DOA5U: Reintroducing just frames.. what if?

Codemaster92163

Well-Known Member
-The problem with you not wanting just frames to dramatically increase your chances of winning is already built in the game. For example, if a player is capable of just framing their combo throws, that is a 100+ points of guaranteed damage that a lesser skilled player will never get. The combos/juggles from danger zone rebounds require strict(moreso than regular combos/juggles) timing, and depending on the character being used, you can get up to 40+ damage. Those 40+ points can either make or break a match.


The difference in that is that none of those are just-frames. They're only improved if you do manage to perfectly time everything. You don't need to be perfect on combo throws to perform the entire thing - it just helps to ensure the opponent won't break your throw. I'd consider that just competing with the opponents' timing, not necessarily forcing you to be frame perfect as JFs often do. As for wall combos...I never really have difficulty doing any of them, so I don't see that being a proper example either. A few characters require stricter timing than others, yes, but that's in no way/shape/form a JF in the true sense of the word.

I think we just view this differently - we're not necessarily arguing over the merits of the topic, really, but now just kind of disagree as to what falls into what category. In any case, I see your point, but I don't see it translating over to what I'm getting at. Whether it's a failure of communication or otherwise, I feel we're just looking at it from different perspectives =) if we're not, then well what does it matter considering it's just my opinion.
 

David Gregg

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I'm understanding the argument against JF's? Including them still makes the game accessible as anyone can see that move on the list and anyone can practice it in order to improve their execution. I can't tell you how long it took for me to perform both Gen Fu and Eliot's :3_::P:(x 5) combo in combo challenge: that was a bitch but eventually I got it. You should be rewarded for putting effort into the game and practicing moves that are harder to execute. If anything it will encourage people playing at a lower level to spend more time invested in the game.
 

UncleKitchener

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Standard Donor
The difference in that is that none of those are just-frames. They're only improved if you do manage to perfectly time everything. You don't need to be perfect on combo throws to perform the entire thing - it just helps to ensure the opponent won't break your throw. I'd consider that just competing with the opponents' timing, not necessarily forcing you to be frame perfect as JFs often do. As for wall combos...I never really have difficulty doing any of them, so I don't see that being a proper example either. A few characters require stricter timing than others, yes, but that's in no way/shape/form a JF in the true sense of th-

The fact that the can be JFs still makes them JFs.

Why are you arguing against JFs again?
 

Russian-chiropractic19

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
i think people are just worried about something like Akira's knee happening.the thought of your character getting a move you cant use is pretty worrying and embarrassing if you cant bring out their full potential
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
i think people are just worried about something like Akira's knee happening.the thought of your character getting a move you cant use is pretty worrying and embarrassing if you cant bring out their full potential
If not being able to perform a move in the character's movelist stopped people from using the character there would be way less noobie-busa players than there are.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
I don't see whats stupid about them? Maybe your inability do them?



Which is what I'm stating, if players can pull them off they should be greatly rewarded

Because it's nearly impossible to consistntly do on a game pad and gives stick players a huge advantage. Then tack on a sub standard netcode and it adds a whole mess of issues.

Of course DOA in general steers away from heavy inputs and execution requirements as a whole.
 

UncleKitchener

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Standard Donor
Because it's nearly impossible to consistntly do on a game pad and gives stick players a huge advantage. Then tack on a sub standard netcode and it adds a whole mess of issues.

Of course DOA in general steers away from heavy inputs and execution requirements as a whole.

That is bullshit and you know it.

There are loads of VF pad players who play Akira and Goh. The only conclusion I'm reaching here is that you need to step yo game up and maybe get a psOne pad.

I've played against two mishima pad players myself.

sticks are expensive

Yes and so is life itself.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Meh. I don't want to learn to use some giant, expensive hunk of junk just to play one game.

Besides, they're not even comfortable. Too big and I have nowhere to put one. I like the comfort, compactness and universality of standard controllers.
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
Because it's nearly impossible to consistntly do on a game pad and gives stick players a huge advantage. Then tack on a sub standard netcode and it adds a whole mess of issues.


I don't believe that. I play Alpha Patroklos in SC:V on arcade stick and pad. Impossible isn't even in my diction. If someone can be a pro with C.Viper in SF4's strict combo system on pad, then I don't think just frames would be a problem in DOA's buffer system. But I do understand where you're coming from in terms of online/lag/crappy netcode. But still even with DOA5's current netcode, I've never had any problems with Sarah's, Akira's or Lisa's 3P+G:p+G throw jf throw on pad. The only jf I've had a problem with on pad is Akira's knee, but Jf's where you have to release a input on a certain frame are rare, possibly the only one.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
That is bullshit and you know it.

There are loads of VF pad players who play Akira and Goh. The only conclusion I'm reaching here is that you need to step yo game up and maybe get a psOne pad.

I've played against two mishima pad players myself.



Yes and so is life itself.

No it's not, just because a minute number of players can do magic on a pad it doesn't exclude the fact that stick players are heavily advantaged in terms of tighter inputs.

DOA is a very pad friendly fighter and I'd love for it to stay in this direction. If you'd rather spend your time in training mode learning unfriendly inputs instead of more integral match ups, strings, level design, etc. . . then there's plenty of fighters to fill that niche.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
You should join the stick club. You know you want to!!! ;-)
 

Codemaster92163

Well-Known Member
The fact that the can be JFs still makes them JFs.

Why are you arguing against JFs again?


I'm not arguing against them. I'm arguing against really potent JFs. There's a difference. I personally really enjoy them, but wouldn't necessarily care for them to force players (some of whom have never touched another fighter) to have to learn them in order to win. Powerful JFs cause that; a few of my friends aren't that great at complicated, precise inputs, and I'd hate to see the addition cause them to quit the game when it furthers the gap between them and other players.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues performing JFs, either - I mained Yoshi and began using Setsuka before I stopped playing SCIV. It's just a preference thing on my part.
 

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
People still don't know this game.
"I don't like Just Frames. don't put em in :C "
"TOO LATE, you had them for years."
OMG u guyz r just trying to turn DOA into Tekenn.

No it's not, just because a minute number of players can do magic on a pad it doesn't exclude the fact that stick players are heavily advantaged in terms of tighter inputs.
Let me sum up DR2K's positions in two sentences:
"Competition online is at an all time low guys!"
"I don't want to have to actually compete with other people."

sticks are expensive
SCV stick: $70
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
No it's not, just because a minute number of players can do magic on a pad it doesn't exclude the fact that stick players are heavily advantaged in terms of tighter inputs.

DOA is a very pad friendly fighter and I'd love for it to stay in this direction. If you'd rather spend your time in training mode learning unfriendly inputs instead of more integral match ups, strings, level design, etc. . . then there's plenty of fighters to fill that niche.

Do you think people who play characters with difficult inputs really intimidate and wave their dicks around freely? Hell no, they're playing characters that need way more effort and the other player who's probably playing something with mix-ups or short links or cancels is having an easier time putting the other guy under pressure.

I'd love to bring you down to my arcade in London and introduce you to a guy called wolflink. This guy is an inspiration to all pad players and he's a great guy to boot. Saying that stick players are more advantaged is a rather ignorant statement because both pad and stick players practice the same combos, but they just follow different methods of input. Two sides of the same coin.

Also, in response to that last sentence, please refer to either an Akira or a Sarah video.

I'm not arguing against them. I'm arguing against really potent JFs. There's a difference. I personally really enjoy them, but wouldn't necessarily care for them to force players (some of whom have never touched another fighter) to have to learn them in order to win. Powerful JFs cause that; a few of my friends aren't that great at complicated, precise inputs, and I'd hate to see the addition cause them to quit the game when it furthers the gap between them and other players.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues performing JFs, either - I mained Yoshi and began using Setsuka before I stopped playing SCIV. It's just a preference thing on my part.

If someone is struggling with an input in combo training, then they shouldn't be playing that character in the first place.

There's enough variety in the game for them to choose another character with easier inputs. If they can't perform the slightly trickier motions and inputs (like most people attempting a TFBB on youtube), then they should opt for something easier, which exists in this game. If you don't make it obvious that there is a good reason why certain inputs are difficult because, like frame advantage or priority, then people would just take that as a sort of artificial difficulty rather than an in-game tool.

Sure, DOA doesn't need JFs, but arguing that JFs would deter people from playing a game sounds silly to me, because people are already playing Tekken and SC and they still have fun with the game, despite the many difficult inputs that some characters require.
 
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