Sup guys. It's been about a month now. I want to know what everyone is thinking of Hayate at this point. Maybe giving your input on how he's sitting on the tier list in YOUR eyes(high, mid, low), what moves you like from him, what you don't like, what you want back, what should be safe or unsafe, etc.
My personal opinion is he's... good? I mained him in 4 like some others did and he was great in that one... mid heavy(Still), but if he got that stun game on you...you're in for a little pain. His mid-ranged game is still pretty hardcore. Up close he's... a lot less of a threat. I find that people spam mid punch counters become a problem for me though. Makes me have to utilize his pp strings a bit more, and also 9PP, which is great as a 2 in 1, but I love just stunning with it instead sometimes.
His low game is terrible. Though 2k can trip on counter hit, I miss it's follow up that was a mid kick. Also he lost 1kp and 1kk. 1kk is less of a problem because 1pk is virtually the same string but 1k was almost an unseeable low. Mix that up with 3k and you've got something going since the motion is similar. On top of I think he should have mixups like Ein did from 1k. I talk about it in
my own topic with my pre-release thoughts on him from watching people like Allan P, and Chosen1 play him though I have altered the topic since then.
His new 1k is good in the stun game but useless to me stand alone, I'd like that move back in the wind dash for some long ranged stun game... hell I'd like to have his old wind dash(236f)back in, in general, because it was so good, especially 236f~66. Maybe they'll add it back.
Also all of his juggles are... well... exactly the same... There's nothing new. The newest thing is using 4k6k in a juggle as well as 66kkk(which use to be available off of his Mid kick hold launcher, still is but you've probably got better options.
The new raijin(aka Nakiryu from doa3), sucks... Ok ok it's got low damage, but it can wall splat, and if you don't finish it, you get a free super high launcher to a cool follow up like
,
. I think that he should get his old raijin back maybe with some circle inputs like Hayabusa's or just a simpler version of the other one(even though it wasn't that hard, xbox controllers suck).
Also 3H+KKP is apparently the best shit to hit the competitive scene in DOA5(even though it's better in 4 because it was delayable). People hate this. I don't know why. I've known how to deal with it for... like forever now, and on top of that you can punish at the first move by sidestepping and attacking or free stepping and attacking... anyway... it's good shit shenanigans, not as powerful shenanigans but still nice.
Wind Dash. Good Pressure with the high punch block breaker. I spam it on people who know what they're dealing with and if they don't know. Connect it with their block then have fun hitting anything you want right after that since it's +7.(Dat 3 frame jab).
The other followups seldom come out for me. The mid kick launcher has nice range and often times if you whiff the first kick, the second will connect because once people feel that whiff their reaction is to rush in... sometimes they're too far away ever still to get a juggle. It also doesn't jail if I remember correctly so if they stop blocking after the first kick, they can still get launched by the second one.
The shoryuken should've stayed a charge move, maybe a block breaker with significant advantage, like Eliot's 4F+K is, while retaining it's launch properties, and getting back it's flip properties on a full charged hit, I'd love that... but I can deal with it being in his wind dash for now, it still looks bad ass.
The grab should be an offensive hold honestly. It's not very useful, because most people like to test their fate and interrupt the dash. It's good tactics but It'd atleast make the grab more viable. It's a sweet ass Oboro animation, it should be useful.
His charged moves aren't great honestly. Everything reverts back to the elbow. 66P+K, 4P+K, 66PP, PP6P, PPPP, and 9PP. It's honestly frustrating. They're all +1 which doesn't do anything for you against characters like Kasumi(at best, you'll clash with her jab). I'll have to look more into it.
I think we all established 236k should be +5 instead of -5 and no guard break. It'd make an actual point of me using the move(especially since I end up buffering out a 9k most of the time, so it'd be an actual point to use it.
If you're not poking with 236p, shame on you. It's pretty safe. If you want them to stop locking up and blocking, throw this out, chances are they'll attempt to punish and fail.
Also 4KK, It's kind of a great move... Not sure if it measures up to 4F+K.
His SS K/F+K should stagger stun. It launches on all hits, and it's small enough of a launch that you can't get anything off of it except maybe a ground punch. I'd rather it stagger them away like Hitomi's 46K.
My opinion on 214k is that... it's much too slow to have a place in the fight other than as a move to scare someone. I don't think it tracks so, that's 32+frames of you vulnerable. It is +1, but what's the point if you don't land it. Same goes for 33KK. 33KK has applications in combos though.
The new 33T, is a nice animation, though I do miss the only one even still. I just wish they made him land correctly instead of making a whole new animation. Also since he now gets a guaranteed 7K off of his flip over grab(236T), he's got usage in all of them. Hopefully mix-ups become an option with that instead of just the guaranteed 72 damage.
Overall I can have fun with him... but I can't really say that I want to compete with him. He's lacking in the low game, his guard breaks don't really give him the option to put on any pressure since his 12 frame punishers are unsafe(unless you follow up 6p with k for -7, but still grab punishable), and he doesn't have 13 frame punishers, or 15. That really means you can't be flexible with punishing on him. You either have to interrupt with 7k, 6p(which if you screw up is unsafe on block and you can't delay 6pk anymore so you'll be stuck). Anything afte that is probably better punished with 236T~7k, or 8k if it's that unsafe. 8k launches on NH, so it makes sense to toss it out and get a pp6pk. PP6PK is probably gunna be your most damaging juggle. I think PP6PP might be a bit stronger though... i think by 2 points.