DoA6 impressions: first week

[Raansu]

If only that “random” thing could be baited and punished hard, and the reward for landing the “random” thing was so minimal that it doesn’t matter... I don’t see how it’s terrible for high play either. They seem to be doing just fine handling the mechanic. I have yet to hear a single pro complain about Break Hold. Also, if you’re arguing to make the game more unbalanced, then I’m sorry but your opinion doesn’t matter.

Baiting someone is still a guess. Its still random because you don't know how they are going to react and you're taking a risk that shouldn't even exist because if they do nothing now you have to deal with the wake up game and have officially lost all your momentum. You placed them in an unholdable stun. Why should you have to continue to make reads after already beating them in neutral and stun? That's not a good design competitively, and its an even worse design logically. It makes FSDS almost completely pointless because it will be rare that someone has no meter and its usually just for one round before they quickly get it back. Its a no skill mechanic that takes only 50% meter and requires zero reads to the situation as it holds all hit levels. All you have to look out for is an attack animation. Its so easy to avoid being thrown while in a fatal stun unless you just panic mash it which good players wont do.

Oh oh oh!
We're already on the "I kicked your ass in-game so I'm right and you're wrong" argument!
Grabbing some popcorn meanwhile xD

Ya well, when someone you beat easily tells you to adapt instead of making an actual argument that's gonna happen. He's hasn't made any actual counter argument on why its a good thing.

 

[MegaMegaMike]

Baiting someone is still a guess. Its still random because you don't know how they are going to react and you're taking a risk that shouldn't even exist because if they do nothing now you have to deal with the wake up game and have officially lost all your momentum. You placed them in an unholdable stun. Why should you have to continue to make reads after already beating them in neutral and stun? That's not a good design competitively, and its an even worse design logically. It makes FSDS almost completely pointless because it will be rare that someone has no meter and its usually just for one round before they quickly get it back. Its a no skill mechanic that takes only 50% meter and requires zero reads to the situation as it holds all hit levels. All you have to look out for is an attack animation. Its so easy to avoid being thrown while in a fatal stun unless you just panic mash it which good players wont do.



Ya well, when someone you beat easily tells you to adapt instead of making an actual argument that's gonna happen. He's hasn't made any actual counter argument on why its a good thing.

Why should I try to convince someone who goes around whining and starting arguments everywhere? Again, I don’t think I saw your name ever when I played. If you can’t handle people guessing and using holds, then I havebnewd for you: this is DOA. It’s the entire point of the game’s system. Break Homds are a risk, just like every other hold. I argue that they are balanced, because they are, that they add to the game’s depth, because they do, and they’ll help new players get started, because they will. How about get off your high horse and stop arguing with people. I gave my opinion of the game, and then got harassed by you for how long now?

 

[deathofaninja]

I am working on my review for DOA6, so most of my impressions will be in that. DOA6 is a solid game seeing as how Shimbori worked two jobs during the development cycle for it, and Nioh 2, DOAX: Scarlet plus Ultimate Alliance on Team NINJA's docket. Though I admit, I do not know how deeply involved they are in with Ultimate Alliance and DOAX: Scarlet.

Think most of us can agree that all DOA games are fun, but unfortunately DOA6 feels like it truly is in the starting stages of its life and DOA5 felt more realized at launch. I think the honest critics that felt underwhelmed with DOA6 were genuinely disappointed that the game didn't get that final coat of gameplay polish that could have made it a stand-out 3D fighter to everyone.

The game needed a longer delay than it got, but it wasn't possible according to Team NINJA. I can definitely see the Ultimate version coming out sooner than DOA5s. Overall, I still enjoy DOA6 a great deal, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say that it's better than DOA5 out of the gate even if a lot of the characters play better than they did before.

 

[Raansu]

If you can’t handle people guessing and using holds, then I havebnewd for you: this is DOA. It’s the entire point of the game’s system.

This is entirely untrue. Outside of DoA4, DoA has always had scenarios/stuns that you could not escape from.

[

]Break Homds are a risk, just like every other hold. I argue that they are balanced, because they are, that they add to the game’s depth, because they do, and they’ll help new players get started, because they will. How about get off your high horse and stop arguing with people. I gave my opinion of the game, and then got harassed by you for how long now?

None of this is an argument. You haven't mentioned in one way how its actually a good thing mechanically and having conversation about a mechanic that I feel is a poor mechanic is not "getting on my high horse." You were the one that initiated that with the whole adapt thing while not even making a legitimate counter argument other than "its good because it is."

but I'm not going to lie to myself and say that it's better than DOA5 out of the gate even if a lot of the characters play better than they did before.

I do not think it is either better or worse. There are aspects about DoA5 that were awful and there were aspects of it that were fantastic. Personally my only major complaint in DoA5 was the DoA4 stun system as far as system mechanics go. If we had DoA5's core mechanics/stun properties with sit down stuns having the fatal stun mechanic with DoA6's stun threshold changes and no meter mechanics, sprinkle in some frame advantage/guard break/free step mechanics that 3.1 had and we'd have the perfect DoA game.

DoA6.... Its still DoA and there are many aspects I like which I mentioned earlier, but the one aspect I think is awful is the break hold and I will continue to make my feelings about it known just like I did about the stun system in DoA5. Will it change? Probably not, but when (not if) the ultimate comes out I would like to see revisions made to the break hold system, which imo is the one thing holding this game back from otherwise great mechanics. Its also the one mechanic that will imo keep many players from other communities away from the game and continue the stigma of it being a scrub fighter. Whether people like it or not, we need the other communities to pick DoA up for it to grow. DoA5 community grew a lot compared to past DoA's, but it stagnated hard.

 

[MegaMegaMike]

This is entirely untrue. Outside of DoA4, DoA has always had scenarios/stuns that you could not escape from.

[

None of this is an argument. You haven't mentioned in one way how its actually a good thing mechanically and having conversation about a mechanic that I feel is a poor mechanic is not "getting on my high horse." You were the one that initiated that with the whole adapt thing while not even making a legitimate counter argument other than "its good because it is."

And you were the one who decided to attack my opinion and start an argument. I’m done talking with you. A brick wall would make for a better conversation, and would also not bitch about a mechanic that is totally fine. I’ve labeled my thoughts on it clearly. The mechanic gives the game more defense, is perfectly balanced as a risk/reward, is easy to understand and use for newcomers, and pros can pay attention and bait them for bigger damage. DOA6 is still full of unholdable moments, like Fatal Stun when the opponent has meter, or juggling. But you’ll just trash both of those points immediately and keep whining anyway. Accept the game, or move on. And more importantly, leave me alone

 

[Raansu]

And you were the one who decided to attack my opinion and start an argument.

I didn't attack your opinion. I made an argument towards a statement in your post that was clearly directed at my initial post.

The mechanic gives the game more defense,

In what way is this a good thing? Why do you need more defense options after losing in both the neutral and the stun game and failing to read/hold the fatal stun?? How is this in any way a good thing? This was literally the core problem with DoA4. Everyone played the same and you could escape out of every scenario. Risk vs reward was totally skewed. DoA5 addressed this by adding stuns you could not hold out of....stuns of which you can now hold out of in DoA6 (Bass 44p, Janns 4h+k, Hitomi's 46k.....the list goes on and on. The game went backwards in this sense.)

 

[Akumasama]

Ya well, when someone you beat easily tells you to adapt instead of making an actual argument that's gonna happen. He's hasn't made any actual counter argument on why its a good thing.

Honestly I think that has nothing to do with it and bringing the "I beat you" argument on a completely unrelated online discussion sounds very childish from my point of view.
Maybe I'm wrong hey, just sharing how it looks to me from where I'm standing right now.

 

[d3v]

Losing 60-80 percent of your health off of one throw or counter can be a bit frustrating. Sidestep attacking is also super aids, sure you can punish it if they throw it out haphazardly but you can literally do an attack while people are mid combo, sometimes even if you are being hit by said combo. It really just destroys the flow of the game. It's a little bit too strong. Some of the maps with shit tons of environmental hazards can be obnoxious (the street fight one, the pirate ship, chinese fireworks). Otherwise the game is pretty good.

If people are sidestepping out of a "combo", then it wasn't a combo in the first place.

 

[Raansu]

Honestly I think that has nothing to do with it and bringing the "I beat you" argument on a completely unrelated online discussion sounds very childish from my point of view.
Maybe I'm wrong hey, just sharing how it looks to me from where I'm standing right now.

It probably is, but telling me to "adapt" instead of having an actual debate or counter argument pissed me off. I've never cared for that comment. I've never told anyone to adapt. If someone genuinely thinks something is broken then fine, lets talk about it. Maybe they have a point I don't see, maybe they don't. Telling someone to adapt is a cop out to a debate and in some cases generally ignoring something that actually needs to be changed because they don't want their character to be nerfed (which I totally get. Overwatch for example I didn't want Roadhog to get nerfed, but he was definitely broken with a 6s chain and OHK on like 90% of the cast)

If people are sidestepping out of a "combo", then it wasn't a combo in the first place.

You can easily free cancel your string into a SS. I catch people doing it all the time. Hell I do it to people who try to trade during a free cancel. You knew what he meant man.

 

[d3v]

Define combo cuz DoA really doesn't have those. You can easily free cancel your string into a SS. I catch people doing it all the time. Hell I do it to people who try to trade during a free cancel. You knew what meant man.

Combo is anytime an opponent is in hit stun and the next move hits them before they come out of it.

If some SSed out, then that means they recovered out of hit stun.

 

[Raansu]

Combo is anytime an opponent is in hit stun and the next move hits them before they come out of it.

If some SSed out, then that means they recovered out of hit stun.

I mean...not really. Its just a string whether you're in stun or out. There's no set combos in DoA like in Tekken where if you get hit with a combo you're just done. Well not done, but your combo is your combo. You're pretty much along for the ride, where as DoA in stun or out of stun you're constantly free canceling strings to avoid/bait holds.

 

[prototypetom]

I feel like the most important fundamentals are overall good - the fighting. I'd make tweaks break blow system especially. I wouldn't presume to comment on its balancing, I'm not that guy, but it's getting a bit old already. it needs some variety visually, the chance of something unusual.

And that's my big gripe about the game - it feels like it was made by some folks who know how to put a great fighting game together - but absolutely clueless about the universal game elements... content, unlocking, grind and reward. But also in how data is presented, how menus work... alot of its fine but there's huge snags and oversights throughout. and missing features!!!! odd graphic fails (the street texture as you fall in Chinese Festival!!!)

The very best thing about the game is the learning aspects. the way tutorials and quests and data and... well as a casual level player, thats all been fantastic. I feel like i got better at DOA6 in a week than i did a month in DOA5, easily.

Its like a nice cake with no icing. I keep looking at Lisa's outfits and being painfully aware of how much worse this iteration is on costumes than previous. we have this row of slots and absolutely F.All do do with them as far as i can tell. And the stages are getting dull already! So many missed opportunities (i want to yell everytime i don't fall in the water slide )

A robust step forward fighting-wise (for launch build) - but as a package its honestly inferior to DOA5 vanilla - and really they needed it to be at least comparable to launch LR to feel like value.

Fighting 8.5/10 brilliant
experiential stuff 3.5/10 sloppy
Learning stuff 9.5/10 really outstanding
Value and content 2/10 very poor.

There's a lot they could feasably put right - but the DLC pricing suggests they're RUNNING in the wrong direction.

But still very happy playing it and no regrets about supporting it... it just isn't what it should be

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

Break Holds are the doa equivalent of Superman throwing his S at you.

 

[Brute]

Baiting someone is still a guess. Its still random because you don't know how they are going to react

By this logic, every single action taken outside of guaranteed punishment is a guess. So every fighting game is dominated by 90% guessing.

This is entirely untrue. Outside of DoA4, DoA has always had scenarios/stuns that you could not escape from.

This is entirely untrue. All the DOA games have had scenarios that you could not escape from, including DOA4 and DOA6. They're called "launches."

 

[Raansu]

By this logic, every single action taken outside of guaranteed punishment is a guess. So every fighting game is dominated by 90% guessing.

Except not really. Most fighters yes the RPS is in the neutral game, but generally once you're hit that's it. Your combo is your combo. In doa you play RPS in neutral, rps in stun and now even more rps in stun because doa6 removed the unholdable stuns and then added a specific unholdable mechanic, but decided to go backwards and add a mechanic that lets you escape it. Pointless.

This is entirely untrue. All the DOA games have had scenarios that you could not escape from, including DOA4 and DOA6. They're called "launches."

Ya great, launchers....meanwhile you have multiple chances to avoid being launched, especially now in 6 with them removing unholdable stuns where as doa5, ya the stun game was horrible, but there where tons of scenarios where you only had to guess one time and the rest of the setup was guaranteed. Most of the stuns are so damn short in doa6 you have to extend it at least once leading to giving the opponent several guesses on top of having a no read hold. That's not a good design.

 

[d3v]

I mean...not really. Its just a string whether you're in stun or out. There's no set combos in DoA like in Tekken where if you get hit with a combo you're just done. Well not done, but your combo is your combo. You're pretty much along for the ride, where as DoA in stun or out of stun you're constantly free canceling strings to avoid/bait holds.

Which is similar in concept to how you deal with combo breakers in KI - and that game lets you break in the air. In fact, it's also a similar concept to baiting bursts in anime games. Heck we even have a direct burst analog now with BH.

Besides, the point still stands. If someone SSs out of a string, then there wasn't enough hitstun (which is different from stun) to make it a combo in the first place.

 

[Brute]

Except not really. Most fighters yes the RPS is in the neutral game, but generally once you're hit that's it. Your combo is your combo. In doa you play RPS in neutral, rps in stun and now even more rps in stun because doa6 removed the unholdable stuns and then added a specific unholdable mechanic, but decided to go backwards and add a mechanic that lets you escape it. Pointless.

Some people need to reframe the way they think about stuns. They're halfway points between guaranteed damage combos and frame traps, and when done well, the risk/reward/chance of success reflects that. Granted there are some egregious offenders on both ends (some stuns are way too deep for how easy and risk-free they are, whereas others are very hand to land and don't provide a properly scaled benefit), but that goes into case-by-case nuance. It's not something you can just easily dismiss with some blanketed, fundamental statement about how not guaranteeing damage in all stun cases is universally bad or is tantamount to guessing when other prediction-based scenarios aren't.

Ya great, launchers....meanwhile you have multiple chances to avoid being launched, especially now in 6 with them removing unholdable stuns where as doa5, ya the stun game was horrible, but there where tons of scenarios where you only had to guess one time and the rest of the setup was guaranteed. Most of the stuns are so damn short in doa6 you have to extend it at least once leading to giving the opponent several guesses on top of having a no read hold. That's not a good design.

You can launch from NH if you want to avoid the stun game. It's riskier, obviously, but higher guaranteed damage typically is. Philosophically, that's not bad game design.

 

[d3v]

I mean, back before launch, Matt and Cow were all saying that we're back to "stun-launch". That's been what I've been doing so far and it's been giving me decent damage so far. Once I get the stun, I go straight into either a mid or high launcher (or a low string that ends in a launch), into a juggle and ground bounce.

 

[MegaMegaMike]

I mean, back before launch, Matt and Cow were all saying that we're back to "stun-launch". That's been what I've been doing so far and it's been giving me decent damage so far. Once I get the stun, I go straight into either a mid or high launcher (or a low string that ends in a launch), into a juggle and ground bounce.

It’s almost like you’re playing DOA6 instead of DOA5

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

i feel like some characters were stripped down to nothing but close hit combos(which i personally find Incredibly boring) and every creative combo they use to have is not even possibly anymore or still is but does less damage so it's a waste of time to even do them... And then characters like Leon and Genfu who would've played well with the close hit style of juggling arent even here lmao...

Like for example, Kasumi's teleport combos into the 236P is.... so un-Kasumi stylistically... like if you Had to give her one let her forward teleport into a close hit elbow after the bound. I just dont get the reasoning for that ugly finisher lol

The netcode is still wonky, i hope when lobbies finally arrive if it's gonna lag then just lag, dont stop the whole damn match, it's so irritating to be just booted to the menu. Shit, it'll do this even when the fight isnt lagging, it's weird.

I dont personally hate Break Holds but... the way they happen really is so sudden and kinda throws me off tbh...

Everything else i hate, is pretty much universally hated like the Costume pattern parts etc(OH OH, when you get a new costume that's available to purchase, can we have a "NEW" symbol put on the character so i dont have to look at literally everyone to find it, cuz i dont remember shit lol)