's Izuna drop would always win (and since the latter may actually be true then JF's would be leveling out the playing field anyway).

 

[DR2K]

It would be better that's the point. And you're right, the match up would be different but it doesn't mean that you have to use it in order to win nor does it guarantee that you will win if you use it. If this were the case then people utilizing Akira's knee and Hayabusa's Izuna drop would always win (and since the latter may actually be true then JF's would be leveling out the playing field anyway).

If you're fighing someone good you're going to need all your tools available to you.

They're not just going to add just frames to characters as they are, they're going to design characters around just frame moves.

 

[Argentus]

Not necessarily true. For example, if someone can't reliably execute the Raijin, they can still be a perfectly fine Hayate player.


ROFL no

When I first decided to main Ryu, I couldn't do Izuna Drops or a semi-circle aerial throw. Did I go "ah, fuck it, better use Jan Lee or Gen Fu?" No. I stuck with it, practicing Ryu's harder moves and tactics relentlessly, both in battles and in the practice mode. The result? I can do Ryu's junk that I once considered "hard," and main the character. In fact, as a result, most other characters' "hard" inputs have become considerably easier now as well. I still struggle with some, like Akira, but that's why I'm trying to learn how to use him, so that I can get better myself as a player and have all the fun I see others having who can do all the cool stuff.

Giving up and settling for some braindead character with less pizzaz and flare than the one you want to be is the only bad decision you can make when choosing which character(s) you play.

This exactly. If you can't do one thing with a character, you just focus on everything else you CAN do with them for now. I still have issue doing 360 moves in fighters, but I still do grapplers most of the time. And still do well enough with them. I cannot for the LIFE of me get Guile's Ultras to reliably come out, but I still do fine with him in SF4. I just focus on what else I CAN do.