DOAD Tier List Discussion

Jaguar360

Well-Known Member
I've been playing DOA Dimensions extensively, so I'm going to talk about some characters and their positions on the tier list.
Summary:
As a whole, Tengu has a lot of trouble getting in since he is so slow and unsafe. However, Tengu does have some nice tools at his disposal. His throw punish game is just incredible with 4T being a solid 8 frame throw doing 60 damage, 2T a 4 frame throw that does 70 damage and takes great advantage of ceilings, electric floors and cliffs, and his flying stance throws, which are surprisingly easy to pull off since they are so quick at 5 frames. The flying throws are quite handy for punishing those who guard after tech rolls and punishing low wake-up kicks. 7KP is one of Tengu's fastest moves but it is probably the least safe move in the game, so it can only be used sparingly. 1P+K is nice for getting frame advantage and evading highs, but it takes a long time to charge at 45 frames, so its use is also somewhat limited. 2H+K and H+K are also notable moves for Tengu and are fairly quick and capable of launching into an air throw, but they are still unsafe on block. Tengu's best launchers are H+K, 3P and 8K, H+K being the quickest and most reliable, but it is a high and hits the wall. 3P is just useful because it is a mid and it can be used against a wall, but it is still on the slow side. 8K is not all that useful aside from being able to be used against a wall, as it often misses in stuns, is slow and is outclassed by H+K in general. Air throws are usually easy to get from these, but Tengu will whiff the air throw if the opponent is launched too high or if the opponent is launched too low (usually as a heavyweight). The sumo stop (4H+K) has a helpful use of providing pressure during a stun, getting from advantage on block or a ground bounce that can be comboed off of on hit.
Character Matchups:
:hayabusa: 3-7 - Tengu has a really hard time getting in on Busa because of Ryu's speed and Tengu's sluggishness and unsafety. Tengu relies on throw punishing to beat Ryu, but Ryu's throw pressure with the Izuna Otoshi can discourage blocking from Tengu, so he can easily be taken advantage of. Furthermore, Tengu often relies on high punches like P+K, PPP and 8PPP, which can be brutally punished by the Senko Izuna. Thus, Tengu relies on 7K, H+K and 2+K to get in on Hayabusa, all of which are unsafe and can be punished by Ryu's 6T, 214T or even the Izuna Drop in some cases. Tengu really has to fight for a win in this matchup.
:genfu:4-6 - Tengu has an easier time against Gen Fu than he does against Hayabusa, but Gen still has the advantage overall thanks to the speed of his punches, his parries and his safety. However, Tengu can often use the parries to his advantage with Flying T and is not too afraid of Gen Fu's throws to block and punish or use 66T. Since Tengu on has one good low (2H+K), Tengu is still relatively easy to parry despite the fear of his powerful throws and Gen Fu doesn't really mind Tengu being a heavyweight since Gen Fu can still use 6PPP as a combo ender most of the time, which keeps Tengu close.
:hayate: 3-7 Hayate is one of Tengu's worst matchups, if not then Alpha. Hayate is just so fast in this game and really good at providing pressure with the advantage he gets on his combo enders and force techs/psuedo force techs. Tengu is pretty much helpless in stun and must make really good predictions to get out and not take a crapload of damage. Tengu relies on throwing out 7K and 2H+K when predicting a strike or throw and getting damage whenever he can. Hayate's speed, unpredictably in stun and overall solidness make this matchup a nightmare for Tengu.
:kasumi: 3-7 Kasumi is another really bad matchup for Tengu. She has nearly all the things Tengu hates: speed, parries, pressure, a good throw game and great movement. However, she is unsafe for the most part, so the block-and-punish strategy still works. At the neutral game, Tengu is at a great disadvantage though he has ways to get around Kasumi, either by blocking, using 2H+K to evade a jab or circumvent a high parry, 7KP to beat 1PP and some mids, and 66T to beat some slower strikes from Kasumi and her parries. Kasumi will win most of the time however and keeps the pressure going throughout the game with ocassional force techs, good throws like 33T, speedy strikes, her 4P+K guard break and 9K to evade wake-up kicks or put Tengu at a disadvantage.
Placement on the tier list:
Tengu is pretty deserving of D rank on the tier list, as he is about on par with Brad and Bass and generally has poor matchups thanks to poor speed and a plethora of unsafe moves. However, he, like Bass and Brad, is still very much usable and is capable of pushing his way through the cast.
I'm far from finished with this, as I still need to go through the rest of Tengu's matchups and talk about other characters. (I have a lot to say about Alpha's low placement)

And can someone tell me why Kasumi Alpha is so high on the tier list? From what I've gathered, she's just an inferior Kasumi. The only thing I know she has over her is that her 3H+K actually launches and her 33K is better than Kasumi's, but apart from that, her parry is worse, she is weaker, her combo potential is worse, she doesn't have any guard breaks apart from 9PK, whereas Kasumi has 4P+K to put on pressure, her throws are the same, she doesn't have limbo stuns like Kasumi's H+K...what are her advantages besides speed? She seems like she should fall to B rank or even C rank.
 
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Nightpup

Well-Known Member
Honestly I no longer understand why Alpha is so low on DOAD's tier list. Compare her to current DOA5U. She's a MONSTER.

As for Kasumi Alpha... she's definitely not an inferior Kasumi. In fact, I'm hesitant to compare her to Kasumi at all given the differences they have. K-Alpha has more mixups and over-all speed than Kasumi does. All her moves, on average, are faster than, or the same speed as, Kasumi's. And honestly I'd say that K-Alpha's parry is actually better than Kasumi's, simply because she can follow up with 9K for a monster launch.

Genra is still the best character in the game though.
 

xhuntressx

Member
Agreed with Pup there. Kasumi Alpha is almost, if not just, as good as Kasumi imo as well.

Since I guess I'm the Kokoro rep for DoA: D, here goes nothing.

Kokoro:

v. Ayane 4-6. Ayane is a monster in this game, and Kokoro's lack of a low crush only hurts even more. 66P is your best tool against this purple-haired monster, but that can be easily blocked or countered. Ayane can also easily spin away from this. You cannot mix this up with another mid because of the hold system, which means you're forced to use her mid ranged tools such as 33P or 46P, both of ch are highs which Ayane can easily go under. Kokoro also does not have a response to Ayane's BT ranged backroll into a mid kick or throw mixup, which can be a pain in the butt offline and online since it is impossible to react to and is pure guessing.

v. Kasumi 4-6. Kasumi wins the speed matchup, and has her 236T which absolutely wrecks and positions the opponent how the Kasumi player seems fit. Her damage in the game also adds up quite quickly, and those parries work very well against every single option Kokoro has to get in.

v. Tengu 7-3. Not much needs to be said here. Speed, mixup, stun game, neutral game, you name it... Tengu, for lack of a better word, sucks.

v. Hayabusa 4-6. Hayabusa has better mixups, low sweeps which leave him at advantage, the Izuna, and a faster mid (I think). He has more defensive options than Kokoro, but they can easily go about even offensively.

v. Eliot 5-5. Both of them are linear. Eliot has some nice deeps stuns which Kokoro lacks, but Kokoro definitely wins in the mixup game. Kokoro has a much faster mid and throw mixups, whereas Eliot has a very nice low kick leading into a launcher, the first of which ducks highs. He also has a launching throw, whereas Kokoro has 214T. Kokoro wins the spacing and neutral game, but its not enough to put her at major advantage.

Will add to or expand on this later. Apologies in advance for grammar mistakes, its late.
 

SilverForte

Well-Known Member
Kasmui alpha has a much better approach option with her 66p, her 3 h+k launcher better as well, better 33k, her 6pk is way better, so she has some tools over normal kasumi, I'd say her parry is better as well. Oh and she can actually get 7k after a kk launch.

As for best character in the game, it's either Genra or Hitomi imo, Hitomi is really good in this game.
 

Jaguar360

Well-Known Member
Kasmui alpha has a much better approach option with her 66p, her 3 h+k launcher better as well, better 33k, her 6pk is way better, so she has some tools over normal kasumi, I'd say her parry is better as well. Oh and she can actually get 7k after a kk launch.

As for best character in the game, it's either Genra or Hitomi imo, Hitomi is really good in this game.
I still think the best is Ryu or Hayate as a whole, but Genra and Hitomi are definitely top tier IMO.
I haven't had time to update my list at the top of the page, but I'll continue eventually. School sucks.
 

SilverForte

Well-Known Member
Ryus alright, his doa4 1k and izuna damage was lowered, still high tier though.

Genra just does too much damage, best throw in the game, he's better than hayate.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Kasmui alpha has a much better approach option with her 66p, her 3 h+k launcher better as well, better 33k, her 6pk is way better, so she has some tools over normal kasumi, I'd say her parry is better as well. Oh and she can actually get 7k after a kk launch.

As for best character in the game, it's either Genra or Hitomi imo, Hitomi is really good in this game.
Honestly I no longer understand why Alpha is so low on DOAD's tier list. Compare her to current DOA5U. She's a MONSTER.

As for Kasumi Alpha... she's definitely not an inferior Kasumi. In fact, I'm hesitant to compare her to Kasumi at all given the differences they have. K-Alpha has more mixups and over-all speed than Kasumi does. All her moves, on average, are faster than, or the same speed as, Kasumi's. And honestly I'd say that K-Alpha's parry is actually better than Kasumi's, simply because she can follow up with 9K for a monster launch.

Genra is still the best character in the game though.
I actually disagree, Kasumi herself is faster than Alpha since a few of her moves like KK got speed adjustments and refinements to the animations. I say Kasumi overall is slightly better than Alpha, she has more options and strings than Alpha does and slightly better reach with some quicker moves, like her 6P, and her 8P imo is better at mid range.

Alpha does have some tools tho that Kasumi could have kept in Dimensions, like Alpha has a better 6PK, has Kasumi's 6K and 4H+K and her stuns were better since her P+K and 3PP didn't need a CH to stun, and she can basically do most of Kasumi's moves without having to be tied to strings which I think hurt Kasumi. Overall I think it depends on taste, Alpha is the Kasumi you'll want if you want better easier counter hit tools and Kasumi herself is more suited for people who want better mix ups and a more threatening stun game. I prefer Kasumi @ since she plays more like how DOA5-6 Kasumi played, the regular Kasumi plays more like a gimped Phase in Dimensions imo but I'm glad they merged both Kasumi and her 2U moveset into one so she can play either way.

TLDR:

Kasumi's high 6PP<Alpha's mid 6PP2K

Kasumi's 6P>Alpha's 6P but Alpha's options are better(6PK and 6P2K)

Alpha's 33K>>Kasumi's 33K(Way safer in open space)

Alpha's high 8P<Kasumi's mid 8P(safe and stun on NH and better reach)




I disagree with Genra being the best in the game tho, he's far too slow. He has good tools for if he has the opponent locked out at mid and far range which is good and he does have that throw, but all of that will basically crumble if the player is way faster than Genra and if they manage to get him near a wall, and that would definitely happen often with Dimensions stage selection although I think he'd fair better in LR or 6. He also lacks defensive tools too and doesn't have really any ways to crush or really best opponents rushing him up close, I feel like Mai and Kula are examples of far better designed zoner/keep out characters, Mai especially since she has the range and power and projectile and stuns to really make her a nuisance and she's pretty good at crushing too.
 
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SilverForte

Well-Known Member
Genra is pretty polarizing. He def struggles vs chars who can just stay in his face all day, but he only really needs one good read to come back.
 
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